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Might as well call it WSB!

Joined Jul 2007
153 Posts | 0+
England
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...s_be_sold?.html

Oh dear, if these ideas are implemented there won't be a Motogp any more, just two kinds of WSB.

I know the point the guys are trying to make, but thats what WSB is about, production models. We don't have Renault selling us a single seater car, just because they want to race in F1.

I'd rather the current teams, just sell their old bikes on to privateer teams, like they used to. I know, ok, that they would probably be off the pace compared to the latest factory bikes. But it'd allow, new teams, sponsors and riders into the paddock. And surely it'd benefit the manufacturers by having more exposure and they'd be able to get a bit of money back on their previous years bikes.
 
they wish it was as good as WSBK...we wouldn't be having this debate if do
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That article read like one of Lex’s many self-produced, pseudo-insight rants on; ‘ ______________’(insert topic here) explanation or solution to some MotoGP/political issue. This weak article smacks of desperation and clutching at straws for some half-assed quick-fix. The mismanagement and fundamental loss of vision of what the series was suppose to be has compromised it viability. This article seems to reflect the reality that they don’t know what the hell to do to fix it (though, I’m sure the author doesn’t speak for the minds that are Dorna/FIM).

I’ve read better posts on this site than this wannabe industry-insider journalist’s attempt to aspire a well thought out solution to the problem at hand. Everything this clown proposed is equally ill-fated as the mismanagement that these short-term profit businessmen (who have made millions at the expense of taking the series to the brink of extinction) have done to get MotoGP into this mess. Lets not forget, MotoGP has been enormously successful at creating revenue for Dorna (fact jack); the problem is this obscene mount of profit has not translated into a great product for us the spectators NOR the participants.

This happened because the backroom deals were done on the principle of milking & appeasing their cash cow, the darlings of the sport and powerbrokers, rather than working in a timely manner to produce a sustainable product. In parallel, this is exactly what the banks have done to create this economic mess. The banks made obscene amounts of revenue while replacing all of their efforts into ‘marketing’ while NOT tending to sound principles of good banking. Some of you kids here may not remember the days where you walked into a bank and the clerk to the branch manager could give you strait talk on the viability of a loan or investment. They actually checked to see if the loan or investment made sense as a partner in the deal toward mutual success with their clients. In the last decade now, when you walk into a bank, most everybody there doesn’t know .... about the principles of banking, but they have their sales pitch memorized to get you into some bank credit card, bank promotion, a ‘free t-shirt if you sign up for’…ect.; this is because all the emphasis is on ‘marketing’. This paradigm shift has happened in all forms of business; we can see its effect in MotoGP today! I know this isn’t very popular with the fans of the darlings of the sport, but the backroom deals that have happened in the last few years were geared to cater to the cult following and influence by the darlings/power brokers of the sport. The parallel of MotoGP’s situation holds true as in government, which legislated via the influence of strong lobbyists to do their bidding. Just like in MotoGP, all of the rules changes and special treatment has been brokered to this end, despite the ........ reason they feed to the public. Again, just as in government, when they say it’s in the interest of “safety” or “expansion of economy”, when in reality its about the benefit to a small group of businessmen who stand to make a grip of money.

Just look how the tire situation and capacity change unfolded in the last two years. The number one ‘reason/excuse/buzzword’ they fed us was the changes were need/awarded for “safety” and “parity” (in the case of tires). The truth has begun to bubble to the surface with the data that 800s are indeed faster where it’s most ‘unsafe’; in addition, the biggest draw has been restored. However, the discerning spectator can see the truth behind these recent changes. The fact of the matter is that most MotoGP fans and fans of ‘the biggest draw’ are one in the same (I can imagine some backlash from his fans on this one, SBI). The problem is this was unsustainable!

Aiding and abetting, as in the world, has been the media, which were suppose to challenge the prudence of MotoGP’s decisions. They have failed to give paramount audience to those who opposed these rules changes and ‘favoritism’ which have led to its present critical mass. (Perhaps the answer can be found by a glance at the t-shirts in a MotoGP media room).

Notwithstanding, I hope the self-created ‘crisis’ will be a catalyst to return to sound management principles of putting a good sustainable product back into the field. However, if this article is any indication of what they are thinking about, they will further go away form the vision of what prototype racing is about.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 12 2009, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That article read like one of Lex’s many self-produced, pseudo-insight rants on; ‘ ______________’(insert topic here) explanation or solution to some MotoGP/political issue. This weak article smacks of desperation and clutching at straws for some half-assed quick-fix. The mismanagement and fundamental loss of vision of what the series was suppose to be has compromised it viability. This article seems to reflect the reality that they don’t know what the hell to do to fix it (though, I’m sure the author doesn’t speak for the minds that are Dorna/FIM).

I’ve read better posts on this site than this wannabe industry-insider journalist’s attempt to aspire a well thought out solution to the problem at hand. Everything this clown proposed is equally ill-fated as the mismanagement that these short-term profit businessmen (who have made millions at the expense of taking the series to the brink of extinction) have done to get MotoGP into this mess. Lets not forget, MotoGP has been enormously successful at creating revenue for Dorna (fact jack); the problem is this obscene mount of profit has not translated into a great product for us the spectators NOR the participants.

This happened because the backroom deals were done on the principle of milking & appeasing their cash cow, the darlings of the sport and powerbrokers, rather than working in a timely manner to produce a sustainable product. In parallel, this is exactly what the banks have done to create this economic mess. The banks made obscene amounts of revenue while replacing all of their efforts into ‘marketing’ while NOT tending to sound principles of good banking. Some of you kids here may not remember the days where you walked into a bank and the clerk to the branch manager could give you strait talk on the viability of a loan or investment. They actually checked to see if the loan or investment made sense as a partner in the deal toward mutual success with their clients. In the last decade now, when you walk into a bank, most everybody there doesn’t know .... about the principles of banking, but they have their sales pitch memorized to get you into some bank credit card, bank promotion, a ‘free t-shirt if you sign up for’…ect.; this is because all the emphasis is on ‘marketing’. This paradigm shift has happened in all forms of business; we can see its effect in MotoGP today! I know this isn’t very popular with the fans of the darlings of the sport, but the backroom deals that have happened in the last few years were geared to cater to the cult following and influence by the darlings/power brokers of the sport. The parallel of MotoGP’s situation holds true as in government, which legislated via the influence of strong lobbyists to do their bidding. Just like in MotoGP, all of the rules changes and special treatment has been brokered to this end, despite the ........ reason they feed to the public. Again, just as in government, when they say it’s in the interest of “safety” or “expansion of economy”, when in reality its about the benefit to a small group of businessmen who stand to make a grip of money.

Just look how the tire situation and capacity change unfolded in the last two years. The number one ‘reason/excuse/buzzword’ they fed us was the changes were need/awarded for “safety” and “parity” (in the case of tires). The truth has begun to bubble to the surface with the data that 800s are indeed faster where it’s most ‘unsafe’; in addition, the biggest draw has been restored. However, the discerning spectator can see the truth behind these recent changes. The fact of the matter is that most MotoGP fans and fans of ‘the biggest draw’ are one in the same (I can imagine some backlash from his fans on this one, SBI). The problem is this was unsustainable!

Aiding and abetting, as in the world, has been the media, which were suppose to challenge the prudence of MotoGP’s decisions. They have failed to give paramount audience to those who opposed these rules changes and ‘favoritism’ which have led to its present critical mass. (Perhaps the answer can be found by a glance at the t-shirts in a MotoGP media room).

Notwithstanding, I hope the self-created ‘crisis’ will be a catalyst to return to sound management principles of putting a good sustainable product back into the field. However, if this article is any indication of what they are thinking about, they will further go away form the vision of what prototype racing is about.
Nuts made some interesting points in another thread where he goes on about approx costs and how much money dorna get from tv rights. they litterly kept all the money for themselves and invested .... all back in to keep it sustainable (just like the bankers) except they took what they never had in the first place.
mabe if the series does fold after a couple of seasons due to the depression it will come back after without the greedy spanierds and we may get the lights of kenny back with some true prototypes and good racing.
 
Interesting post Junkie. I agree there are some similarities with banking, the latest was the separation with Eursport. That might hurt them badly. It will be interesting to see the viewer numbers outside their key markets as they will drop steeply. Wonder what that will do to the allready bad sponsor situation. But where you blindly keep stabing at favorism and 800's I would rather suggest that everyone went into the same trap and by that accellerated costs to stay in the race. A sustainable project is not one without rules and agreements and I don't know where the main costs are but I'm sure the factories know and only they can manage a healthy cost cut by agreeing on where to cut.

I can partly agree with you that it looks like there are someone around who are filling their pockets but marketing is a thing they haven't done enough and not by far good enough. That is a major key to make the series sustainable. Only with good viewer numbers can they make this thing to work and that takes more than close racing.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 12 2009, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nuts made some interesting points in another thread where he goes on about approx costs and how much money dorna get from tv rights. they litterly kept all the money for themselves and invested .... all back in to keep it sustainable (just like the bankers) except they took what they never had in the first place.
mabe if the series does fold after a couple of seasons due to the depression it will come back after without the greedy spanierds and we may get the lights of kenny back with some true prototypes and good racing.
Your damn straight! In light of what we all been talking about in the last three weeks, I'd say this is the: Post of the month.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 12 2009, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree there are some similarities with banking, the latest was the separation with Eursport. That might hurt them badly. It will be interesting to see the viewer numbers outside their key markets as they will drop steeply. Wonder what that will do to the allready bad sponsor situation.

But where you blindly keep stabing at favorism and 800's I would rather suggest that everyone went into the same trap and by that accellerated costs to stay in the race. A sustainable project is not one without rules and agreements and I don't know where the main costs are but I'm sure the factories know and only they can manage a healthy cost cut by agreeing on where to cut.
Fair enough.

As I said, I knew I'd catch some flack, I suppose my biases die hard. But you make good points none-the-less.
 
Which leads to the obvious question. Was Rossi really good for MotoGP or did his popularity destroy it.
Was the short term gain worth the alieanation of many fans who saw thru the transparant deal making to appease the masses.Im sure someone besides Rossi will walk away with 100's of millions in this deal but at what cost to the sport.Or do they really even care.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jan 13 2009, 03:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Which leads to the obvious question. Was Rossi really good for MotoGP or did his popularity destroy it.
Was the short term gain worth the alieanation of many fans who saw thru the transparant deal making to appease the masses.Im sure someone besides Rossi will walk away with 100's of millions in this deal but at what cost to the sport.Or do they really even care.
Oh please, put another record on ! i know you hate rossi but blaming him for this is a bit far fetched mate. Did rossi take all the Tv money ect ? Was is rossi that pushed for the 800 rule chang ? NO it wasn't !
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jan 13 2009, 04:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Which leads to the obvious question. Was Rossi really good for MotoGP or did his popularity destroy it.
Was the short term gain worth the alieanation of many fans who saw thru the transparant deal making to appease the masses.Im sure someone besides Rossi will walk away with 100's of millions in this deal but at what cost to the sport.Or do they really even care.

A front figure is seldom bad for the sport, besides Rossi stepped down the two pervious years and that should have satisfied all but the most devoted Rossi haters.
As for transparent deals, even if there were such deals only a very few devoted fans would take any notice and that would have about 0.00001% effect on the number of fans and followers of this sport.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 13 2009, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh please, put another record on ! i know you hate rossi but blaming him for this is a bit far fetched mate. Did rossi take all the Tv money ect ? Was is rossi that pushed for the 800 rule chang ? NO it wasn't !
The only blame rossi bears is that he caused ezy/dorna to believe the game was easy and that their role amounted to providing receptacles to collect the rivers of gold.

My prediction if as seems vaguely possible rossi is on a factory yamaha and stoner is on a factory ducati in wsbk in 2010 the much vaunted close racing in wsbk will be a memory with the only potential close racing for a win being between them; the rest of the field will be racing for the remaining positions.
 
If Rossi leaves motoGP in the next year or so the series is finished. Especially if he goes to WSBK.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Jan 13 2009, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Rossi leaves motoGP in the next year or so the series is finished. Especially if he goes to WSBK.
I think rossi (and stoner) would only go to wsbk if motogp is finished; as opposed to a guest ride or two for the challenge and for amusement rossi giving credence to wsbk by seriously chasing a wsbk championship would arguably cheapen his achievements in motogp to which he has devoted his adult life, and part of what would be adolescence for most people, thus far. You may not have been referring to my post, but I meant by saying it was vaguely possible that rossi could be racing in wsbk in 2010 that motogp might be defunct by then; I am not as pessimistic as you and some others but I don't think this is entirely impossible either.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jan 13 2009, 05:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think rossi (and stoner) would only go to wsbk if motogp is finished; as opposed to a guest ride or two for the challenge and for amusement rossi giving credence to wsbk by seriously chasing a wsbk championship would arguably cheapen his achievements in motogp to which he has devoted his adult life, and part of what would be adolescence for most people, thus far. You may not have been referring to my post, but I meant by saying it was vaguely possible that rossi could be racing in wsbk in 2010 that motogp might be defunct by then; I am not as pessimistic as you and some others but I don't think this is entirely impossible either.

you're a troll...
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 13 2009, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh please, put another record on ! i know you hate rossi but blaming him for this is a bit far fetched mate. Did rossi take all the Tv money ect ? Was is rossi that pushed for the 800 rule chang ? NO it wasn't !
Calm down big guy,Im not saying Rossi personally,im talking Rossi in general.His name could have been Smith or Jones or whatever.The question is, was Rossi , and all that went with him, good for the long term health of the sport..Jumkie was asking the same question,he didnt just ask the question as bluntly as i did.And again,i dont hate Rossi,I hate that one of the greatest sports in the world has been turned on its ear because they saw fit to cater to a cash cow as Jumkie put it.In the long run,i blame Dorna for not having the guts and foresight to run the series in a manner that didnt portray them as cash grabbing opportunist. Rossi just took advantge of Dorna's weakness,they treated him like he was bigger than the sport and he gladly took advantage of their weakness, like im sure most any competitor in any sport would have done.

By the way,whats up with that avatar,you join the Palestinian Movement or something.

You can throw Pedrosa's name in there also.What did it say to the fans when they allowed him to switch tires midway thru a season.It said what most believed,that the chickens,not the rooster, was in charge of the hen house.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jan 13 2009, 02:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Calm down big guy,Im not saying Rossi personally,im talking Rossi in general.His name could have been Smith or Jones or whatever.The question is, was Rossi , and all that went with him, good for the long term health of the sport..Jumkie was asking the same question,he didnt just ask the question as bluntly as i did.And again,i dont hate Rossi,I hate that one of the greatest sports in the world has been turned on its ear because they saw fit to cater to a cash cow as Jumkie put it.In the long run,i blame Dorna for not having the guts and foresight to run the series in a manner that didnt portray them as cash grabbing opportunist. Rossi just took advantge of Dorna's weakness,they treated him like he was bigger than the sport and he gladly took advantage of their weakness, like im sure most any competitor in any sport would have done.

By the way,whats up with that avatar,you join the Palestinian Movement or something.

You can throw Pedrosa's name in there also.What did it say to the fans when they allowed him to switch tires midway thru a season.It said what most believed,that the chickens,not the rooster, was in charge of the hen house.
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breath in through the nose and count to 10, yeah i know
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i agree about dorna turning the sport on its head by treating it as a cash cow but fail to see how rossi can be inplicated into that. yamaha sign his pay cheques not dorna.
as for the avy, im ust trying to be contraversial like you with your rossi implication but hey, it got me posting again
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 13 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
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breath in through the nose and count to 10, yeah i know
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i agree about dorna turning the sport on its head by treating it as a cash cow but fail to see how rossi can be inplicated into that. yamaha sign his pay cheques not dorna.
as for the avy, im ust trying to be contraversial like you with your rossi implication but hey, it got me posting again
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Good to see you back. I wondered when the Spesh Brew and Westons would work its magic again.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Jan 13 2009, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good to see you back. I wondered when the Spesh Brew and Westons would work its magic again.
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its disturbing how well my cyber mates know me
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 13 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
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as for the avy, im ust trying to be contraversial like you with your rossi implication but hey, it got me posting again
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Ala la la la lal lal lall la la lal al al al al al gihad alah akbar and all that horseshit. ...... muslims and the Israelis should just go to a special spot and just finish the job since they obviously don't ever want a resolution. Want to be controversial then back a peace filled world. 2012 is on it's way and the .... is already about to hit the fan. Russia backs Iran who is filled with muslims. USA backs Isreal who is filled with Jews. Muslims hate the jews and we happen to be in the middle of their ......... WE are all gonna die cause of those shitheads feuding over that one stinkin spot it Jeruselem. I wonder if this war is a prototype series war? No restrictions so....
 

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