Michelin

Isn't this similar to the France GP last year where all Michelin riders (excluding HRC) where "adviced" to use hard rain tires.
Michelin still has the disadvatange that the tires work in a narrower set of conditions, i.e. not as allround as Bridgestone tires. I guess the riders are paying the price again.
LS were the first of the tracks where BS has shown clear advantage, that was masked last year by the faulty michelin desition in France and by a drying track in Donington that both made BS look even better.

I guess any doubts about Rossi's move are gone now.

I'm a Nicky fan and I have no complaints either.

Besides the fact it's obvious to me that the tires are being screwed with anyway, this year wasn't any worse than last year for Michelin.

DORNA changed the way tires were manufactured by outlawing over night deliveries, mandating early tire selection, and limiting the total number of sets.

How can you blame Michelin? They said point blank at the end of '07 that the sport had moved contrary to their tire manufacturing strategies and they needed to pull out to avoid wasting additional funds.

Ezy feared a fan revolt if only one tire manufacturer was present, so he brokered some hushed deal between the manufacturers and the tire producers. The only part released to the public was Rossi's change to B-stone b/c even the dumbest Rossi-bopper could see through the lies if Japanese tire-techs showed up in Michelin hats.

The only people to blame are the prototype-racing-boppers. This ain't unlimited open class racing. This is WWE on motorcycles. Certain elements of the sport need to move to spec equipment so real competition can resume rather than this brokered nonsense we deal with today. Even Ezy (someone I loathe) is smart enough to realize the necessity of spec equipment. Too bad 50% of the sport's fans are lost somewhere in the haze of their own dogma.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 21 2008, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The only people to blame are the prototype-racing-boppers.

Those of us with an interest in the technical side of prototype racing are getting a serious treat in recent times of motogp, it's great. You may "blame" fans like us for motogp being as it is, but there are other sports for you (superbike for example).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 21 2008, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Those of us with an interest in the technical side of prototype racing are getting a serious treat in recent times of motogp, it's great. You may "blame" fans like us for motogp being as it is, but there are other sports for you (superbike for example).

When are you going to wake up and realize there is no prototype racing. There hasn't been for sometime now. Everything in Motogp is a series of compromises brokered behind closed doors. MotoGP will never go back to true prototypes because the cost is astronomical.

I love prototype racing but it's gone. Time to wake up and smell the roses. MotoGP is WSBK by another name with more zeros at the end of the budgets. The difference is, WSBK is a lot more interesting to watch and more riders get a shot. It is a shame that WSBK understand the simple maxims of modern motorsports and DORNA do not.

You're too young to realize it, but this nonsense they've created is a departure from the classic racing the premier class used to showcase when it WAS prototypes. Why would I go elsewhere, I want to see prototype racing as well, but I'm not going to chug Kool-Aid every week before I watch.

There is nothing around the next bend from a technological standpoint. The formula has been constricted and brokered deals decide race results. The only way forward is to loosen restrictions and make the sport cheap. Specifically, cheap horsepower and cheap tires. When the barriers to entry have been removed and the number of competitors is raised, true progression of the sport will occur.

If you find exception with cheap resources you are declaring you love MotoGP for the money. What a fan. I suspect that is about the only thing you love about it anyway. It's obvious you don't care about speed. If you did you wouldn't be so rabidly defensive about the move to the 800s.

Of course how could i forget. Its all an act being controlled from behind closed doors. Naturally there is no evidence of this so only you realize, but there is no way to disprove your theories either (mainly because they were devised to fit the shape you desired rather than a reality of any sort)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 21 2008, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Of course how could i forget. Its all an act being controlled from behind closed doors. Naturally there is no evidence of this so only you realize, but there is no way to disprove your theories either (mainly because they were devised to fit the shape you desired rather than a reality of any sort)

Ezy says he's lost control of the sport and all he does is broker deals between the manufacturers that are in agreement with the pact (an unpublished list of rules the manufacturers have agreed to). Riders are admittedly selected based upon their nationality, and DORNA hands preference to riders from certain markets (another operating norm without foundation in the sport's bylaws).

The manufacturers decided to slow the sport down after Kato's death, even though slowing the sport down has nothing to do with prototype competition.

There is no "pact" with the tire manufacturers, DORNA and the manufacturers take turns giving them orders. Dorna can change a rider's tires. DORNA can impose a control/spec tire whenever they choose. None of that is in the rule book either.

You really are hopeless. History and reality are both on my side; especially if you understand anything about private governmental/regulatory theory. Leave these complicated issues to the men.

Here is some Kool-Aid in a sippee cup. Wow, I'm starting to take after Ezy, maybe he's not so bad after all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 21 2008, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ezy says he's lost control of the sport and all he does is broker deals between the manufacturers that are in agreement with the pact (an unpublished list of rules the manufacturers have agreed to). Riders are admittedly selected based upon their nationality, and DORNA hands preference to riders from certain markets (another operating norm without foundation in the sport's bylaws).

The manufacturers decided to slow the sport down after Kato's death, even though slowing the sport down has nothing to do with prototype competition.

There is no "pact" with the tire manufacturers, DORNA and the manufacturers take turns giving them orders. Dorna can change a rider's tires. DORNA can impose a control/spec tire whenever they choose. None of that is in the rule book either.

You really are hopeless. History and reality are both on my side; especially if you understand anything about private governmental/regulatory theory. Leave these complicated issues to the men.

Here is some Kool-Aid in a sippee cup. Wow, I'm starting to take after Ezy, maybe he's not so bad after all.

I hear what your saying but to my knowledge,every form of racing has rules and guidelines.Does that mean that there has never been a prototype series of any kind.Im not aware of a run what you brung series,if you do,please let me know what it is.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 21 2008, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hear what your saying but to my knowledge,every form of racing has rules and guidelines.Does that mean that there has never been a prototype series of any kind.Im not aware of a run what you brung series,if you do,please let me know what it is.

I haven't suggested prototype racing has never existed, I'm saying prototype racing as we know it no longer exists because the costs associated with successful prototype racing series are astronomical. Instead the governing body uses the guise of prototype racing to market the sport, while running it in ways completely contrary to the prototype rules.

I'm suggesting the governing body or even DORNA at this point, should identify the most expensive, most easily controlled aspects of producing motorcycles then seek to make these parts cheap by means of spec, formula change, or elimination of such parts.

I'm saying such a traditionally anti-prototype stance is acceptable at this time b/c prototyping is dead anyway. The only way to bring back the progression of the sport (commonly associated with prototype racing) is to increase the number of constructors, teams, and riders. Once the marginal benefit spending is reduced, the sport will improve.

The natural state of prototyping is monopoly anyways. So a spec series is the end result of MotoGP. The fact monopoly doesn't exist is testament to the fact DORNA and the manufacturers have long been tinkering with the sport and the outcomes (the tire situation is currently the most obvious example).

I'm suggesting tinkering with the sport should be done in a more transparent manner so other teams, manufacturers, and riders can participate.

Michelin tyres have been having major problems across many sports alately, not just moto gp. The tyre situation last year was poor it saw the likes of many top riders finding it nearly impossible to keep up with those who were bridgestone shon. Rossi's decission to switch from michelins to bridgestones was gutsy but blatently the most logical way to go if he was to stand any chance of fighting for another championship. Did anyone else notice how shredded rossi's bridgestones were at laguna the other day ?? they were shredded on the left hand side, could you imagine if they were michellins ?? it would be like riding on ice.... using tyres made from ice...


Remember this statement!... Bridgestone will be the sole provider either next year or the year after

Michelin + Lorenzo = Chupa Chumps

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dannyisnow @ Jul 21 2008, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did anyone else notice how shredded rossi's bridgestones were at laguna the other day ?? they were shredded on the left hand side, could you imagine if they were michellins ?? it would be like riding on ice.... using tyres made from ice...

They do take alot of corners at laguna on the same side of the tyre... i think the tyre lasted most of the race. The rubber you saw on the edge of the tyre was just build up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 21 2008, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ezy says he's lost control of the sport and all he does is broker deals between the manufacturers that are in agreement with the pact (an unpublished list of rules the manufacturers have agreed to). Riders are admittedly selected based upon their nationality, and DORNA hands preference to riders from certain markets (another operating norm without foundation in the sport's bylaws).

The manufacturers decided to slow the sport down after Kato's death, even though slowing the sport down has nothing to do with prototype competition.

There is no "pact" with the tire manufacturers, DORNA and the manufacturers take turns giving them orders. Dorna can change a rider's tires. DORNA can impose a control/spec tire whenever they choose. None of that is in the rule book either.

You really are hopeless. History and reality are both on my side; especially if you understand anything about private governmental/regulatory theory. Leave these complicated issues to the men.

Here is some Kool-Aid in a sippee cup. Wow, I'm starting to take after Ezy, maybe he's not so bad after all.

I think you are a assuming that something restricted or controlled cannot be prototype racing. If that is the case motogp was never prototype racing.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dannyisnow @ Jul 21 2008, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Michelin tyres have been having major problems across many sports alately

What other sports are they left in besides Le Mans?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 22 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What other sports are they left in besides Le Mans?

WRC.

but i think the point is that they are only involved in a few now because of the problems they seem to have had in their organisation/infrastructure.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jul 22 2008, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WRC.

but i think the point is that they are only involved in a few now because of the problems they seem to have had in their organisation/infrastructure.

WRC is a Pirelli control tyre

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 22 2008, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WRC is a Pirelli control tyre

Michelin Supply in the name of BF Goodrich

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (surendhar @ Jul 22 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Michelin Supply in the name of BF Goodrich

Not anymore. WRC uses a Pirelli control tyre

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 22 2008, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not anymore. WRC uses a Pirelli control tyre

my apologies, michelin (as BF Goodrich) supplied tyres in WRC until the 2008 season,
but this just reinforces the point earlier about there being something flawed @ michelin

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 22 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What other sports are they left in besides Le Mans?

my point exactly. they havent got a future in motor racing

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jul 22 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>my apologies, michelin (as BF Goodrich) supplied tyres in WRC until the 2008 season,
but this just reinforces the point earlier about there being something flawed @ michelin

Michelin didn't bid for the control tyre contract becase they want to compete. Tyre wars are being eliminated from motor racing and if Michelin don't change their principles they will go to. I admire their spirit but sooner or later it will become self harming.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 22 2008, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Michelin didn't bid for the control tyre contract becase they want to compete. Tyre wars are being eliminated from motor racing and if Michelin don't change their principles they will go to. I admire their spirit but sooner or later it will become self harming.

The best part about it is , in a lot of cases the end of tyre wars within a championship has actually improved the championship.