melandri and ducati

full story

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64271

what do you think.
A long and thigh preseason period for Melandri. Seems that Marco may be follow Casey set-up"footprints" short term through ,until that his usefull experience with honda (gresini racing) all those years help him to get somehow better understanding the desmo v4 thus adjust his riding style.
Otherwise i do not know if was a good idea come to an at this moment to ducati given that is build around the aussie champión.

Its in MCN this week,yes,he is struggling but theres plenty of time to adjust for him.Just how far can he push the limits,though?

You have to speak English as your first language to win an WSBK title or a GP title on a Ducati. Apparently the Ducati used to understand Frenchmen but that was only for 1 year.

I think Italians are jinxed on the Duc. Sad, but somewhat comical

Marco struggle on the Yamaha M1 2003, and 2004

Before Marco jumped from Tech 3 to Gresini Honda, Rossi had said to Marco that the Honda would suit his riding style. The Eurosport comedy duo had said it during one of late races in 2004.

Marco has a great year in 2005 with a 2nd, and a bad accident in 2006 but still rides to 4th overall.

Enter 2007, and Honda makes the an 800cc Pig, and the bridgestone help but don't fix all of Marco (AKA random number generator) riding problems.

Now Marco jumps on the Ducati, which is not as easy or as everyman's bike as the Honda, and requires more aggression and man handling than Marco (or Capirossi) may like or be good at....so the Ducati will not be good for Marco's riding style and we may be seeing the return of the M1 Marco of old....

nuff said. the ducati is NOT the best bike on the paddock.

people say when Rossi moved to the yamaha that it was the "rider that made the difference"

hasnt stoner done the same thing?

but no credit when stoner does the same thing, however even more incredible is that stoner did it in his 2nd year of motogp and only at 21.

whereas rossi was already on a WC winning bike when he hopped on it when he first started.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 8 2007, 09:20 PM) [snapback]103828[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
nuff said. the ducati is NOT the best bike on the paddock.


I totally agree.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jaimeg @ Dec 8 2007, 07:33 PM) [snapback]103792[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
link below

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64271

what do you think


I think Melandri in Ducati is not such a good idea. I thought so even before the first tests (have written so in this forum) for the simple reason that Marco is a talented rider but has never been good at setting up a bike. Now, the Ducati needs a LOT of successful tweaking, to become a winning machine.

What Melandri really needs is a ride in the Honda factory team - they give you a good bike every year there (well, almost ) and you do not have to tweak it, you are just requested to ride it as it is. Pity he is not going to get that ride - not in this life, apparently... Too bad. On a Ducati he is going to look at Guintoli's tail I'm afraid...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 8 2007, 09:20 PM) [snapback]103828[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
nuff said. the ducati is NOT the best bike on the paddock.

people say when Rossi moved to the yamaha that it was the "rider that made the difference"

hasnt stoner done the same thing?

not exactly, stoner has moved to a bike that suited his style... rossi moved for other reasons and from honda to yamaha a slower bike and won the championship.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 8 2007, 09:20 PM) [snapback]103828[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
whereas rossi was already on a WC winning bike when he hopped on it when he first started.


are you referring to the Nastro Azzurro Honda that was not an official factory team and we know the yamaha hadn't won a championship for some 12yrs before Rossi came.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 8 2007, 09:20 PM) [snapback]103828[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
but no credit when stoner does the same thing, however even more incredible is that stoner did it in his 2nd year of motogp and only at 21.


His performance on the LCR Honda was poor last season... not everyone is gonna be convinced because he moves to ducati the fastest bike in a straightline and wins. Hes gonna have to do more to win me over.

Wheres his 125, 250 championships to backup what a good rider he is?

Rossi has won every world motogp championship + the big one 5 times.

It looks like Stoner will have to win the motogp many times to even be mentioned in the same breath as Rossi.

Thanks for taking this off topic Pinky

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 9 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]103833[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
not exactly, stoner has moved to a bike that suited his style...


dead right there, I think the Duc. is a very "special" bike compared to the other machines on the grid nad it just so happens that Stoner, a solely 2 stroke <strike>rider</strike>(no racer) up until he got on an LCR, found the Duc. worked better for him. He also was able to set it up to suit him better too.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 9 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]103833[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
His performance on the LCR Honda was poor last season...


I was thinking about that too lately and one big aspect of that which has been overlooked is that stoner had up until that point raced 2 strokes .... from age 4 or so. Even his dirt track riding here was done on 2 strokes. It wouldn't surprise me if the instant power there at low revs. helped him loose fron end grip ..... ie. on a 2 stroke cornering is more a case of keep it in the rev range where you aren't getting the power yet but time it to hit just as you are straightening up. Its a big change and the power deliveries are quite different. The 4 strokes want to lift the wheel of the deck as soon as you crack the throttle whereas on 2 strokes there was a "peaceful" zone in the rev range that you could be assured that the front wheel was going to still be on the ground.

I know with my experience on dirt. I had to rethink cornering, had to find a new way to turn that front end lift into back end drift.. On the road I think it became more of a shift your weight forward earlier than you would on a 2 stroke..

So I'm not sure it was specifically the LCR ... just think that was his 2 stroke to 4 stroke transition year, and he is more attuned to 2 stroke power delivery.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 9 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]103833[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
not everyone is gonna be convinced because he moves to ducati the fastest bike in a straightline and wins.



But he made that thing look pretty good in the corners too ... he overtook a lot of riders at about the 3/4 mark in corners. But I think it was a lot to do with his riding style again working on a Duc. too. And the manner wth which he takes the corners gives him a speed advantage on entry to the straight ... thats the bit I think Rossi and Burgess were trying to work on in China, but it just may not be possibe if you take the corners in the smooth constant curve "railway track" style.??


Now the thing is ..... Does the Duc. fit melandri's style ...... I think he will get it close ... but never in the engine department ..... Melandri is a constant curve cornerer ..... not good for Ducati style power ..... he might find it will be "twitchty" and a bit too edgy for his cornering style. He may do some things to the chasis and weight etc. to keep the front good for him but in the end the Ducati engine is allways going to have more of a "hit up high" power delivery .... Marco was over that in 250's ( and een then I assume it would have been mild compared to the Duc..

I hope the best for him but I also am affeared that the Duc. will not suit him. He is a good rider ..... but may appear to be not as good as he is on the Duc. No fault of either really just may be that the Duc. takes a rider with odd style ..... which is not bad either .. if you get my drift ... hell they were part of a combination in 07 that put together the equal most dmnating season of alltime, and beat the guy that beat Rossi, oh and Rossi himself, in the process!!



I do think that some have put too much faith in their belief that Stoner was lucky, and that anyone could have done it on the Duc. ..... its a different bike ...... that needs a different rider ..... and they got him in 07.
To assume that say Melandri .... or Rossi .... or Pedrosa .... or Hayden would be able to ride it as well as Stoner is a bad bet in my view. Just hope Melandri can change enough in time to put on a bit of show with it .... maybe even find something even more special than Stoner did ... and take it too a new level. Thats the type of bike the Ducati 07 was ..... in the right hands ...........

Boy Rog. is going to hate me for this but: .... imagine that!! ... I could be a Melandri Fanboy ....... but in the meantime I'm brushing up on my Spaineeesh for 08 ......


I've watched Harry Potter, with my young daughter, ..... I think the bit about the "wands" being suited to user has got to me

I really hope Melandri and the technicians can work to a middle ground for the style of riding and the bike, otherwise Marco is gonna have a hard time putting up the numbers he did on the Honda.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 8 2007, 10:53 PM) [snapback]103833[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It looks like Stoner will have to win the motogp many times to even be mentioned in the same breath as Rossi.

This is true for every current rider, not just stoner. Whether or not he was on a great bike, you can't say he is as good as rossi based on one season. I do think stoner's performance on the LCR in the first half of the season including a pole position and a very close second was good, and at this stage in the australian press he was very positive aboout the support he was getting from honda. Whilst claims from him that the LCR was being sabotaged in the second half of the season seem excessive, I think it is more likely that he got poorer support in the second half of the season than that he suddenly lost his riding ability then just as suddenly regained it when he went to ducati. Stoner's problem has always been crashing, not lack of speed, and I had hoped before the last test that he had improved as a rider and was past this.

On topic, I really rate melandri and had thought it would be close between him and casey. Perhaps the set-up he started with on the facory ducati was too close to casey's which is said to be quite idiosyncratic; he was also slower than the d'antin riders and perhaps they need to look at a set-up closer to the d'antins or to capirossi's later in the season when he was quite competitive. I am sure marco is better than capirossi at this stage of their careers but if he really can't set up a bike himself he may not prosper at ducati.

I think you got to give Melandri a whole season before we can comment on whether it's been a good move or not. It's early in pre season testing and whilst he hasn't exactly shone he certainly has the talent to win races.
As for Stoner, I think the best thing that has happened to him has been his move to bridgestones. He never had any feel with the front end with michelins whilst riding the LCR. How many front end loses has he had comparing 2006 to 2007?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Son of Doohan @ Dec 9 2007, 01:59 AM) [snapback]103855[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think you got to give Melandri a whole season before we can comment on whether it's been a good move or not. It's early in pre season testing and whilst he hasn't exactly shone he certainly has the talent to win races.
As for Stoner, I think the best thing that has happened to him has been his move to bridgestones. He never had any feel with the front end with michelins whilst riding the LCR. How many front end loses has he had comparing 2006 to 2007?

Rossi, however, obviously could ride with a michelin front tyre, although it now seems he was not overly delighted with the michelin tyres even in 2006.

straight line this straight line that, end of day, the ducati always had straight line advantge for the last 5 seasons. but who could make advantage of it? no one. and no one made a fuss or even blinked twice.

this season the straigh line advantage vanished half way thru the season because of the smaller tracks and wet races and also engine advancments of the honda/yamaha (some would say the honda is even faster than the ducati in straight line now), did it make a difference? nope stoner still dominated, in fact he extended his lead

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 8 2007, 11:51 PM) [snapback]103844[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So I'm not sure it was specifically the LCR ... just think that was his 2 stroke to 4 stroke transition year, and he is more attuned to 2 stroke power delivery.


yea maybe, good point.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 9 2007, 05:24 AM) [snapback]103864[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
straight line this straight line that, end of day, the ducati always had straight line advantge for the last 5 seasons. but who could make advantage of it? no one. and no one made a fuss or even blinked twice.


i can remember a couple of races from 2005 onwards Rossi said he couldn't compete with Capirossi on the Ducati and said he was playing with him.

Sepang 2005, and Motegi i think.

Capirossi has won 7 races for Ducati before he left.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Dec 9 2007, 05:24 AM) [snapback]103864[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
this season the straigh line advantage vanished half way thru the season because of the smaller tracks and wet races and also engine advancments of the honda/yamaha (some would say the honda is even faster than the ducati in straight line now), did it make a difference? nope stoner still dominated, in fact he extended his lead


I don't think Stoner is the only reason the Ducati has performed well on nearly every track. The capacity change to 800cc made the beast a little easier to tame with the traction control.

tc this tc that, people make it sound that stoner has some sort of magical TC that nasa and stephen hawkins designed and had AI from deep blue.

he whooped a 7 time WC by 100points, which is even more remarkable. rossi fans stop crying its getting old already

stoner had everything didnt he?

Bridgestone
the only one who had Traction Control that worked
Ducati which was the best turning braking and fastest motor
The highest budget of any team
The best mechanics

But the rider was a dud. anyone could of won by 100+points, except for caparossi though, but remember caparossi never got the TC, good tires and didnt get the backing from the Ducati team coz he was italian and they dont want an italian to win coz it will make them lose sales all over the world coz it would seem like they are favouring an italian.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 9 2007, 06:26 PM) [snapback]103866[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I don't think Stoner is the only reason the Ducati has performed well on nearly every track. The capacity change to 800cc made the beast a little easier to tame with the traction control.


After reading a few of the "Pros" tests of the bikes and watchig the MCN tests I am beginning to think its not so much TC as the program Stoner had done, via ECU, to deliver the power. Its more an engine mapping thing than TC.

The guys testing the Dyc. say it was mild when just getting on the throttle ... thats not TC ... TC reacts to the back wheel beginning to spin. I seriously doubt that the guys I saw testing got the back wheel spinning from what I saw. But also if you watch these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7plENYvjG4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh39iwyA9WE&feature=related

listen to the thing burble on early accelleration then all of a sudden you can hear it take of and the revs come clean ..... sounds like an old 500 really. I think Stoner had his it set up in screamer config. and had them lessen the low end hit, via ECU programming, on it just to get it like he was used too.

I think we may see a drastically different setup for Melandri. Stoners is very on/off Melandri may even go back to big bang and run it clean down low for control.

I think Melandri and Hayden should switch places, that would work out both ways.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Noodlerizer @ Dec 9 2007, 07:37 PM) [snapback]103874[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think Melandri and Hayden should switch places, that would work out both ways.

I reckon that would work

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 9 2007, 08:29 AM) [snapback]103873[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7plENYvjG4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh39iwyA9WE&feature=related

listen to the thing burble on early accelleration then all of a sudden you can hear it take of and the revs come clean ..... sounds like an old 500 really. I think Stoner had his it set up in screamer config. and had them lessen the low end hit, via ECU programming, on it just to get it like he was used too.


wow, its so smooth.