Mat Mladin to World Superbike, maybe

Returning to the thread topic (When will you guys get it? They aren't batting for you, they're batting for the corporations that line their pockets), Mladin isn't going to the satellite BMW team. Supposedly it's Pitt. Considering MCN sparked this rumor, I'd imagine BMW scheduled a test in Oz for Pitty and MCN, having Mladin's Tweet fresh in their minds, assumed it was Mladin that was testing. If he's doing anything, he's riding Yosh Suzuki.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Dec 14 2009, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Returning to the thread topic (When will you guys get it? They aren't batting for you, they're batting for the corporations that line their pockets), Mladin isn't going to the satellite BMW team. Supposedly it's Pitt. Considering MCN sparked this rumor, I'd imagine BMW scheduled a test in Oz for Pitty and MCN, having Mladin's Tweet fresh in their minds, assumed it was Mladin that was testing. If he's doing anything, he's riding Yosh Suzuki.
agreed.

and to the rest of you, i'll trade your redneck republicans and socialist dems for my politicians if you want.



try remembering what you HAVE instead of whining about what you dont have. thanksgiving was not that long ago remember.

its now confirmed, pitt is 2nd rider, not matt mladin (said it in other topic too )

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 11 2009, 01:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nail on head. Brett Farve anyone?



Only in the sense that this would continue to elevate the AMA talent pool profile. Yes, it would be odd, but good thing we won't ever have to cross that bridge, Mladin is way to chickenshit to test himself against the top world riders.

Think ya right on this one Junk. He has had the opportunities in the past but aint taken them ( I know he was earning big bucks in the US ) but as a racer you surely want to test yourself against the best....Would love to see him in WSBK. The more the merrier !

Mladin tells it like it is. Pony up the money ......., i aint racing for free. If he had any doubts or regrets, Spies erased them with his dismantling of the WSBK field.


After the World Superbike paddock got a sense of what the amazing American had to offer, it should have been only natural that every team serious about winning start dialing Mladin's number early and often in hopes of snapping up the steely veteran to do some serious damage in '10.

Asked if that had proven the case, Mat offered a quintessential Mladin response. "Over the past six or seven years I've had a number of calls from different people but the monetary considerations from Europe are an absolute joke. There was no way I was ever going to leave to go over there for that and that's simply the truth. I wasn't going to go over and race in Europe for a fifth of what I could make racing in America. In the end, if they want to get serious… wanted to get serious about winning, then people need to at least put a figure on something that's not a complete embarrassment."




http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ama...in-the-end//P1/

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 23 2009, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mladin tells it like it is.
Really? What is he telling us here that you are so enamored with? What quality that you obviously approve of has he reveal here?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 23 2009, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the end, if they want to get serious… wanted to get serious about winning, then people need to at least put a figure on something that's not a complete embarrassment."
This is what is the joke. Mladin says if they are serious about "winning" then he talks about "money" hahaha, its him who is the "embarrassment". So he is NOT serious about winning, he's just serious about a paycheck. He's full of .....

Why are you so hell bent on giving props to a guys who is basically saying, I haven't won .... but you need to pay me as if I would. He has had his run of small pond titles interrupted by two riders that are now in MotoGP. These two BEAT Mladin mind you. Both of which are now World Champions, so are you saying because he came runner up (that's it) that he deserves to demand millions, and if the teams don't "pony" up that they are the ones not serious? What kinda of backward ... thinking is this? He is only demanding on mere 'potential'. He hasn't delivered ....! Did Nicky Hayden or Ben Spies demand a 5X plus payday BEFORE they moved up? NO. Because they were actually SERIOUS about winning! This ... has accomplished nothing to be demanding anything among the world stage. He got beat by both youngsters now in GP, that doesn't make him better, it actually makes him less. Something he doesn't (ad apparently you) don't understand. So if anything, the teams are telling it "like it is", they are saying, "pony" up results on the world stage, then, and only then, do you get a payday. .... him, and .... the stupid American team that gave him so much money that he did not deserve; he was NOT worth it, much less now! Mladin has always been second best, this is why he got beat by Nicky and Ben Spies. He was never the best in the AMA, he was only the title holder when the best left the AMA; I haven't even factored in that he was clearly on the best bike and team bar none (big difference that you seem not to get brotha, I know it requires a bit of analytical thought, something you reps are not good at, hahaha).

Oh, and I know its easy to say if Spies crushed the WSBK field so would Mladin, but we all know that's Not exactly how it works in sports! Mladin would have to test himself against against the competition; there is no substitute for this. We have no idea how he would react in that setting. Less you forget that under the pressure, when it came down to the winner of the last race between him and Spies, he didn't take the win and therefore didn't take the title--Spies did. But we will never know about WSBK because Mladin made the excuse of money (perhaps one of the worst for a supposed competitor, talk about sell out.) I'm sure he has been offered decent money (because the figures are never public), but he wants more. What he should do is make an incentives contract, if he delivers then he gets the big bucks he 'thinks' he's worth. But for now MLADIN IS FULL OF ....! (And as this thread has now revealed, he will never disprove wrong that he was not willing to prove he is the best). ....... coward.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 23 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really? What is he telling us here that you are so enamored with? What quality that you obviously approve of has he reveal here?


This is what is the joke. Mladin says if they are serious about "winning" then he talks about "money" hahaha, its him who is the "embarrassment". So he is NOT serious about winning, he's just serious about a paycheck. He's full of .....

Why are you so hell bent on giving props to a guys who is basically saying, I haven't won .... but you need to pay me as if I would. He has had his run of small pond titles interrupted by two riders that are now in MotoGP. These two BEAT Mladin mind you. Both of which are now World Champions, so are you saying because he came runner up (that's it) that he deserves to demand millions, and if the teams don't "pony" up that they are the ones not serious? What kinda of backward ... thinking is this? He is only demanding on mere 'potential'. He hasn't delivered ....! Did Nicky Hayden or Ben Spies demand a 5X plus payday BEFORE they moved up? NO. Because they were actually SERIOUS about winning! This ... has accomplished nothing to be demanding anything among the world stage. He got beat by both youngsters now in GP, that doesn't make him better, it actually makes him less. Something he doesn't (ad apparently you) don't understand. So if anything, the teams are telling it "like it is", they are saying, "pony" up results on the world stage, then, and only then, do you get a payday. .... him, and .... the stupid American team that gave him so much money that he did not deserve; he was NOT worth it, much less now! Mladin has always been second best, this is why he got beat by Nicky and Ben Spies. He was never the best in the AMA, he was only the title holder when the best left the AMA; I haven't even factored in that he was clearly on the best bike and team bar none (big difference that you seem not to get brotha, I know it requires a bit of analytical thought, something you reps are not good at, hahaha).

Oh, and I know its easy to say if Spies crushed the WSBK field so would Mladin, but we all know that's Not exactly how it works in sports! Mladin would have to test himself against against the competition; there is no substitute for this. We have no idea how he would react in that setting. Less you forget that under the pressure, when it came down to the winner of the last race between him and Spies, he didn't take the win and therefore didn't take the title--Spies did. But we will never know about WSBK because Mladin made the excuse of money (perhaps one of the worst for a supposed competitor, talk about sell out.) I'm sure he has been offered decent money (because the figures are never public), but he wants more. What he should do is make an incentives contract, if he delivers then he gets the big bucks he 'thinks' he's worth. But for now MLADIN IS FULL OF ....! (And as this thread has now revealed, he will never disprove wrong that he was not willing to prove he is the best). ....... coward.
#1 That he is a professional and will not work for free Its counter productive and a terrible precedent to set for future riders.


#2 He also beat both of them for titles,mind you!


#3 No,and neither did Mladin. I understand your not a math teacher but there is a huge difference from being payed a 5th of what your currently making,compared to claiming he asked 5 times his current pay.

#4 See #3 and go practice your analytical thinking


#5 He was a bargain at twice the price,Yoshimura performance and Suzuki made 100's of millions off his name.

#6 Utter ........,see #2 .Plus it could be argued that Nicky was on a superior bike [1000 vs 750] and Spies was on the same bike,so whats your point.

#7 Way to old to do incentive contracts. It would more than likely be a 1 year gig,maybe 2.

Mladin doesnt need WSBK,they were calling him. You are talking from your heart,straight thru your ...,instead of your head, which is common for Dems.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 24 2009, 04:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>#6 Utter ........,see #2 .Plus it could be argued that Nicky was on a superior bike [1000 vs 750] and Spies was on the same bike,so whats your point.

.

Mladin doesnt need WSBK,they were calling him. You are talking from your heart,straight thru your ...,instead of your head, which is common for Dems.

Povol, you make a great point in No.6, which I was thinking when I was reading Jumkie's post, and then it all caved in through that last sentence!!!!

I agree Pov, when Nicky won his AMA title SBk was hugely inequitable. If you were wringing every last pony out of a 'four' then you were on a hiding to nothing. Remember EBoz's gallant rides on the Kwak? The rules favoured the twins, and unlike now, in the AMA, American Honda was still a full factory concern. This is why I don't think that Foggy's four titles were quite the achievement that they are purported to be. When he eventually did step off the Ducati for one season, although he remained on a twin, he still got his ... handed to him by 'Lil John. Had Fogarty ridden a four throughout his period in the nineties, then I don't think he would've won a bean. That's why Russell and Haga's achievements were so noteworthy...(because let's not forget, Nori far from losing the pounds, ephridine lost him the title on that horny as .... R7 in 2000).

Maladin's talents are hard to quantify because following the four/twin imbalance being redressed, he was always in the best team, and the Yoshi Suzuki's were unassailable.In fact it went too far the other way - with the Ducati's in the AMA eventually limited through the throttle bodies. On the world stage his brief foray in GP was on inferior equipment, and he's never stepped outside the National Arena in Supers - of which he's always been very derogatory about...both the calibre of riders and the series itself.

Whatever Pov, you blew your moment!! - You actually, for a brief second in the history of this forum, made a good point against one of Jum's arguments, and then....talk about flushing your credibility down the ....... - you remind us of your political leanings. Basically, a reaffirmation of the fact that your critical judgement is seriously impaired, your decision making process generally flawed, and that - for the record - you probably go to bed on Christmas Eve in a flannel shirt cradling a twelve ball and dreaming of a case of bud. You're like a child who comes back to play with fire again having been severely burned on more than one occasion All the same, Merry Christmas Big Guy:
Happy Christmas Y'all

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You guys and you're ....... politics, I won't comment.

Mladin is the best rider in the AMA, and has been, spanning more than a decade. When he lost his title to Hayden, he was at a bit of a disadvantage going up against a full factory RC51. Then again, the GSXR has been the class of the field ever since he signed up, bar 2001-2002. Spies' titles are far more impressive, considering he did it on equal equipment (a reason why I think Spies is a stronger rider than Hayden, despite my personal preference). However, to say he merely picked up the pieces in between Hayden and Spies would be to mislead. He beat reigning champion Ben Bostrom on the Vance & Hines Ducati, in a year when the champ actually won a race or two. He kept Hayden at bay for two seasons while Hayden was on the full factory Honda. He had Kurtis Roberts well covered while Roberts was in his prime. Eric Bostrom on a ZX-7RR bored to 800cc couldn't quite keep up (although Aaron Yates destroyed Boz's strongest year. God Yikes is a ......) and that didn't change when he went to a factory Ducati on both Michelin and Dunlop tires. Hodgson couldn't have a go at Mladin, nor could BBoz when he returned from WSBK... twice. Mladin's had no shortage of competition, he's just lost out to a couple of world champions.

As far as the money thing goes, I can't say I entirely blame the guy. He's not some 22 year old kid anymore. He's not going to go race in Europe for a massive salary cut just to prove a point. At this stage in his life, he's got a family to worry about and stuff like that. He had his world championship experience and he got paid ...., rode a .... bike, got treated like ...., achieved rather impressive results considering the situation and what happened? His teammate, who Mladin outshone on the track, was selected as the lead rider. .... you too, I'd say.

I've always been very critical of Mladin's reluctance to leave the states. Any fan would want to see him lining up against the best Superbikers in the world, if not having a go in grand prix. However, he's as stubborn as they come, he got nothing but .... the last time he went to Europe, he's been making a boatload in the US and no one in Europe seems to be willing or able to put together a package that can compensate Mladin in a similar fashion to what he makes in the US and can guarantee the equipment he needs.

Now if someone comes along offering up a factory ride at what he's been making in the US, then we know he's chickenshit. But until then (and I don't think that will ever happen), it'll just be a very strong probability.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Dec 24 2009, 04:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You guys and you're ....... politics, I won't comment.
Povol started it.....(again)

Great Post btw

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Dec 24 2009, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Povol started it.....(again)

Great Post btw
And you would be wrong, AGAIN

Post #47
Jumkie stated

I know it requires a bit of analytical thought, something you reps are not good at, hahaha). laugh.gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 24 2009, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And you would be wrong, AGAIN

Post #47
Jumkie stated

I know it requires a bit of analytical thought, something you reps are not good at, hahaha). laugh.gif

When I read that - I thought Jum was taking the piss out of you being a salesman!!!!! In England we call them 'reps' - cue Warner Bro's cartoon ....... ears!!!!!

Merry Christmas Povol - I concede, I was wrong, (but not again).

Perhaps I could deploy another crass redneck reference to cower behind

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 24 2009, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And you would be wrong, AGAIN

Post #47
Jumkie stated

I know it requires a bit of analytical thought, something you reps are not good at, hahaha). laugh.gif

Hey Pov, who said this in post #11? 11 is a smaller number than 47 buddy. Your .... politics are as great as your reasonings & math my friend. (Using fuzzy math again?)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 10 2009, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>POST #11: One thing im not is a left wing socialist liberal Democrat.



Moving on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Dec 24 2009, 02:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Povol, you make a great point in No.6, which I was thinking when I was reading Jumkie's post, and then it all caved in through that last sentence!!!!

I agree Pov, when Nicky won his AMA title SBk was hugely inequitable.

Maladin's talents are hard to quantify because following the four/twin imbalance being redressed, he was always in the best team, and the Yoshi Suzuki's were unassailable.

Thanks for your imput bro, however, if my entire point regarding Mladin's unwillingess (chickenshitness) HINGED on Nicky's win over Mladin, then I would gladly conceded the point; notwithstanding, we still have the rest of points to debate, and I'd say it still stands.

Anyway, the difference between the bikes is arguable, its a problem you have with series that homologates different bikes, name one that doesn't do this. Hell even between similar configurations and displacements there are superior and inferior packages. Mladin's rides if we are gonna compare them to his competitors was equally inequitable.

Poor Pov was clutching at straws with the rest of his weak defense of Mladin. If anything, Austin did a better job, though I still disagree with some of his points too (though its funner to debate Povy for obvious reasons).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 23 2009, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>POV#1 That he is a professional and will not work for free Its counter productive and a terrible precedent to set for future riders.


ME: He’s NOT being “offered” to work for free (lame exaggeration to pad a weak point), he’s being “offered” money for what he is; a national title holder. You of all people claim to know this, the market for a national title holder is much lower. The fact that the US overpaid him is erroneously assigned value at the world stage. He has done nothing to be matched what he was making in the US, except to be offered an opportunity to prove himself. (Argue this, which you didn’t).


POV#2 He also beat both of them for titles,mind you!

ME: You are stretching here, as usually to pad your very weak point. NO, He never beat these men once they won the title, Hayden moved on (knowing this is a small pond) and Ben Spies beat him three straight, then did the same a Nicky. You trying to say he beat them is like saying Rossi beat the rookies, yeah well no ...., what is you weak point? This is not a point of admiration in favor of Mladin clown, it’s the opposite.


POV#3 No,and neither did Mladin. I understand your not a math teacher but there is a huge difference from being payed a 5th of what your currently making,compared to claiming he asked 5 times his current pay.

ME: Well first of all, you did NOT debate or answer the question (how could you, it would make your point here look dumb), I asked if Nicky or Ben demanded 5X their US salary before going to the world stage. I know you didn’t miss the point, your response simply shows you have nothing in reply. Let me remind you what your hero Mladin actually said: “I wasn't going to go over and race in Europe for a fifth of what I could make racing in America.” (another point you lose)

POV#4 See #3 and go practice your analytical thinking

ME: They overpaid him, and now he thinks this is the standard for the world stage, you have yet to make his pay relevant to a completely different opportunity to show himself the best in a world series (which I contend he is not).

POV#5 He was a bargain at twice the price,Yoshimura performance and Suzuki made 100's of millions off his name.

ME: I really doubt Mladin’s NAME has sold much, he’s a marketing nightmare, I only know a about three people who like him (you are one of them). Suzuki and Yosh are good products, they sell themselves, Mladin’s marketing “name” had very little to do with this. Ask around your Suzuki buddies if they bought their bikes because they associate it with Mladin. Hahahaha. Mladin, being the champ still was trumped in marketing VALUE by the likes of Bostroms, Haydens, and Spies.

POV#6 Utter ........,see #2 .Plus it could be argued that Nicky was on a superior bike [1000 vs 750] and Spies was on the same bike,so whats your point.

ME: Ok, I’ll concede this point, (though its arguable and not as clear cut as you and great minds like Arabi and Austin do); so you still have the rest to debate (which you haven’t). My argument did NOT HINGE on this point.

POV#7 Way to old to do incentive contracts. It would more than likely be a 1 year gig,maybe 2.

ME: He is not way to old, especially if he’s going to be poping off his mouth like he would be something in WSBK but the ........ excuse is money. Well if that is what is impedeing him, then make an incentive contract. I’m sure anybody would sign something that said: Ok, if I win the world title, then you pay me X because of all the exposure I will get your brand, bla bla bla. Oh, and he wasn’t too old in 99 after his first AMA title, or in 00, 01. He just never moved on, now he and you think that being a big fish in a small pond means he will be a big fish in an ocean. (fuzzy analysys buddy)

POV Mladin doesnt need WSBK,they were calling him. You are talking from your heart,straight thru your ...,instead of your head, which is common for Dems.

ME: ........! He’s the one putting it on his tweeter to make people like you think he is relevant. (Again, shows how you are easily fooled and suckered). They have been “offering” him an opportunity because DMG has almost destroyed the AMA, which is the only reason Mladin is leaving (which is an unexpected positive for me) otherwise we know Mladin would have stayed on for another season. Why wouldn’t he; being at Yosh Suzuki is the equivalent of Buell for the Daytona Sportbike. Bottom line, Mladin never moved on, so he can not be assigned anything beyond that. Look at the BSB champs like Byrne and Kiyo, they didn’t pan out in WSBKs, so as you can see (which I doubt you understand) the complexity of sport is multifarious and cannot be delineated like school children who sumise: well if I can beat Johnny, and Peter gets beat by Johnny, then I must be able to beat Peter. That’s not how it works in sports Povy.

(I replied this way because there is actually a limit to how may quotes one can open).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Dec 24 2009, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Merry Christmas Povol - I concede, I was wrong, (but not again).
Don't concede so quickly, Pov injected politics back in post #11 way before me. Technically, you are still correct.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Dec 24 2009, 08:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You guys and you're ....... politics, I won't comment.
Its not really about politics as it is about Pov's inability to reason exemplified by his politics. (ah I kid the man, you know its all in fun...sorta).


Mladin is the best rider in the AMA, and has been, spanning more than a decade.

Bold statement, but does it hold up? Ok, you and Arabi seem to think the packages were the difference in 02 (and I defer to argue the point), so your statement above will need a spin to explain 06, 07, 08. (Correct me if I'm wrong but a "decade" is ten years still, right?)

I don't think he was the best, and certainly not better than Hayden and Spies. If you boys are gonna make the case for a package difference in 02, then you will need to extend the concept of inequity to other years he rode for the best team as well. Do you really think he would have looked so good while Spies on a Suzuki had Mladin been on the Honda or Yamaha (lets not even talk about the Kwaker, which last I checked had the same configurations and displacements as Suzuki--or are you not gonna extrapolate using the same concepts of inequity buddy?)


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>When he lost his title to Hayden, he was at a bit of a disadvantage going up against a full factory RC51. Then again, the GSXR has been the class of the field ever since he signed up, bar 2001-2002. Spies' titles are far more impressive, considering he did it on equal equipment (a reason why I think Spies is a stronger rider than Hayden, despite my personal preference). However, to say he merely picked up the pieces in between Hayden and Spies would be to mislead. He beat reigning champion Ben Bostrom on the Vance & Hines Ducati, in a year when the champ actually won a race or two. He kept Hayden at bay for two seasons while Hayden was on the full factory Honda. He had Kurtis Roberts well covered while Roberts was in his prime. Eric Bostrom on a ZX-7RR bored to 800cc couldn't quite keep up (although Aaron Yates destroyed Boz's strongest year. God Yikes is a ......) and that didn't change when he went to a factory Ducati on both Michelin and Dunlop tires. Hodgson couldn't have a go at Mladin, nor could BBoz when he returned from WSBK... twice. Mladin's had no shortage of competition, he's just lost out to a couple of world champions.

There are parts that I agree and disagree above. Parts that I disagree is you make it sound like the Yosh Suzuki wasn't as full factory effort as the RC51, I contend they were a match in support. Nicky was but a mere child in 01/02 mind you and coming runner up in 02 then to win the title in 03 to join the MotoGP field and be rookie of the year says something about how Mladin matched up, that is to say, a bit less. I agree, that Spies titles are impressive but they are by default easier to compare against Mladin since they were on the same package, but to deduce that Spies is a stronger rider than Hayden using this as your reference is a long stretch bro. As far as Mladin's competition, please, there are a bunch of holes here. You bring up 99 over the V & H Ducati? This is part of your defense for saying Mladin wasn't picking up the pieces. Hahaha. Ducati was out and leaving in a hurry. You add he kept Hayden at bay, yeah while Nicky was 12 years old hahaha, and not sure why you mention Kurtis, but to mention Eboz? How exactly does this defend the idea of stiff competition if he was on the same configuration but smaller displacement? (I mean, I get the twin vs fours, but four vs fours with different discplacements?) Then to mention Hodgson (don't forget his teammate BBoz too) on a Ducati whose rules we both know were not gonna produce any kind of equity (or do we need to revisit the differences in engine configurations vs displacement, I know you're not the type to look a cc only and declare alas).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>As far as the money thing goes, I can't say I entirely blame the guy. He's not some 22 year old kid anymore. He's not going to go race in Europe for a massive salary cut just to prove a point. At this stage in his life, he's got a family to worry about and stuff like that. He had his world championship experience and he got paid ...., rode a .... bike, got treated like ...., achieved rather impressive results considering the situation and what happened? His teammate, who Mladin outshone on the track, was selected as the lead rider. .... you too, I'd say.

This is the part of you post that had me laughing the loudest combined with confusion. Coming from a guy who has called John Hopkins a "sell out" no less. Dude, Austin, you are killing me bro. First of all, he isn't that old, remind me how old Bayliss was in his last title run? Nori isn't exactly a spring chicken either. Hahaha. Mladin wasn't alway this old either buddy, he was young after his 2, 3, 4, etc national title. So spin those years regarding "age" vs pay. That's what you guys keep getting wrong, he isn't even really considering it, he's only deflecting the obvious by throwing up the smoke screen of $$$. You say he doesn't have a point to prove? Oh really, then why is he publishing it on his tweeter to make himself relevant? He's easily fooled the Povols of the world into thinking that because some team throws out a "it couldn't hurt" offer to him, and then he 'rejects' then spinning like 'yeah they want me, I must be valuable' bla bla bla. Who is trying to make the point here?

You say he had a world championship experience and got paid ...., hahaha yeah well no ...., he didn't impress anybody. You say he got treated like ....? Let me ask you how much respect would Nicky have garnered had after 'really been treated like ....' at Honda post 06 he would have come to the AMA and clicked off 3 AMA titles? It might be a bit like sending Albert Pujols to double A ball and then showering him with some pass (as you are doing with Mladin) because he wins a batting title in double A.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I've always been very critical of Mladin's reluctance to leave the states. Any fan would want to see him lining up against the best Superbikers in the world, if not having a go in grand prix. However, he's as stubborn as they come, he got nothing but .... the last time he went to Europe, he's been making a boatload in the US and no one in Europe seems to be willing or able to put together a package that can compensate Mladin in a similar fashion to what he makes in the US and can guarantee the equipment he needs.

Yes, I know you've been critical of Mladin, but I still think you give his attempt way too much credit and his supposed reason in the last few years has become even more laughable. For whatever reason he got paid a .... load of money in the US, why do you assign this as the standard that must be met on the world stage simply because Mladin says it is a stipulation? What's even more funny is this idea that he merits it without even proven he is capable and would deliver at a higher level. Tell me something Austin (and Pov) we in the States make the draft pics a major event, how may number 1 picks who excelled in college fizzled in the pros? This is exactly what Mladin is saying, 'I'm so good in college ball that I must be good in pro ball.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Now if someone comes along offering up a factory ride at what he's been making in the US, then we know he's chickenshit. But until then (and I don't think that will ever happen), it'll just be a very strong probability.

How many Heisman trophy winners never became the Second Coming for their teams? Mladin has only earned the opportunity to be “offered” a ride at the world stage NOT demand a world champion’s salary before he delivers or accomplishes anything.



LAST POINT: I suppose here is as good as anywhere else to post this; but last night I met up with member Narsty (do you guys remember him?--He's the Aussie who was referred to me by Dazza to help orient at Laguna. The dude flew from China and we met up at Laguna, see Laguna 09 thread). Anyway, he happen to be in Los Angeles area and called me out of the complete blue yesterday evening. We went out for drinks last night (Cali Kid as well) and got fairly wasted. We talked about all this .... from a-z, including the mandatory MotoGP/WSBK topics. Great times! I mention this to express that I see the above exchanges in the same light, all good stuff with friends who have the same passion for bikes. You guys are my friends and I appreciate the exchanges, even from completely opposite political view (me being sane and Pov being wrong, etc

) and spanning oceans apart. Today is Xmas eve, I just received a Xmas card from my heathen friend Roger (ironic because we both feel the same about Religion, haha). In short, I appreciate you guys and enjoy everybody here on this forum (exemplified by our little exchange here).

Merry Christmas to you guys, and really, BEST WISHES!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Dec 10 2009, 02:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That'd be because they're Irish perhaps - so I wonder why they might take offence. Try the same trick in Northern Wales and see what occurs!!

Despite the fact that there are actually some Northern Irish of English descent, the issue of contention here is 'Britishness' which is a rather anachronistic umbrella term - as opposed to Englishness.

Just for the record Povol, my Father is Irish - (from County Wicklow), and my Mother is Welsh, (from Ceredigion), and I was raised in England - I don't need to consult Wikipedia on the subject - just as you wouldn't need to look up the entry for neo-con redneck, the KKK or the NRA. Besides a Wikipedia education is a contradiction in terms!!

Actually, what's far worse than confusing the Irish with the English is people who pretend to be Irish. Fourth generation supposed descendants who have discovered that their Great Great Great Grandmothers Second Cousin half removed stepped off the boat at Ellis Island. You of all people should know this Keshav - The bars in Hells Kitchen were full of them - filling up donation buckets to the IRA while over here shopping precincts and high streets were being firebombed on a thrice weekly basis.

Regarding Maladin - isn't he too preoccupied with his light aircraft and his import business concerns? Love to see him on the World stage - I remember his brief inauspicious foray into GP during the '90's. I also remember the Yoshi team testing some years ago at PI at the same time as the WSBk guys and he smoked the entire field. Then again, come to think of it, he wasn't on Pirelli's.

There's no team out there that'd match what he earned in the U.S.
Try again Junkie ,Arab beat me to it in post #10. Its ok dude,its how you were indoctrinated,keep saying it over and over and misinformation will become the truth.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 24 2009, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey Pov, who said this in post #11? 11 is a smaller number than 47 buddy. Your .... politics are as great as your reasonings & math my friend. (Using fuzzy math again?)





Moving on.



Thanks for your imput bro, however, if my entire point regarding Mladin's unwillingess (chickenshitness) HINGED on Nicky's win over Mladin, then I would gladly conceded the point; notwithstanding, we still have the rest of points to debate, and I'd say it still stands.

Anyway, the difference between the bikes is arguable, its a problem you have with series that homologates different bikes, name one that doesn't do this. Hell even between similar configurations and displacements there are superior and inferior packages. Mladin's rides if we are gonna compare them to his competitors was equally inequitable.

Poor Pov was clutching at straws with the rest of his weak defense of Mladin. If anything, Austin did a better job, though I still disagree with some of his points too (though its funner to debate Povy for obvious reasons).



(I replied this way because there is actually a limit to how may quotes one can open).
I love it when you are proved wrong,you just ratchet up the rhetoric to deflect the obvious.

You said

I asked if Nicky or Ben demanded 5X their US salary before going to the world stage.

I answered,no they didnt,nor did Mladin. And that is a fact. If Mladin was asking 5X his US salary,that would be in the neighborhood of 15 million dollars. Now if you ...... up what you were trying to say,just say it,we wont hold it against you, for long

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 24 2009, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Its not really about politics as it is about Pov's inability to reason exemplified by his politics. (ah I kid the man, you know its all in fun...sorta).


Mladin is the best rider in the AMA, and has been, spanning more than a decade.

Bold statement, but does it hold up? Ok, you and Arabi seem to think the packages were the difference in 02 (and I defer to argue the point), so your statement above will need a spin to explain 06, 07, 08. (Correct me if I'm wrong but a "decade" is ten years still, right?)

I don't think he was the best, and certainly not better than Hayden and Spies. If you boys are gonna make the case for a package difference in 02, then you will need to extend the concept of inequity to other years he rode for the best team as well. Do you really think he would have looked so good while Spies on a Suzuki had Mladin been on the Honda or Yamaha (lets not even talk about the Kwaker, which last I checked had the same configurations and displacements as Suzuki--or are you not gonna extrapolate using the same concepts of inequity buddy?)




There are parts that I agree and disagree above. Parts that I disagree is you make it sound like the Yosh Suzuki wasn't as full factory effort as the RC51, I contend they were a match in support. Nicky was but a mere child in 01/02 mind you and coming runner up in 02 then to win the title in 03 to join the MotoGP field and be rookie of the year says something about how Mladin matched up, that is to say, a bit less. I agree, that Spies titles are impressive but they are by default easier to compare against Mladin since they were on the same package, but to deduce that Spies is a stronger rider than Hayden using this as your reference is a long stretch bro. As far as Mladin's competition, please, there are a bunch of holes here. You bring up 99 over the V & H Ducati? This is part of your defense for saying Mladin wasn't picking up the pieces. Hahaha. Ducati was out and leaving in a hurry. You add he kept Hayden at bay, yeah while Nicky was 12 years old hahaha, and not sure why you mention Kurtis, but to mention Eboz? How exactly does this defend the idea of stiff competition if he was on the same configuration but smaller displacement? (I mean, I get the twin vs fours, but four vs fours with different discplacements?) Then to mention Hodgson (don't forget his teammate BBoz too) on a Ducati whose rules we both know were not gonna produce any kind of equity (or do we need to revisit the differences in engine configurations vs displacement, I know you're not the type to look a cc only and declare alas).



This is the part of you post that had me laughing the loudest combined with confusion. Coming from a guy who has called John Hopkins a "sell out" no less. Dude, Austin, you are killing me bro. First of all, he isn't that old, remind me how old Bayliss was in his last title run? Nori isn't exactly a spring chicken either. Hahaha. Mladin wasn't alway this old either buddy, he was young after his 2, 3, 4, etc national title. So spin those years regarding "age" vs pay. That's what you guys keep getting wrong, he isn't even really considering it, he's only deflecting the obvious by throwing up the smoke screen of $$$. You say he doesn't have a point to prove? Oh really, then why is he publishing it on his tweeter to make himself relevant? He's easily fooled the Povols of the world into thinking that because some team throws out a "it couldn't hurt" offer to him, and then he 'rejects' then spinning like 'yeah they want me, I must be valuable' bla bla bla. Who is trying to make the point here?

You say he had a world championship experience and got paid ...., hahaha yeah well no ...., he didn't impress anybody. You say he got treated like ....? Let me ask you how much respect would Nicky have garnered had after 'really been treated like ....' at Honda post 06 he would have come to the AMA and clicked off 3 AMA titles? It might be a bit like sending Albert Pujols to double A ball and then showering him with some pass (as you are doing with Mladin) because he wins a batting title in double A.



Yes, I know you've been critical of Mladin, but I still think you give his attempt way too much credit and his supposed reason in the last few years has become even more laughable. For whatever reason he got paid a .... load of money in the US, why do you assign this as the standard that must be met on the world stage simply because Mladin says it is a stipulation? What's even more funny is this idea that he merits it without even proven he is capable and would deliver at a higher level. Tell me something Austin (and Pov) we in the States make the draft pics a major event, how may number 1 picks who excelled in college fizzled in the pros? This is exactly what Mladin is saying, 'I'm so good in college ball that I must be good in pro ball.




How many Heisman trophy winners never became the Second Coming for their teams? Mladin has only earned the opportunity to be “offered” a ride at the world stage NOT demand a world champion’s salary before he delivers or accomplishes anything.



LAST POINT: I suppose here is as good as anywhere else to post this; but last night I met up with member Narsty (do you guys remember him?--He's the Aussie who was referred to me by Dazza to help orient at Laguna. The dude flew from China and we met up at Laguna, see Laguna 09 thread). Anyway, he happen to be in Los Angeles area and called me out of the complete blue yesterday evening. We went out for drinks last night (Cali Kid as well) and got fairly wasted. We talked about all this .... from a-z, including the mandatory MotoGP/WSBK topics. Great times! I mention this to express that I see the above exchanges in the same light, all good stuff with friends who have the same passion for bikes. You guys are my friends and I appreciate the exchanges, even from completely opposite political view (me being sane and Pov being wrong, etc

) and spanning oceans apart. Today is Xmas eve, I just received a Xmas card from my heathen friend Roger (ironic because we both feel the same about Religion, haha). In short, I appreciate you guys and enjoy everybody here on this forum (exemplified by our little exchange here).

Merry Christmas to you guys, and really, BEST WISHES!
You meant Happy Holidays didnt you

Merry Christmas Jum

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 24 2009, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Bold statement, but does it hold up? Ok, you and Arabi seem to think the packages were the difference in 02 (and I defer to argue the point), so your statement above will need a spin to explain 06, 07, 08. (Correct me if I'm wrong but a "decade" is ten years still, right?)
I've never said that that packages are what made the difference in 2002. Hayden could have beaten him on equal machinery that year, the kid was flying. I just like to use that as a reference point to compare Hayden and Spies.

Obviously Mladin wasn't the best rider in the series in 2002, 2006, 2007 or 2008 but every other year since 1999 he has been. Spanning a decade, there hasn't been any other rider that has been as consistently strong in this series. Hayden and Spies left like Mladin should have done a long time ago, but he didn't. He stuck around and was year in, year out, the best rider over the past decade.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 24 2009, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There are parts that I agree and disagree above. Parts that I disagree is you make it sound like the Yosh Suzuki wasn't as full factory effort as the RC51, I contend they were a match in support. Nicky was but a mere child in 01/02 mind you and coming runner up in 02 then to win the title in 03 to join the MotoGP field and be rookie of the year says something about how Mladin matched up, that is to say, a bit less. I agree, that Spies titles are impressive but they are by default easier to compare against Mladin since they were on the same package, but to deduce that Spies is a stronger rider than Hayden using this as your reference is a long stretch bro. As far as Mladin's competition, please, there are a bunch of holes here. You bring up 99 over the V & H Ducati? This is part of your defense for saying Mladin wasn't picking up the pieces. Hahaha. Ducati was out and leaving in a hurry. You add he kept Hayden at bay, yeah while Nicky was 12 years old hahaha, and not sure why you mention Kurtis, but to mention Eboz? How exactly does this defend the idea of stiff competition if he was on the same configuration but smaller displacement? (I mean, I get the twin vs fours, but four vs fours with different discplacements?) Then to mention Hodgson (don't forget his teammate BBoz too) on a Ducati whose rules we both know were not gonna produce any kind of equity (or do we need to revisit the differences in engine configurations vs displacement, I know you're not the type to look a cc only and declare alas).
I mentioned in my previous post that Yoshimura Suzuki has been the package to have since Mladin joined back in '99. No argument about that. And no argument that Suzuki had been attacking the AMA full force throughout Mladin's tenure there. All I'm saying is that Hayden's RC51 was rumored to be nearly identical to the spec of Edwards' when he won the world title.

In 1999 Ducati brought in reigning champion Ben Bostrom and had Anthony Gobert on the team. You don't bring in guys like that just to phone it in. Ducati's withdrawal shortly after was merely coincidence, and it marked the end of one of the top AMA SBK teams of the 90s.

The Kurtis and EBoz points were that these two were tipped to be the next guys to follow Hayden out of AMA into WSBK or MotoGP. Boz had poor machinery, no question, but he was supposed to be one of the next big American stars and Mladin beat him. Roberts had better machinery and what appeared to be a stronger desire to win, and Mladin showed him a thing or two more often than not.

Hodgson and BB's second stint on a Ducati stateside were not all that successful for a number of reasons. For Hodgson, I'm not convinced the bike wasn't up to it. He won a race in the wet and EBoz won a couple of races that season as well. Who knows what BB's deal was. There were a handful of people in Europe who said that based on his telemetry, if he was given a good bike he could have been very competitive that year. I'm assuming it was down to any combination of burn out, lack of focus, lack of confidence and a 999 at the end of it's development road. Probably best not to include BB in these sort of things, too mercurial.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 24 2009, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is the part of you post that had me laughing the loudest combined with confusion. Coming from a guy who has called John Hopkins a "sell out" no less. Dude, Austin, you are killing me bro. First of all, he isn't that old, remind me how old Bayliss was in his last title run? Nori isn't exactly a spring chicken either. Hahaha. Mladin wasn't alway this old either buddy, he was young after his 2, 3, 4, etc national title.
Like I've always said, Mladin should have left a long time ago. There's no denying that. He was 27 when he won his first title, there was time to go and he should have done it. He didn't, it set a precedent for himself. I wouldn't have gone that route but that's the route he chose to go. But at 37, he's already made his statement. He's not going to do it unless he gets paid. I personally think he could take some race wins in a rookie campaign on factory equipment. I don't think he could win a title in the first go but he'd be competitive. But at his age, what's the point in going to Europe for a pay cut without a real chance at a title? He'd need at least two years, and it's just not worth it for him to do it without the money. When you're 38, who knows what level he'll be at, even at a domestic level. Factor in the travel demands and PR schedule of a world championship and Mladin would be shot.

Meanwhile Hopkins made his choice at 24 and had yet to win anything. In hindsight, it's hard to turn down that sort of money. However when you turn down Ducati and spout off about how you'd hate to leave your project only to see the fruits of your labor reaped by someone else, then jump to (in my opinion inferior, certainly no better) team, then I have to question the reasoning why.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 24 2009, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You say he had a world championship experience and got paid ...., hahaha yeah well no ...., he didn't impress anybody. You say he got treated like ....? Let me ask you how much respect would Nicky have garnered had after 'really been treated like ....' at Honda post 06 he would have come to the AMA and clicked off 3 AMA titles? It might be a bit like sending Albert Pujols to double A ball and then showering him with some pass (as you are doing with Mladin) because he wins a batting title in double A.
From everything I read, he was rather impressive. He outrode his teammate but his French teammate got the ride on the French team if my memory serves me correctly. From what I gathered, he didn't get his fair shake and when it went sideways he said .... it, I'll go where I'm wanted.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 24 2009, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, I know you've been critical of Mladin, but I still think you give his attempt way too much credit and his supposed reason in the last few years has become even more laughable. For whatever reason he got paid a .... load of money in the US, why do you assign this as the standard that must be met on the world stage simply because Mladin says it is a stipulation? What's even more funny is this idea that he merits it without even proven he is capable and would deliver at a higher level. Tell me something Austin (and Pov) we in the States make the draft pics a major event, how may number 1 picks who excelled in college fizzled in the pros? This is exactly what Mladin is saying, 'I'm so good in college ball that I must be good in pro ball.
It's definitely a risk, however you look at what Spies has done in WSBK and what Hayden has done in MotoGP and how Mladin's times compared in January 2006 when he happened to be testing PI at the same time as WSBK. The chances of him being a flop aren't very big. Additionally, Ben Spies got his money. Spies went to Europe on the reputation of a couple of strong wildcard showings and that he had beat Mat Mladin twice and was on his way to a third consecutive time. He got his $2 million. If Mladin was the benchmark for Spies and Spies got his money, why shouldn't Mladin get his?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 24 2009, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Merry Christmas to you guys, and really, BEST WISHES![/b]
Happy Holidays to all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 24 2009, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Mladin was asking 5X his US salary,that would be in the neighborhood of 15 million dollars.
I'm pretty sure he's making more than $3 million, I've heard he's around $5 million.