Lorenzo robbed at Brno. Was he really?

Okay fine I'll drop it.

But as an aside and just because I'm curious (and have to ask a Brit to get an answer) is the BT feed and main Dorna feed the same?

JKant said:

Found it. Though still not entirely convinced. Are there any other pictures of the failed tire? With a wider angle I mean.

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I don't know what is not clear about this picture. No wider angle needed. Piece of the tyre is missing...

He went in, took out on slicks and came back in for the first bike, with same settings, new front tyre.
No one is dumb enough to send him out on tyers he does not feel safe on (his own words, he has trouble finding grip on wets as it is).

Iannone's tyre was even worse, but there is a reason he calls himself the maniac

Round 13: 2016 San Marino Grand Prix - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

You possibly missed it because the commentators were busy saying Lorenzo had lost his head because of the wet and was gambling on taking a slick tyre. In fact he dumped his bike with a delaminated tyre, did a lap on slicks, then returned to the pits for his first bike which by then was fitted with a new wet front tyre. It ruined his race and he got no points. Iannone was lucky not to get black flagged or worse, have his tyre explode as he chose to race on dangerously with his tyre shedding tread everywhere. Several other riders suffered tyre failure too, including Brad Smith and Dovi.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_fid=33886&share_type=t&share_pid=423611

Finish line said:

I don't know what is not clear about this picture. No wider angle needed. Piece of the tyre is missing...

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I thought a wider angle would reveal the background and explain when it was taken (i.e. during the race or after it).

JKant said:

Okay fine I'll drop it.

But as an aside and just because I'm curious (and have to ask a Brit to get an answer) is the BT feed and main Dorna feed the same?

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Likely, with different commentators.

Friend, you've been a great addition to this forum. Questioning official events is acceptable, just be prepared to make your case because this forum will dissect it to its core. I admire your attempt here even if I'm having a little bit of fun with it; with videos attached and rationale this was quite comprehensive.

MotoVudu for example is convinced Marquez was up to his needless aggressiveness and dirty tricks (and even accused Marc kicked Rossi) at Silverstone...though Misano, it was all good racing.

All we ask is that you come prepared to back up your theories with reasonable evidence and logic consistently applied. (Vudu hasn't got that memo.)

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

JKant said:

Found it. Though still not entirely convinced. Are there any other pictures of the failed tire? With a wider angle I mean.

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I am not quite sure what you are contending.

Several riders had failure of the Michelin "soft" wet front tyre, including Lorenzo (with pictorial evidence of the state of the tyre), Iannone, Dovi much earlier in the race, and iirc possibly Redding (EDIT ?Smith). Michelin acknowledged this, there was a statement from them and a discussion on motomatters. The only controversies post race did not concern whether it occurred, but whether it was a not unexpected consequence of riding that tyre in conditions which were not full wet (Bridgestone's wet wore out in that circumstance rather than suddenly failing), as Michelin more or less claimed, and whether a different riding style or superior tyre preservation skills, could make the tyre last race distance as it did for Rossi and MM, as opposed to the particular tyre involved varying in quality across and/or between batches, particularly given Dovi's tyre delaminated much earlier when conditions were still full wet.

There was also a discussion concerning another race where Rossi changed bikes at the "wrong" time about whether there should be radio communications so that riders and/or pit crews can make informed midrace tactical changes in regard to tyre choice or when to pit in flag to flag races, so I don't think there was anything untoward about Lorenzo going back out on a slick the first time. Michelin did apparently recommend the "hard" front wet which only Cal Crutchlow the winner of the race and one other rider employed, and the other discussion was that those who used the "soft" wet had made a calculated gamble in the knowledge that the tyre would not make the full distance expecting conditions would change suiting a switch to a slick shod bike midrace, another reason Jorge's pit crew might have been operating under that assumption and thought that was why Jorge came in.

The only things proven by the episode imo were that the tyre actually delaminating rather than just wearing out was unexpected whatever Michelin claim, and that the commentators on the coverage I was watching anyway have no clue and make it up as they go along.

I found the culprit behind the delaminations fleeing the Brno into the woods.

JKant said:

I agree its not gospel yes. But then you could arguably say the same about Lorenzo's testimony.

The crew had three minutes before Lorenzo was back in the pits. Three minutes to see to see him go away, get their curses in, notice the tire failure (Lorenzo didn't point it out) and switch the tires out.

Even assuming it would take just 60-75 seconds to actually change the tire I imagine it would provoked some degree frenzy in the paddock. Shouldn't have been that hard to miss for Grey.

I know I'm stretching quite a bit. The simpler explanation (offered by Lorenzo in this case) is usually the right one. Like I said, I was really hoping to see some other pics of the tire.

The current pic has a BT stamp.

Maybe someone recalls whether the BT feed was covering the pits while Lorenzo was doing his lap on the #2 bike?

(I thought they usually shared the main Dorna stream during the actual race with independent streams to cover the pre-race and post-race bit.)

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It's also possible Grey might not have been paying attention. God only knows what he does in the pits. He might have gone to try and hit on the Monster girls, and then over his earpiece hears them asking about why Lorenzo is pitting again to get back on the first bike. On the fly he is forced to say the only thing that will pass muster, nothing has been changed on the bike!

Why he said nothing was changed, who knows really. But since it wasn't Rossi coming in, I can see the focus being far less in the pits. If Rossi was coming in, they would have been dissecting the entire thing with the super slow motion camera replays.

The other thing too you have to remember is that Lorenzo was finished at that point of the race, so no one would care because Lorenzo doesn't sell bikes or tickets.

Honestly this is typical of the treatment Lorenzo et al get from some folks. If he says something, he's either lying or whinging excuses according to them.
If Rossi was making these statements etc, it'd be believed absolutely and the minions would be banging the drum to spread the word tar and wide.

Can you imagine the uproar if Lorenzo had podium and Rossi's tire chunked? Oh lord, there'd be hell to pay.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

JKant said:

I thought a wider angle would reveal the background and explain when it was taken (i.e. during the race or after it).

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There are gifs on instagram that show the situation (but it was so long ago they are not that easy to find anymore). He came in got of the bike, went to the other one, while his team members wanted to chat with him, he drove of and then it shows the tyre. So yes, during the race.

JPSLotus said:

I found the culprit behind the delaminations fleeing the Brno into the woods.

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Interesting article on 'alleged' tire delamination.

Btw, one correction, the black flag also exist to neutralize riders who have clearly psychologically melted down (often called the red mist) and become an immediate danger to others by deliberately and maliciously attacking fellow competitors with non racing maneuvers.


Anyway, regarding the alleged tire chunking:


http://www.gpone.com/en/20160822309...lence-re-destroyed-tyres-and-risk-taking.html

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Hahahaha holy ...., that was good Kitty.

found the video on youtube in case you don't believe me.

JKant said:

I imagine Dylan would have noticed them switching out a failed tire. Nothing else going on in the pits at the time..

And he was quite emphatic when he said the bike remained unchanged.

Also, I would have expected Lorenzo to at least gesture towards the tire when he was switching bikes and the team was trying to stop him. Tell them to have it switched (with intermediates) by the time he got back.

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Basically he was screwed in the race unless the slick could be made to work; he was faster than the place getters after the second bike change, to no avail.

Motokitty said:

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When you zoom in you begin to understand just what happened.



If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Finish line said:

found the video on youtube in case you don't believe me.

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Lorenzo is barely stopping and that one bloke Forcada is already tapping on his shoulder frantically, as Lorenzo leaves dude is shaking his head. Then focus on the tech who inspects the tire, signaling to the distraught Forcada. Hey hey, come here, look at this tire! Dude is having none of it, he's pissed then goes have a look. I especially like how they photoshopped, err video shopped in the chunked tire. That's some great CGI .... right there!

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Jumkie said:

When you zoom in you begin to understand just what happened.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

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...., I'm dying over here at these pictures.

You should throw in a 46 UFO hovering in the sky. LOL

JPSLotus said:

...., I'm dying over here at these pictures.

You should throw in a 46 UFO hovering in the sky. LOL

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Hahahah, I literally spat out my breakfast with laughter when I saw this. Very entertaining thread!