Lorenzo robbed at Brno. Was he really?

JKant · Sep 19, 2016

I'm finding it very hard to buy the tire failure theory.

- Lorenzo came in the first time because he had a tire failure with the wets.

- Team had the bike set up on slicks so he left on slicks.

Okay so far.

1. Now having done all that why did Lorenzo come back into the pits second time? (Self inflicted ride-through penalty?)

2. Why did he switch back to his first bike unchanged on wets?

3. Having gone back out on 'failed tires' in 17th place, a lap down on the race leaders how did he manage to be faster than the riders fighting for third place?

4. Also why did he start battling anyway? Was he fighting for 16th place with two laps to go?

LORENZO FIRST PIT

https://vimeo.com/183368039

(Leaves on slicks. Clearly visible.)

LORENZO SECOND PIT

https://vimeo.com/183370955

(Leaves on wets. Clearly visible.)

LORENZO BATTLING AFTER SECOND PIT

https://vimeo.com/183371681

(He also overtook Rossi on the latter's last lap.)
________________________________________________

To me it looks like one of two possibilities. Either the tire failure didn't affect Lorenzo at all (if anything it looked like it made him hell of a lot faster). Or it occurred on his last lap which began just after Crutchlow took the flag.

Also, what impact would bringing a used medium wet tire back upto temperature on a nearly dry track have on its construction?

p4p1 · Sep 19, 2016

Lorenzo has every right to pass the leaders of he has the pace to do so when behind.
He pitted twice because he can't communicate with his team that he wanted wets on the second bike and I'm also sure the rules state if you swap bikes you must leave with different tyres on. He did a lap on slicks and came back in because it was unsafe for him to stay on slicks.

He was faster than the leaders probably because he had newer tyres but before he pitted he had just put in the fastest lap so he could've had pace for all we know to beat them if the tyres hadn't failed.

JKant · Sep 19, 2016

- Has he gone back on the wet bike then Dylan? - Matt Birt

- Exactly the same. No change whatsoever from the one he came in on. - Dylan Grey

JPSLotus · Sep 19, 2016

Yamaha changed the front tire on his bike.

How long do you think it takes to change a tire?

It can be done in around 60-75 seconds for those mechanics.

Regarding battling it...if he had a fresh front tire...it's much easier to battle it out since you only have 6 laps or so left, and have no need to conserve the tire. It was mixed conditions at that point anyway. Everyone else was on worn tires trying to nurse them to the finish while he wasn't.

JKant · Sep 19, 2016

I imagine Dylan would have noticed them switching out a failed tire. Nothing else going on in the pits at the time..

And he was quite emphatic when he said the bike remained unchanged.

Also, I would have expected Lorenzo to at least gesture towards the tire when he was switching bikes and the team was trying to stop him. Tell them to have it switched (with intermediates) by the time he got back.

JKant · Sep 19, 2016

How was it covered on BT Sport? Did they mention a tire failure when he pitted?

JPSLotus · Sep 19, 2016

JKant said:
I imagine Dylan would have noticed them switching out a failed tire. Nothing else going on in the pits at the time..

And he was quite emphatic when he said the bike remained unchanged.

Except Yamaha didn't even catch the failed tire at first till they moved the bike.

It also makes little sense they did nothing, when you consider that they moved the bike, see a strip of compound missing, but decided, "Hey! Let's send the rider back out on the bike!" There was a thumb up to Lorenzo when he made the 2nd pit stop as he looked over looking for some sort of confirmation regarding the front tire.

Dylan didn't pick up on the front tire failure on the 1st pit stop. He may have seen them changing the old wet front out for a new wet front as nothing more than routine stuff. Unless they had swapped to inters, he wouldn't have considered anything changed otherwise.

JPSLotus · Sep 19, 2016

JKant said:
How was it covered on BT Sport? Did they mention a tire failure when he pitted?

No one on TV picked up on the tire failure to Lorenzo.

I wouldn't take Dylan Grey's word as gospel.

JPSLotus · Sep 19, 2016

This is from Kropo's race report on the Brno.

When Lorenzo came in for the second time, he switched back to wets, with a brand new front. That put him back into contention, and made him once again the fastest man on track. After such a strange sequence of events, the easy conclusion to draw was that Lorenzo was once again suffering in the wet.

The front tire was swapped out for a new one just like I said.

Jumkie · Sep 19, 2016

JP, can you link JKant the race thread that covered all this. We already posted all the answers.

Or...the short version:

Michelin quality control suck .....

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

JKant · Sep 19, 2016

Jumkie said:
JP, can you link JKant the race thread that covered all this. We already posted all the answers.

Found it. Though still not entirely convinced. Are there any other pictures of the failed tire? With a wider angle I mean.

Jumkie · Sep 19, 2016

JKant said:
Found it. Though still not entirely convinced. Are there any other pictures of the failed tire? With a wider angle I mean.

Friend, will a picture of Lorenzo's tire chunked "convince" you?

Or will Dovi's, or Iannone's, or.... get the picture?

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 19, 2016

JKant said:
How was it covered on BT Sport? Did they mention a tire failure when he pitted?

No, Keith Huewen got incredibly confused as per usual then started wittering on about Lorenzo's attitude.

The chronology of Lorenzo's tyre failure and pit stops was covered in chequered flag though.

Jumkie · Sep 19, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
No, Keith Huewen got incredibly confused as per usual then started wittering on about Lorenzo's attitude.

The chronology of Lorenzo's tyre failure and pit stops was covered in chequered flag though.

Here is a photoshopped picture. I included the tech to make it appear more authentic.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 19, 2016

Rossi was robbed at Mugello. Was he really?

I'm finding it very hard to buy the engine failure theory. etc. etc.

I've seen the footage, though still not entirely convinced. Are there any other pictures of the failed motor?

Jumkie · Sep 19, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
Rossi was robbed at Mugello. Was he really?

I'm finding it very hard to buy the engine failure theory. etc. etc.

I've seen the footage, though still not entirely convinced. Are there any other pictures of the failed motor?

Hold on there Kemosabe, I'm still working out the Area 51 alien landing.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

JKant · Sep 19, 2016

JPSLotus said:
No one on TV picked up on the tire failure to Lorenzo.

I wouldn't take Dylan Grey's word as gospel.

I agree its not gospel yes. But then you could arguably say the same about Lorenzo's testimony.

The crew had three minutes before Lorenzo was back in the pits. Three minutes to see to see him go away, get their curses in, notice the tire failure (Lorenzo didn't point it out) and switch the tires out.

Even assuming it would take just 60-75 seconds to actually change the tire I imagine it would provoked some degree frenzy in the paddock. Shouldn't have been that hard to miss for Grey.

I know I'm stretching quite a bit. The simpler explanation (offered by Lorenzo in this case) is usually the right one. Like I said, I was really hoping to see some other pics of the tire.

The current pic has a BT stamp.

Maybe someone recalls whether the BT feed was covering the pits while Lorenzo was doing his lap on the #2 bike?

(I thought they usually shared the main Dorna stream during the actual race with independent streams to cover the pre-race and post-race bit.)

JKant · Sep 19, 2016

Jumkie said:
Friend, will a picture of Lorenzo's tire chunked "convince" you?

Or will Dovi's, or Iannone's, or.... get the picture?

As you can see from my first post, I never disputed the fact that he had a tire failure. Just when it happened. There's no time stamp on the pic.

And what strikes me there is - if you want your tire changed, why wouldn't you point it out when you're switching bikes? Especially since your team has just 3 min to get a 1.5 min job done.

Jumkie · Sep 19, 2016

JKant said:
But then you could arguably say the same about Lorenzo's testimony.

The crew had three minutes before Lorenzo was back in the pits. Three minutes to see to see him go away, get their curses in, notice the tire failure (Lorenzo didn't point it out) and switch the tires out.

Even assuming it would take just 60-75 seconds to actually change the tire I imagine it would provoked some degree frenzy in the paddock. Shouldn't have been that hard to miss for Grey.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

Jumkie · Sep 19, 2016

JKant said:
As you can see from my first post, I never disputed the fact that he had a tire failure. Just when it happened. There's no time stamp on the pic.

And what strikes me there is - if you want your tire changed, why wouldn't you point it out when you're switching bikes? Especially since your team has just 3 min to get a 1.5 min job done.

Honestly friend, I don't get your skepticism over this event. It was fairly straight forward once we understood what happened. The fact several other riders experienced severe delamination should be case closed. What did you want Lorenzo to do? Pull up a PowerPoint presentation during his pit exchange?

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

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