Lets clear this up now.

Mental Anarchist · Jul 22, 2011

spooky said:
I know i know...they do care. Was just trying to wind Pov up a bit!

Cool.

povol · Jul 22, 2011

spooky said:
Whats more important though, race wins or world championships? I'd say the latter tbh. Casey has been more dominant, but very inconsistent (clearly the bike). This year either Casey or Jorge will match Rossi for WC's. Nobody gives a .... about race wins in reality, you get remembered for the amount of WC's won.... as it stands right now, Rossi has out performed your boy...i know its hard to accept Pov, its not for long though!

As do i

Whats there to clear up. Its crystal clear for anyone not wearing yellow shades. IF Stoner wins the title this year, he will be the dominant rider of the era.

Im not sure how much clearer i could have been on how i feel about the importance of championships when discussing head to head performance. Its also why i threw the Lorenzo scenario into the mix. One of the 2 is going to walk away with their second title this year, if its Stoner, end of argument. If its Lorenzo, and he is a couple of wins shy of Rossi in one less year, i personally would choose him as the most dominant rider of the 800 era, but it could be debated by many.

Tom · Jul 22, 2011

Viper-7 said:
Yeah sure insert a swear word here and there have a crack at me, READ it I have said neither of them have had a Good Bike when the other one has.

So until that happens, the best two riders we can compare are Lorenzo and Stoner.

I read what you said, you seem to have missed the point. There is no reason why two riders need to be on similar equipment at a similar time for a comparison between them to be valid. Over 5 years enough time passes that injuries, underperforming bikes or anomalies do not skew the big picture, yet you are set on such specific criteria that it suggests you either do not understand the sport you are watching, or the nature of the sport is not at all suited to what you are looking for. This is motogp.

povol · Jul 22, 2011

Tom said:
I read what you said, you seem to have missed the point. There is no reason why two riders need to be on similar equipment at a similar time for a comparison between them to be valid. Over 5 years enough time passes that injuries, underperforming bikes or anomalies do not skew the big picture, yet you are set on such specific criteria that it suggests you either do not understand the sport you are watching, or the nature of the sport is not at all suited to what you are looking for. This is motogp.

Exactly, before you know it, the bops will use the "throw out the high and low scenario" to ease their pain.

ptk50 · Jul 22, 2011

povol said:
Whats there to clear up. Its crystal clear for anyone not wearing yellow shades. IF Stoner wins the title this year, he will be the dominant rider of the era. Even counting his Rookie year, he has more wins than Rossi since he joined the series. Seems pretty damn clear, since Casey came into MotoGp, he has out performed Rossi. To top it off, he has done the huge majority of that work on an inferior machine.Here is one to ponder, If Lorenzo wins the title this year he could be the rider of the 800 era. Its not inconcievable for him catch Rossi in wins during the era, and tie him with titles, all in one less year

Please post your dealer's address - he must be supplying you some heavy duty stuff if you're even thinking - let alone expecting that.

"and tie him with titles, all in one less year" even in best case when do 1 plus 1 add up to 7

povol · Jul 22, 2011

ptk50 said:
Please post your dealer's address - he must be supplying you some heavy duty stuff if you're even thinking - let alone expecting that.

"and tie him with titles, all in one less year" even in best case when do 1 plus 1 add up to 7

Rossi has 7 titles in the 800 era? Wow, he is a god, he has 7 titles in 5 years. That is is unworldly.

spooky · Jul 22, 2011

povol said:
As do i

Whats there to clear up. Its crystal clear for anyone not wearing yellow shades. IF Stoner wins the title this year, he will be the dominant rider of the era.

Im not sure how much clearer i could have been on how i feel about the importance of championships when discussing head to head performance. Its also why i threw the Lorenzo scenario into the mix. One of the 2 is going to walk away with their second title this year, if its Stoner, end of argument. If its Lorenzo, and he is a couple of wins shy of Rossi in one less year, i personally would choose him as the most dominant rider of the 800 era, but it could be debated by many.

Noone's disagreeing with you mate, in terms of race wins Casey is the most dominant rider of the 800cc era, the reason for the wind up though was your insistence on reminding us every opportunity you can how great he is - something which all of us who follow moto-gp (even the so called boppers) already know!

povol · Jul 22, 2011

spooky said:
Noone's disagreeing with you mate, in terms of race wins Casey is the most dominant rider of the 800cc era, the reason for the wind up though was your insistence on reminding us every opportunity you can how great he is - something which all of us who follow moto-gp (even the so called boppers) already know!

I know they know, they just have an admittance problem.

Bigguy · Jul 22, 2011

One has to realize in the 'who is better' debate that you are viewing Stoner in his absolute prime, with Rossi closing in towards the end of his career. If I had to choose one or the other to ride for my (nonexistent) team today, I'd choose Stoner. If I had to choose with both riders are their peak, both in ability and desire, Rossi would be my choice hands down.

Anyone who thinks that Rossi only won because he had the best bikes is a fool. That point does not merit discussion.

povol · Jul 22, 2011

Bigguy said:
One has to realize in the 'who is better' debate that you are viewing Stoner in his absolute prime, with Rossi closing in towards the end of his career. If I had to choose one or the other to ride for my (nonexistent) team today, I'd choose Stoner. If I had to choose with both riders are their peak, both in ability and desire, Rossi would be my choice hands down.

Anyone who thinks that Rossi only won because he had the best bikes is a fool. That point does not merit discussion.

I agree, not only did he have the best bike, he was up against weaker competition.

Bigguy · Jul 22, 2011

There is no doubt that the level was upped from '06-'08 when the Pedrosa, Stoner and Lorenzo hit the big class. Special riders, every one.

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 22, 2011

Can one of you all pm me when this is cleared up. The suspense is killing me.

Tom · Jul 22, 2011

Bigguy said:
One has to realize in the 'who is better' debate that you are viewing Stoner in his absolute prime, with Rossi closing in towards the end of his career. If I had to choose one or the other to ride for my (nonexistent) team today, I'd choose Stoner. If I had to choose with both riders are their peak, both in ability and desire, Rossi would be my choice hands down.

No doubt about it. The point is that the 990cc era was Rossi's, while in the 800cc era he was 'just' one of the best riders in the world. Possibly not the most successful, but that remains to be seen

digger · Jul 22, 2011

up until the last race, this is the tale of the tape since stoner has been in motogp, this is too close to call i reckon, as it depends on what numbers you are looking at as to who has been the more successful rider, and this includes rossi's ......... season this year too:

STONER: 29.34% WIN RATE

30.43% POLE RATE

1379 W/C POINTS

1 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP

W/C POSTION 8TH, 1ST, 2ND, 4TH, 4TH

AVERAGE W/C POSTION 3.1666

ROSSI: 28.26% WIN RATE

20.65% POLE RATE

1498 W/C POINTS

2 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS

W/C POSITION 2ND, 3RD, 1ST,1ST, 3RD

AVERAGE W/C POSTION 1.666

Look at me, Im a mathamagician

edit: and for those that like to bag stoner out for his inhuman ability to chuck a multimillion $ motorcycle down the road, STONER: 14 DNF, ROSSI: 7 DNF.

birdman · Jul 22, 2011

povol said:
I agree, not only did he have the best bike, he was up against weaker competition.

No,no,no you forget he had to beat his great Italian rival Max Biaggi the strongest competitor Motogp has ever seen.

Mackie · Jul 22, 2011

digger said:
up until the last race, this is the tale of the tape since stoner has been in motogp, this is too close to call i reckon, as it depends on what numbers you are looking at as to who has been the more successful rider, and this includes rossi's ......... season this year too:

STONER: 29.34% WIN RATE

30.43% POLE RATE

1379 W/C POINTS

1 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP

W/C POSTION 8TH, 1ST, 2ND, 4TH, 4TH

AVERAGE W/C POSTION 3.1666

ROSSI: 28.26% WIN RATE

20.65% POLE RATE

1498 W/C POINTS

2 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS

W/C POSITION 2ND, 3RD, 1ST,1ST, 3RD

AVERAGE W/C POSTION 1.666

Look at me, Im a mathamagician

edit: and for those that like to bag stoner out for his inhuman ability to chuck a multimillion $ motorcycle down the road, STONER: 14 DNF, ROSSI: 7 DNF.

Interesting stats. I thought it would be more heavily swung in Stoners favor by now, however it seems as if he will need to improve a fair bit to really, indisputably claim the era.

digger · Jul 22, 2011

Mackie said:
Interesting stats. I thought it would be more heavily swung in Stoners favor by now, however it seems as if he will need to improve a fair bit to really, indisputably claim the era.

depends on what you look at I reckon, Im a Rossi fan, and wouldnt give the time of day to Casey Stoner, but I think the stats are in Stoners favour. Given the amount of times he has chucked it down the road, he has missed out on a lot of points.

For overall consistency, Rossi will get it everytime. Look at this year for instance. His season has been abysmal, but he is still sitting in 4th place, just because he keeps finishing. I couldnt be stuffed working out the podium percentages, too many numbers

birdman · Jul 22, 2011

Tom said:
No doubt about it. The point is that the 990cc era was Rossi's, while in the 800cc era he was 'just' one of the best riders in the world. Possibly not the most successful, but that remains to be seen

990cc era was Rossi's no doubt about it, no one was even close. Pity Doohan was retired. Just to speculate how good would it have been to see those two careers overlap. In pure riding talent I would say Rossi, but with bloody minded determination maybe Doohan could match him.

povol · Jul 22, 2011

digger said:
up until the last race, this is the tale of the tape since stoner has been in motogp, this is too close to call i reckon, as it depends on what numbers you are looking at as to who has been the more successful rider, and this includes rossi's ......... season this year too:

STONER: 29.34% WIN RATE

30.43% POLE RATE

1379 W/C POINTS

1 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP

W/C POSTION 8TH, 1ST, 2ND, 4TH, 4TH

AVERAGE W/C POSTION 3.1666

ROSSI: 28.26% WIN RATE

20.65% POLE RATE

1498 W/C POINTS

2 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS

W/C POSITION 2ND, 3RD, 1ST,1ST, 3RD

AVERAGE W/C POSTION 1.666

Look at me, Im a mathamagician

edit: and for those that like to bag stoner out for his inhuman ability to chuck a multimillion $ motorcycle down the road, STONER: 14 DNF, ROSSI: 7 DNF.

It also includes Stoners rookie year on a sattelite bike

Andy Roo · Jul 23, 2011

I couldn't be bothered working out the math but throwing Jorge into the mix wouldn't be bad either.

It may just be (drum roll)

Rossi has a good field of competitors and it is pretty evenly matched right now, which is good for racing, the last race was a beautiful case in point and Laguna is shaping up to be another powerhouse.

Also (to be a little bit of a Boner)

The Honda made Vale look good, the Yamaha made Vale look good

Stoner made the Ducati look good

Lets clear this up now.

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