<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 6 2009, 04:07 PM)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pete, its good seeing you on the board man. My first response was to laugh because I know most of your post is tongue and cheek (I've always liked your
man-sized sense of humor, something I miss around here with Roger being in his cave, at least we still have Curve). But I had a little extra time today to write you a bit more of a response (also since Austin took some glee in it), I thought, what the hell.
Hey Pete (or Austin) tell me something;
what year did Hopkins get beat by his teammate since he has been with Suzuki? Also, how do you rate Vermeulen? Because it seems from your assessment of Hopkins, then clearly Chris is .... too. I suppose you’re aware that in
prototype racing, machine matters. Now, I’m not gonna insult your intelligence Pete, because I’m very aware you know what you are talking about (though Austin, you are a bit of an enigma on your prudence of opinion sometimes). I suppose one gauge to compare a rider’s ability is to see how they faired against their teammate. So tell me, which year since the year that Hopkins joined Suzuki (2003) did he get beat by a teammate?
We have been talking about Kawasaki lately. So let me as you,
do you rate Suzuki better or worse than Kawasaki, is it a significant difference? I think people have very short memories when it comes to this sport. I suppose if most people would look back at this last season and say, well that’s easy, Kawasaki is the shittiest factory out there. Ah, but how easily they forget that
Suzuki has been just as bad, and sometimes worse!
You have
Austin, Migs, and Co. hating on Hopkins, and 'et tu Brupete'? Now like I said, you Pete, your opinion means something. But the best Austin/Migs can do is point to his
paycheck and conclude, yup, he must be ..... Not to mention chastising the 'man' for being a 'man'. If you haven't got too drunk to be late at work ever, then simply you're a ..... as Curve said, man card revoked without question. Please, this is by far the worst reason to .... on the guy. Man up you ........ Migs, well he just hates all things American and Austin, well we’ve had this conversation before about Hopkins, and he concluded John is a
“sell-out”. Interestingly the
CONTEXT points to a different picture; the year John left Suzuki was on the heals of Kawasaki’s best ever showing. Their rider, Randy DePuniet seemed to have a few moments of brilliance mixed with self inflicted disaster; Kawasaki seemed renewed in their commitment to race on the heals of the 2nd position finish in Japan, their home (talk about the place to impress).
Do you remember the context of that race in 07? This was when the only non-Japanese bike in a sea of Japanese brands not only won the race (Loris/Ducati) but also the championship (Stoner/Ducati)! Outch, a bit of pain and embarrassment is always a good spark to lite a fire in .... Can you imagine the meeting afterward? Now they did see some hope in Kawasaki’s chance because in that same race Team Green came in second. I suppose they figured, if only they could get a good rider that wouldn’t crash so much. That same year (07) they had the most wild card rides (3) which spoke to their willingness to develop further and the buzz was definitely:
‘they really mean business’. This is the context of the year that John jumped ship, and Austin calls this “selling-out”...amid Kawasaki’s promise of better things to come with a paycheck to back up the claim.
I suppose Austin would have preferred John stay with that MotoGP
‘juggernaut’ Suzuki (sarcasm). So Pete, just how good are they? Its so easy to .... on Kawasaki because they just looked so bad recently, but tell me,
what factory or satellite team has Suzuki beat in the last 5 years? A few posers here may be surprised to learn that even crappy Kawasaki beat Suzuki in the constructor’s points in 04. Hell, even Aprilia (the kids are saying, what, Aprilia was in MotoGP premier…) beat Suzuki in constructor’s points in 03.
Well here are the facts: John Hopkins has never been beat in year-end classification by a teammate on equal machinery while at Suzuki! Suzuki as a machine and effort have been the very bottom, below even the .... satellite teams most every year in constructor’s championship. They have been the worst Japanese effort most every year, even getting beat by Kawasaki in 04, including getting beat by microscopic factories such as Aprilia & Ducati (the years they were not competitive).
Anecdotal: Lately there’s been this rumor about Rossi challenging Bayliss. Many say it would be a
legitimate dogfight between two great racers, right? Well then, why do you suppose Bayliss left MotoGP? If we were to judge Bayliss’ MotoGP career (save Valencia) it would NOT look that great, would it? He only finished two places higher than Hopkins in 04 (in a season where Ducat & Kawasaki both beat Suzuki in constructor’s points)! So I could argue that Hopkins, while on a shittier bike to Troy’s Ducati, he still managed to only finish the season a mere two positions under. Hopkins finished one position higher in 05 to Troy (on that shortened season).
Here is the point, the narrow minded person looks at results only and
concludes, the rider this or that while NOT accounting for the
prototype nature of the game. This reminds me of when I sit down with
motorsport-ignorant friends to watch a race and they
conclude, man, those guys in the back are ..... I laugh it off because frankly, they don’t know ..... But here, on this site you have people like Migs and Austin who are fairly knowledgeable (though blinded by either national-envy or money-envy) make judgments about Hopkins being .... not realizing he as been on the shittiest bike any factory effort has fielded! (This point cannot be understated). Let me say that again, the facts point that Hopkins has been on the worst machine period! We are not even adding to the conversation that they ran Bstones when Michelin dominated (at a time where you didn’t hear the darlings of the sport crying about the disparity). Again, I ask,
how many titles would have Rossi (
"the standard of greatness") won on a Suzuki or Kawasaki from 03-08
? (What is your opinion on this question?) Keep in mind, that the only year Suzuki looked good was 07, the year that Rossi finished 3rd! So the year that Suzuki fielded their best bike for almost a decade, Hopkins finishes 4th, and the "greatest rider ever" (to some) finishes a mere one position higher!! So it seems, I would deduce that had Rossi been on the Suzuki, the best year of their bike, I still doubt he would have finished above Stoner and Ducati. So could you imagine the other years?
Anybody who thinks Hopkins is ...., doesn’t understand this sport.
(Side note, this is why I’m such a big fan of Kevin Schwantz. Because I believe he did what I’m describing above in that last paragraph; that is Schwantz took a pile of .... machine that was/is Suzuki and with the talent & skill of a Rossi type rider, actually won a championship! But to the child-like ignorant, newboot, snotnose ....., the feat is not fully appreciated.)
Come on Jum, you and I have had this discussion countless times before and you should know by now to mostly ignore everything negative I say about Hopkins. I've never said anything about his riding. The guy has talent. Like I've said countless times, my issue with the guy has to do with his decision making off the track and career choices. He rode his ... off since he got to GP and he has the scars to prove it. What he did at Suzuki was impressive. So much so that there were plenty of stories in 2004 that Ducati had offered him the ride Carlos Checa was eventually handed but Hopkins turned it down. By that standard, I rate CV quite highly as well.
You present Kawasaki pretty well and Suzuki pretty poorly. No doubt they are the bottom two factories and have been abysmal but both had very commendable seasons in 2007. RdP showed some promise but I'm a believer in his talent. He can't keep it upright be he can go fast. Meanwhile, Hopper got his first podium with Suzuki and CV managed to win one. I would agree with you that Kawasaki did appear to be on the upswing, but I would say that Suzuki looked the stronger of the two.
Some who have been here long enough know that I used to be a Hopper fan. But his stubborn attitude about being Kevin Schwantz was too much for me to take. I can't fathom why anyone would turn down Ducati to stay with Suzuki if for no other reason than to complete the ties that had accompanied his whole career, that he was the next Kevin Schwantz.
He's a hell of a rider, but he has been either stubborn or blindly loyal and chose a very interesting time to change that attitude.
..the ones that need to take it serious is ....... Kawasaki.
