Is KTM on the Brink of Withdrawal from MotoGP?

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That’s probably what KTM pays in addition to sponsorship revenue

If sponsorship alone paid for MotoGP then Suzuki wouldn’t of left and we would see teams not associated with motorcycle manufacturing such as Illmore

Title sponsorship in GP is pitifully cheap compared to what it costs in Formula 1. Red Bull is pulling in $100 million iirc from Oracle for that title sponsorship. I think the top sponsors in GP are putting in maybe 1/10th that amount. Hardly enough to subsidize the cost of a full-fledged factory outfit in this particular era of GP racing. But KTM who knows how much they were spending on just that outfit in GP alone. Red Bull sponsorship must go far perhaps.
 
I read that KTM racing budget is around 70 million euros per year, not sure if that is across all types of racing or just MotoGP,

The numbers get tricky because most of the manufacturers have a B2B marketing and client relationship apparatus attached to MotoGP. It's difficult to know exactly what they are spending on motorsport itself, and how much is several degrees removed from MotoGP, like running ads in various global markets during MotoGP races. Is that part of the budget? What about depreciation on factory equipment? Is that allocated to the team? Does Dorna show a gross commercial payment to the team, and then back out transportation costs from the commercial payments? Should the teams recognize transportation costs for moving race equipment via Dorna logistics?

The numbers can be exaggerated or understated quite easily.

Last I read (pre-pandemic, IIRC) the big teams were estimated to spend about $40M-$50M directly on prototyping and racing in the premier class, but those numbers could be inaccurate guestimates, as well.
 
True F1 is much bigger money. If one asked their coworkers which sports they watch the main answer would be the preferred team sport of their country and then if you asked about Motorsport most would say F1
Even before the liberty rebrand, and the teams now being 'franchises' whatever the frick that means. F1 is inherently more expensive than MotoGP simply because of the engine technology. For the 2014 regulations I think engine suppliers were nearly into the billion dollar category for development.
 
Even before the liberty rebrand, and the teams now being 'franchises' whatever the frick that means. F1 is inherently more expensive than MotoGP simply because of the engine technology. For the 2014 regulations I think engine suppliers were nearly into the billion dollar category for development.

Mercedes spent over 1 billion developing their engine for the 2014 season. No one could catch up because no one thought anyone would spend that kind of money on the 2014 power unit. One of the reasons why I don't rate Merc's championships that highly. As soon as everyone caught up, even though it took close to a decade, Merc hasn't been able to recover one bit outside of the odd win here and there.
 
Mercedes spent over 1 billion developing their engine for the 2014 season. No one could catch up because no one thought anyone would spend that kind of money on the 2014 power unit. One of the reasons why I don't rate Merc's championships that highly. As soon as everyone caught up, even though it took close to a decade, Merc hasn't been able to recover one bit outside of the odd win here and there.
I will always credit F1 for getting me into racing, but after seeing one lap of a MotoGP race, I never watched another second of F1. I find it truly dull. When you need DRS and rules about when it can be used and required pit stops to manufacture drama it means your sport isn't exciting on its own. These days, with no need to refuel, pit stops are just a chance for things to go south. (Ask Ricciardo about Monaco in 2016.) make the races shorter or force drivers to manage tires better. What MotoGP can and needs to learn from F1 is their marketing approach. Hopefully the Liberty takeover will help in that regard. Once a persons sees it, MotoGP sells itself.
 
Mercedes spent over 1 billion developing their engine for the 2014 season. No one could catch up because no one thought anyone would spend that kind of money on the 2014 power unit. One of the reasons why I don't rate Merc's championships that highly. As soon as everyone caught up, even though it took close to a decade, Merc hasn't been able to recover one bit outside of the odd win here and there.
And for a lot of their early championship seasons, the chassis was crap. It was just the engine that had such an advantage it negated the chassis deficencies. Look at Williams. An also ran in 2013 with a Renault engine to regular podium finishers in 2014 with a Mercedes.

I also deeply question their technical prowess since the ground effect regulations. They have not seemed to improve at all (a race win or two per yr). At least other teams like RBR and Ferrari, and more recently Mclaren, have shaken off their bad starts to both the Hybrid and Ground Effect era's.


I will always credit F1 for getting me into racing, but after seeing one lap of a MotoGP race, I never watched another second of F1. I find it truly dull. When you need DRS and rules about when it can be used and required pit stops to manufacture drama it means your sport isn't exciting on its own. These days, with no need to refuel, pit stops are just a chance for things to go south. (Ask Ricciardo about Monaco in 2016.) make the races shorter or force drivers to manage tires better. What MotoGP can and needs to learn from F1 is their marketing approach. Hopefully the Liberty takeover will help in that regard. Once a persons sees it, MotoGP sells itself.
Agree, I took a renewed interest with the new regulations in 2022, but nothing more than watching the highlights on Youtube.
 
I will always credit F1 for getting me into racing, but after seeing one lap of a MotoGP race, I never watched another second of F1. I find it truly dull. When you need DRS and rules about when it can be used and required pit stops to manufacture drama it means your sport isn't exciting on its own. These days, with no need to refuel, pit stops are just a chance for things to go south. (Ask Ricciardo about Monaco in 2016.) make the races shorter or force drivers to manage tires better. What MotoGP can and needs to learn from F1 is their marketing approach. Hopefully the Liberty takeover will help in that regard. Once a persons sees it, MotoGP sells itself.

Sometimes I am pretty certain most F1 fans are not actually racing fans tbh. There's no way as a racing fan you can tell me with a straight face that F1 is the best motorsport series on the planet if racing is of any real interest. I could name probably a dozen more race series that are far better to watch, MotoGP being at the top of the list for me. F1 is over-managed and has a very bland and sterile appearance to it. Actually perhaps clinical would be the right word for it. God knows there's no real on track action. I always tell people to watch both a F1 race and a MotoGP race at the same circuit and tell me which was the more enjoyable race to watch. F1 fans cried when Sepang dumped F1 and kept GP. I thought, wow if only every other circuit could do the same thing.

Monaco is also probably the shittiest motor race I've ever seen in the modern era. The cars are too large for the circuit. I don't even think there's been a good race at Monaco since perhaps 1984? I mean there have been memorable races since then certainly, but the 80s is generally the last time I thought the cars going around Monaco were even worth a damn to watch.
 
And for a lot of their early championship seasons, the chassis was crap. It was just the engine that had such an advantage it negated the chassis deficencies. Look at Williams. An also ran in 2013 with a Renault engine to regular podium finishers in 2014 with a Mercedes.

I also deeply question their technical prowess since the ground effect regulations. They have not seemed to improve at all (a race win or two per yr). At least other teams like RBR and Ferrari, and more recently Mclaren, have shaken off their bad starts to both the Hybrid and Ground Effect era's.



Agree, I took a renewed interest with the new regulations in 2022, but nothing more than watching the highlights on Youtube.

I don't think Merc knows how to build a chassis. It was a weak point when it was still a V8 formula...that thing used to chew up tires like crazy.

The engine advantage was such a joke that I pretty much stopped following outside of the odd race here and there since it was predictable as .....

I'm not a fan of the current ground effects era. Would much rather have seen the rules get changed to shorten up the insanely ridiculous wheelbases on the modern cars to reflect a car that has more in common with a go-kart than a Chevrolet Suburban where wheelbase is concerned. Plus if they had brought back the sliding skirts to seal the ground effects, I would have been a huge huge fan of that. But I guess we're too far advanced into the safety era to ever have such things allowed again.
 
Sometimes I am pretty certain most F1 fans are not actually racing fans tbh. There's no way as a racing fan you can tell me with a straight face that F1 is the best motorsport series on the planet if racing is of any real interest. I could name probably a dozen more race series that are far better to watch, MotoGP being at the top of the list for me. F1 is over-managed and has a very bland and sterile appearance to it. Actually perhaps clinical would be the right word for it. God knows there's no real on track action. I always tell people to watch both a F1 race and a MotoGP race at the same circuit and tell me which was the more enjoyable race to watch. F1 fans cried when Sepang dumped F1 and kept GP. I thought, wow if only every other circuit could do the same thing.

Monaco is also probably the shittiest motor race I've ever seen in the modern era. The cars are too large for the circuit. I don't even think there's been a good race at Monaco since perhaps 1984? I mean there have been memorable races since then certainly, but the 80s is generally the last time I thought the cars going around Monaco were even worth a damn to watch.

Most of them these days are Drive to Survive fans. It's cringe.

Even excluding them. To your initial statement, I agree 100%. When people say to me it is a prototype series. I respond with:

It is though?
All ECM's are manufactured and supplied by TAG (A subsidiary of McLaren)
All ECM software is the same (save for a few variables)
You have a choice of 4 engines
Many components are now common to all cars

Screams of a spec racing series. To me, it's simply a more expensive version of Indycar now. Also, with all these Tilkedromes and street courses that are all cut and paste, the racing is similar everywhere.

Remember when Bennetton with a Ford V8 would do well at places like Hungary and Monaco? And you knew Ferrari with V12s would dominated the old Hockenheim and Monza? I watched an onboard with Hakinnen in Spa 2000 recently, and decided to immediately watch a 2023 onboard. It looks like a computer game.

To me, the main reason I watch MotoGP is I see it and say 'I couldnt do that' whereas F1, it just looks so sterile.

I don't think Merc knows how to build a chassis. It was a weak point when it was still a V8 formula...that thing used to chew up tires like crazy.

The engine advantage was such a joke that I pretty much stopped following outside of the odd race here and there since it was predictable as .....

I'm not a fan of the current ground effects era. Would much rather have seen the rules get changed to shorten up the insanely ridiculous wheelbases on the modern cars to reflect a car that has more in common with a go-kart than a Chevrolet Suburban where wheelbase is concerned. Plus if they had brought back the sliding skirts to seal the ground effects, I would have been a huge huge fan of that. But I guess we're too far advanced into the safety era to ever have such things allowed again.
I collect model F1 cars (both 1/18 and 1/43) and I kid you not, when the rear wheels are aligned, a car from 15 yrs ago stops almost at the rear of the front wheels of a modern hybrid car. They are just so big and heavy.

Bring back the fire breathing V10's
 
So, back on topic. The-race did an podcast update on the KTM saga and seemed as unclear as us as to whether 2026 meant the end of 2026 or the start of. They also had some interesting musings regarding the rider market.

If Acosta and (to a lesser extent) Binder become available, factories will move heaven and Earth for them. Who is under threat?

For Acosta
Yamaha - Rins,
Ducati - Diggia (I can only see Ducati luring him with a factory contract, and if it ain't at the factory team, this is the only option)
Aprilia - Fernandez, Bezzechi
Honda - Marini, Zarco, Mir

For Binder:
Yamaha - Miller, Oliveira
Ducati - Alex Marquez, Morbidelli?
Aprilia - Fernandez
Honda - Zarco, Marini?
 
I don't think Merc knows how to build a chassis. It was a weak point when it was still a V8 formula...that thing used to chew up tires like crazy.

The engine advantage was such a joke that I pretty much stopped following outside of the odd race here and there since it was predictable as .....

I'm not a fan of the current ground effects era. Would much rather have seen the rules get changed to shorten up the insanely ridiculous wheelbases on the modern cars to reflect a car that has more in common with a go-kart than a Chevrolet Suburban where wheelbase is concerned. Plus if they had brought back the sliding skirts to seal the ground effects, I would have been a huge huge fan of that. But I guess we're too far advanced into the safety era to ever have such things allowed again.
It was a lot better in days of yore in the formula Cosworth era, when Alan Jones was wont to pass 3 cars in one corner, although I quickly preferred 500 GP bike racing when live broadcasting started in Australia back when Wayne Gardner was contending.

Aero killed F1. We can only hope it doesn’t do the same to GP bike racing.
 
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Potential KTM fire sale in the works ?

Auto Drive
January 3, 2025


When KTM’s insolvency proceedings revealed the Austrian motorcycle giant was sitting on a year’s worth of unsold inventory, the obvious question was: why not offload them at steep discounts to chip away at that €440 million liquidity gap? Well, it seems the answer is finally here—KTM might be gearing up for a clearance sale, offering a potential silver lining for fans of Austrian engineering amidst the chaos.

The Alpine Creditors Association (AKV) has issued a press statement following the first creditor's meeting concerning KTM AG's ongoing insolvency proceedings. Among the measures proposed to address KTM’s financial woes is a sweeping clearance sale through its retail network. While dates and specifics are still under wraps, other recommended measures appear to be in progress.

https://www.akv.at/akv-newsroom/presse/ktm-ag-information-1-tagsatzung-insolvenzverfahren
 
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Potential KTM fire sale in the works ?

Auto Drive
January 3, 2025


When KTM’s insolvency proceedings revealed the Austrian motorcycle giant was sitting on a year’s worth of unsold inventory, the obvious question was: why not offload them at steep discounts to chip away at that €440 million liquidity gap? Well, it seems the answer is finally here—KTM might be gearing up for a clearance sale, offering a potential silver lining for fans of Austrian engineering amidst the chaos.

The Alpine Creditors Association (AKV) has issued a press statement following the first creditor's meeting concerning KTM AG's ongoing insolvency proceedings. Among the measures proposed to address KTM’s financial woes is a sweeping clearance sale through its retail network. While dates and specifics are still under wraps, other recommended measures appear to be in progress.

https://www.akv.at/akv-newsroom/presse/ktm-ag-information-1-tagsatzung-insolvenzverfahren

A boon for street riders, but fraught with peril. Consumers will need details about the deal to keep KTM operational, but those details have not been forthcoming because the Austrian government doesn't want to get ripped off. This isn't like Nissan, where everyone on earth knows they are getting bailed out somehow.

If they did liquidate the inventory, they could collapse the bid price for their products, which would make recovery impossible. If the market adjusts to $8,000 KTM bikes, unclear riders will pay $16,000 in 2-3 years, especially if lightly used prices drop sharply. VW is a good example. They slashed prices after dieselgate to keep maintain US operations.

Fire sale could ward off potential buyers, unless Austria is ready to make a move. Regulators don't care. It's not their money.

So I'm starting to lean towards Austrian bailout if the fire sale happens.
 
The sale price will probably reflect the objectives of the creditors. If they plan to simply strip KTM of its assets to pay it's debts then the sale price will be based on moving those assets quickly with disregard for the long term impact

Considering they have around 1 years unsold inventory they will need to considerably reduce the price and what would that be? 2023 model 50% off, 2024 model 25% off ?
 
So I'm starting to lean towards Austrian bailout if the fire sale happens.
I think that is inevitable, no matter what.

Remember the 'Too Big to fail' situation where to US government bailed out the banks and the big 3 auto makers in 2008? It's BS in my opinion. Though should be allowed to fail and the governments should bail out the workers, not the corporations. What is Stefan Pierer losing in all of this? It's always the same, Privatise the profits, socialise the losses.
 
The sale price will probably reflect the objectives of the creditors. If they plan to simply strip KTM of its assets to pay it's debts then the sale price will be based on moving those assets quickly with disregard for the long term impact

Considering they have around 1 years unsold inventory they will need to considerably reduce the price and what would that be? 2023 model 50% off, 2024 model 25% off ?
Local new 2024 KTM RC390 ad today here in Canada, that is around $ 4100 US (not including shipping and taxes of course).

My local dealer told me that there are going to be rebates coming soon on unsold bikes in the system, that KTM will not be producing as many 2025 bikes this year. Not sure how that would work, and who would actually payout the rebates if not applied during the sales transaction.
 

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I think that is inevitable, no matter what.

Remember the 'Too Big to fail' situation where to US government bailed out the banks and the big 3 auto makers in 2008? It's BS in my opinion. Though should be allowed to fail and the governments should bail out the workers, not the corporations. What is Stefan Pierer losing in all of this? It's always the same, Privatise the profits, socialise the losses.

Well, everyone also thought Saab and Volvo were too big to fail, but Sweden let the former fail and approved the sale of the latter to the Chinese.

I could see KTM going either way. In my opinion, Austria is leaning towards private intervention (Western), with government bailout as a fallback, but it's possible that KTM doesn't have a way forward. The company has been poorly managed (understatement). Without new management Austria doesn't have a way forward.

When the US companies were bailed out, the obvious plan was to transition from maximum car transportation for US citizens to maximum alternative energy as part of a neo-cold-war with Russia. We even postponed/cancelled Keystone XL to pry Venezuela from their sphere of influence. What's the obvious plan for KTM? A dirtbike in every garage? Overpriced electric bicycles for every European?

I find it interesting, and a bit depressing, that the Race Ready manufacturer is going down in flames. Shows the state of 2-wheeled motorsport--prospector's claim full of mostly fools gold. The FIM and manufacturers are stuck in the dark ages.
 
SAAB was and is an aerospace and defence industry corporation that dabbled a bit in the motor industry.

It's name is literally Swedish Aeroplane Stock Company

Volvo was first sold to Ford. It's Ford that sold them on.

Sweden let many of their big manufacturering companies go public, and due to the relative size of their economy, global.

Husqvarna anyone? Husaberg?
Ericsson before Sony?
 
I have been watching this for a few weeks now... KTM has a good product, its competitively priced, and sot after. KTM's R&D is as good as any in the industry. The issue is the top of the company, 25 years ago KTM was still a small company compared to the rest of the industry. From about 2012 (when they signed Dungee) the company seemed to double in success and popularity each year, as the company went bigger every year eventually joining MotoGP. The company did well during Covid, but was not prepared for the post covid slowdown, and that was the problem. The other problem is how the company is financially structured (like a smaller company), and financial regulations in Austriia and Europe.
 
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