Is KTM on the Brink of Withdrawal from MotoGP?

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
That’s probably what KTM pays in addition to sponsorship revenue

If sponsorship alone paid for MotoGP then Suzuki wouldn’t of left and we would see teams not associated with motorcycle manufacturing such as Illmore

Title sponsorship in GP is pitifully cheap compared to what it costs in Formula 1. Red Bull is pulling in $100 million iirc from Oracle for that title sponsorship. I think the top sponsors in GP are putting in maybe 1/10th that amount. Hardly enough to subsidize the cost of a full-fledged factory outfit in this particular era of GP racing. But KTM who knows how much they were spending on just that outfit in GP alone. Red Bull sponsorship must go far perhaps.
 
I read that KTM racing budget is around 70 million euros per year, not sure if that is across all types of racing or just MotoGP,

The numbers get tricky because most of the manufacturers have a B2B marketing and client relationship apparatus attached to MotoGP. It's difficult to know exactly what they are spending on motorsport itself, and how much is several degrees removed from MotoGP, like running ads in various global markets during MotoGP races. Is that part of the budget? What about depreciation on factory equipment? Is that allocated to the team? Does Dorna show a gross commercial payment to the team, and then back out transportation costs from the commercial payments? Should the teams recognize transportation costs for moving race equipment via Dorna logistics?

The numbers can be exaggerated or understated quite easily.

Last I read (pre-pandemic, IIRC) the big teams were estimated to spend about $40M-$50M directly on prototyping and racing in the premier class, but those numbers could be inaccurate guestimates, as well.
 
True F1 is much bigger money. If one asked their coworkers which sports they watch the main answer would be the preferred team sport of their country and then if you asked about Motorsport most would say F1
Even before the liberty rebrand, and the teams now being 'franchises' whatever the frick that means. F1 is inherently more expensive than MotoGP simply because of the engine technology. For the 2014 regulations I think engine suppliers were nearly into the billion dollar category for development.
 
Even before the liberty rebrand, and the teams now being 'franchises' whatever the frick that means. F1 is inherently more expensive than MotoGP simply because of the engine technology. For the 2014 regulations I think engine suppliers were nearly into the billion dollar category for development.

Mercedes spent over 1 billion developing their engine for the 2014 season. No one could catch up because no one thought anyone would spend that kind of money on the 2014 power unit. One of the reasons why I don't rate Merc's championships that highly. As soon as everyone caught up, even though it took close to a decade, Merc hasn't been able to recover one bit outside of the odd win here and there.
 
Mercedes spent over 1 billion developing their engine for the 2014 season. No one could catch up because no one thought anyone would spend that kind of money on the 2014 power unit. One of the reasons why I don't rate Merc's championships that highly. As soon as everyone caught up, even though it took close to a decade, Merc hasn't been able to recover one bit outside of the odd win here and there.
I will always credit F1 for getting me into racing, but after seeing one lap of a MotoGP race, I never watched another second of F1. I find it truly dull. When you need DRS and rules about when it can be used and required pit stops to manufacture drama it means your sport isn't exciting on its own. These days, with no need to refuel, pit stops are just a chance for things to go south. (Ask Ricciardo about Monaco in 2016.) make the races shorter or force drivers to manage tires better. What MotoGP can and needs to learn from F1 is their marketing approach. Hopefully the Liberty takeover will help in that regard. Once a persons sees it, MotoGP sells itself.
 
Mercedes spent over 1 billion developing their engine for the 2014 season. No one could catch up because no one thought anyone would spend that kind of money on the 2014 power unit. One of the reasons why I don't rate Merc's championships that highly. As soon as everyone caught up, even though it took close to a decade, Merc hasn't been able to recover one bit outside of the odd win here and there.
And for a lot of their early championship seasons, the chassis was crap. It was just the engine that had such an advantage it negated the chassis deficencies. Look at Williams. An also ran in 2013 with a Renault engine to regular podium finishers in 2014 with a Mercedes.

I also deeply question their technical prowess since the ground effect regulations. They have not seemed to improve at all (a race win or two per yr). At least other teams like RBR and Ferrari, and more recently Mclaren, have shaken off their bad starts to both the Hybrid and Ground Effect era's.


I will always credit F1 for getting me into racing, but after seeing one lap of a MotoGP race, I never watched another second of F1. I find it truly dull. When you need DRS and rules about when it can be used and required pit stops to manufacture drama it means your sport isn't exciting on its own. These days, with no need to refuel, pit stops are just a chance for things to go south. (Ask Ricciardo about Monaco in 2016.) make the races shorter or force drivers to manage tires better. What MotoGP can and needs to learn from F1 is their marketing approach. Hopefully the Liberty takeover will help in that regard. Once a persons sees it, MotoGP sells itself.
Agree, I took a renewed interest with the new regulations in 2022, but nothing more than watching the highlights on Youtube.
 
I will always credit F1 for getting me into racing, but after seeing one lap of a MotoGP race, I never watched another second of F1. I find it truly dull. When you need DRS and rules about when it can be used and required pit stops to manufacture drama it means your sport isn't exciting on its own. These days, with no need to refuel, pit stops are just a chance for things to go south. (Ask Ricciardo about Monaco in 2016.) make the races shorter or force drivers to manage tires better. What MotoGP can and needs to learn from F1 is their marketing approach. Hopefully the Liberty takeover will help in that regard. Once a persons sees it, MotoGP sells itself.

Sometimes I am pretty certain most F1 fans are not actually racing fans tbh. There's no way as a racing fan you can tell me with a straight face that F1 is the best motorsport series on the planet if racing is of any real interest. I could name probably a dozen more race series that are far better to watch, MotoGP being at the top of the list for me. F1 is over-managed and has a very bland and sterile appearance to it. Actually perhaps clinical would be the right word for it. God knows there's no real on track action. I always tell people to watch both a F1 race and a MotoGP race at the same circuit and tell me which was the more enjoyable race to watch. F1 fans cried when Sepang dumped F1 and kept GP. I thought, wow if only every other circuit could do the same thing.

Monaco is also probably the shittiest motor race I've ever seen in the modern era. The cars are too large for the circuit. I don't even think there's been a good race at Monaco since perhaps 1984? I mean there have been memorable races since then certainly, but the 80s is generally the last time I thought the cars going around Monaco were even worth a damn to watch.
 
And for a lot of their early championship seasons, the chassis was crap. It was just the engine that had such an advantage it negated the chassis deficencies. Look at Williams. An also ran in 2013 with a Renault engine to regular podium finishers in 2014 with a Mercedes.

I also deeply question their technical prowess since the ground effect regulations. They have not seemed to improve at all (a race win or two per yr). At least other teams like RBR and Ferrari, and more recently Mclaren, have shaken off their bad starts to both the Hybrid and Ground Effect era's.



Agree, I took a renewed interest with the new regulations in 2022, but nothing more than watching the highlights on Youtube.

I don't think Merc knows how to build a chassis. It was a weak point when it was still a V8 formula...that thing used to chew up tires like crazy.

The engine advantage was such a joke that I pretty much stopped following outside of the odd race here and there since it was predictable as .....

I'm not a fan of the current ground effects era. Would much rather have seen the rules get changed to shorten up the insanely ridiculous wheelbases on the modern cars to reflect a car that has more in common with a go-kart than a Chevrolet Suburban where wheelbase is concerned. Plus if they had brought back the sliding skirts to seal the ground effects, I would have been a huge huge fan of that. But I guess we're too far advanced into the safety era to ever have such things allowed again.
 
Sometimes I am pretty certain most F1 fans are not actually racing fans tbh. There's no way as a racing fan you can tell me with a straight face that F1 is the best motorsport series on the planet if racing is of any real interest. I could name probably a dozen more race series that are far better to watch, MotoGP being at the top of the list for me. F1 is over-managed and has a very bland and sterile appearance to it. Actually perhaps clinical would be the right word for it. God knows there's no real on track action. I always tell people to watch both a F1 race and a MotoGP race at the same circuit and tell me which was the more enjoyable race to watch. F1 fans cried when Sepang dumped F1 and kept GP. I thought, wow if only every other circuit could do the same thing.

Monaco is also probably the shittiest motor race I've ever seen in the modern era. The cars are too large for the circuit. I don't even think there's been a good race at Monaco since perhaps 1984? I mean there have been memorable races since then certainly, but the 80s is generally the last time I thought the cars going around Monaco were even worth a damn to watch.

Most of them these days are Drive to Survive fans. It's cringe.

Even excluding them. To your initial statement, I agree 100%. When people say to me it is a prototype series. I respond with:

It is though?
All ECM's are manufactured and supplied by TAG (A subsidiary of McLaren)
All ECM software is the same (save for a few variables)
You have a choice of 4 engines
Many components are now common to all cars

Screams of a spec racing series. To me, it's simply a more expensive version of Indycar now. Also, with all these Tilkedromes and street courses that are all cut and paste, the racing is similar everywhere.

Remember when Bennetton with a Ford V8 would do well at places like Hungary and Monaco? And you knew Ferrari with V12s would dominated the old Hockenheim and Monza? I watched an onboard with Hakinnen in Spa 2000 recently, and decided to immediately watch a 2023 onboard. It looks like a computer game.

To me, the main reason I watch MotoGP is I see it and say 'I couldnt do that' whereas F1, it just looks so sterile.

I don't think Merc knows how to build a chassis. It was a weak point when it was still a V8 formula...that thing used to chew up tires like crazy.

The engine advantage was such a joke that I pretty much stopped following outside of the odd race here and there since it was predictable as .....

I'm not a fan of the current ground effects era. Would much rather have seen the rules get changed to shorten up the insanely ridiculous wheelbases on the modern cars to reflect a car that has more in common with a go-kart than a Chevrolet Suburban where wheelbase is concerned. Plus if they had brought back the sliding skirts to seal the ground effects, I would have been a huge huge fan of that. But I guess we're too far advanced into the safety era to ever have such things allowed again.
I collect model F1 cars (both 1/18 and 1/43) and I kid you not, when the rear wheels are aligned, a car from 15 yrs ago stops almost at the rear of the front wheels of a modern hybrid car. They are just so big and heavy.

Bring back the fire breathing V10's
 
So, back on topic. The-race did an podcast update on the KTM saga and seemed as unclear as us as to whether 2026 meant the end of 2026 or the start of. They also had some interesting musings regarding the rider market.

If Acosta and (to a lesser extent) Binder become available, factories will move heaven and Earth for them. Who is under threat?

For Acosta
Yamaha - Rins,
Ducati - Diggia (I can only see Ducati luring him with a factory contract, and if it ain't at the factory team, this is the only option)
Aprilia - Fernandez, Bezzechi
Honda - Marini, Zarco, Mir

For Binder:
Yamaha - Miller, Oliveira
Ducati - Alex Marquez, Morbidelli?
Aprilia - Fernandez
Honda - Zarco, Marini?
 
I don't think Merc knows how to build a chassis. It was a weak point when it was still a V8 formula...that thing used to chew up tires like crazy.

The engine advantage was such a joke that I pretty much stopped following outside of the odd race here and there since it was predictable as .....

I'm not a fan of the current ground effects era. Would much rather have seen the rules get changed to shorten up the insanely ridiculous wheelbases on the modern cars to reflect a car that has more in common with a go-kart than a Chevrolet Suburban where wheelbase is concerned. Plus if they had brought back the sliding skirts to seal the ground effects, I would have been a huge huge fan of that. But I guess we're too far advanced into the safety era to ever have such things allowed again.
It was a lot better in days of yore in the formula Cosworth era, when Alan Jones was wont to pass 3 cars in one corner, although I quickly preferred 500 GP racing when live broadcasting started in Australia back when Wayne Gardner was contending. Aero killed F1.
 
Back
Top