Interview with Martin Raines

birdman · Nov 21, 2013

chopperman

3693851385065747

Do you know what. We have been over and over this with povol so many times i just can't be arsed any more. He thinks in true republican debating style that if he re-posts enough times it will make it true. ""rolls eyes""

We all do this to varying degrees, troll the net looking for acticles that suit whatever agenda we have. I admit I do it. How about you and Talpa? Anyway, even though I want to agree with Pov on this one so much, the problem is in 2008 and 2009 Rossi did race the fast starters on full tanks and cold tires and he beat them, and no-one has won two in a row since. So not much would have changed regardless when Rossi raced. The reason is Rossi's greatest atribute imo is his cunning and political skill in making sure he is in the best possible position to rack up the wins. Credit to him then.

birdman · Nov 21, 2013

chopperman

3694231385083748

Yup. The good old days. Dont under estimate Kenny jnr, he was a great rider. Remember the time he nearly won a race on his dads TeamKR bike ? Pity his mis-counted the laps haha. Back in 2006 all us powersliders (wasn't called that back then) had our names put all over the TeamKR bike for a race. I think mine was on the tail piece.

Cool, how the hell did you manage that? Jumkie threaten to stalk him to his dying days? Or Jumkie kept writing him letters to wear him down? Were you sponsors?

Keshav · Nov 21, 2013

Talpa

3693831385064574

You sir are a complete tool

According to you this is true of everyone who doesn't believe that Rossi is God.

Just once it would be nice if you could substitute facts or logic in place of mindless insults. :grin:

Austin · Nov 21, 2013

chopperman

3693711385059834

In fact him and Biaggi swapped bikes and , well we all know what happened next.

Yamaha presented him with a number of brand-new chassis and engine configurations to choose from?

Jumkie · Nov 21, 2013

birdman

3694251385083979

Cool, how the hell did you manage that? Jumkie threaten to stalk him to his dying days? Or Jumkie kept writing him letters to wear him down? Were you sponsors?

This was a great gesture to all the fans that supported KR and were fans of the sport in general. KR offered a form for fans to submit their names and each name was then placed as a decal on the fairings and various parts of the bike. You could look it up by name and where your name was affixed on the machine. Still today I am sometimes reminded of this and can say: Once upon a time, in a MotoGP race, a machine that competed raced with my name on it (and the names of other various friends)! Very cool memory. And better yet, very cool of Team Roberts to offer such a memento to us fans.

BarryMachine · Nov 21, 2013

povol

3693801385062132

No, thats pretty much a fact. In some years he had a superior bike, tires, AND inferior competition, but mostly it was inferior competition. I am really starting to wonder if he wasnt an underachiever considering everything that was stacked in his favor. :lol:

Bang on the money.

bluegreen · Nov 22, 2013

Jesus, this thread is straight out of 2011...

J4rn0 · Nov 22, 2013

povol

3693601385054883

No question. Todays equivalent of Biaggi or Gibernau would be Pedrosa, and he has more wins than those 2 combined.

Lorenzo would most likely be headed for his 5th in a row if not for Stoner and Marquez. Like you said, its all about timing, and Rossi had it in spades for the first half of his career.

Five in a row means he should have won every year including 2009 -- wonder why he didn't win 2009 (or even 2008 if he was that good)?

Marquez was not yet there and Stoner had his share of problems, same for the Honda riders...

Don't tell me he lost to Rossi, a man who could only win against 2nd tier riders?

chopperman · Nov 22, 2013

Austin

3694301385090888

Yamaha presented him with a number of brand-new chassis and engine configurations to choose from?

Not at the beginning. I think the fact Barros won at estoril of the season when the won the race at Jerez. I think the fact Barros won at Estoril shows the yam was far from sorted at the beginning.

povol · Nov 22, 2013

J4rn0

3694511385129885

Five in a row means he should have won every year including 2009 -- wonder why he didn't win 2009 (or even 2008 if he was that good)?

Marquez was not yet there and Stoner had his share of problems, same for the Honda riders...

Don't tell me he lost to Rossi, a man who could only win against 2nd tier riders?

Do the math. I said he would be headed to five in a row, not that he would have already won 5 in a row.

J4rn0 · Nov 22, 2013

povol

3694701385145825

Do the math. I said he would be headed to five in a row, not that he would have already won 5 in a row.

Right. He could have won 5 titles if Stoner and Marquez weren't there. But they were there, just as Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa were all very much there in 2008 and 2009, when Rossi won his last titles.

So what about your initial assertion that Rossi was able to win only against a (supposedly) weaker opposition? It's obvious BS, right?

Truth is, to win a title you have to beat whoever else is there. If you do, you are the champion. Can't fault someone for not beating who wasn't there... especially if he actually beat them later, more than once.

Calling Rossi a fake because he can't beat these younger guys forever is ridiculous.

Austin · Nov 22, 2013

chopperman

3694531385130675

Not at the beginning. I think the fact Barros won at estoril of the season when the won the race at Jerez. I think the fact Barros won at Estoril shows the yam was far from sorted at the beginning.

What?

chopperman · Nov 22, 2013

Austin

3694841385161457

What?

Yeah, i didn't write that very well at all lol. What i meant to say was Rossi won at Jerez in 05 on Biaggi's bike. I don't believe it had any real improvements at that time. The fact Barros then went on to beat Rossi in the second race at estoril proves that. Also i got 2004 and 2005 a bit mixed up, so just ignore me lol

Austin · Nov 22, 2013

chopperman

3694851385161722

Yeah, i didn't write that very well at all lol. What i meant to say was Rossi won at Jerez in 05 on Biaggi's bike. I don't believe it had any real improvements at that time. The fact Barros then went on to beat Rossi in the second race at estoril proves that. Also i got 2004 and 2005 a bit mixed up, so just ignore me lol

Ha, will do. Maybe Arrab can back me up on this as we've had this conversation a number of times, but I recall that Rossi was presented with a number of chassis and engine configurations during winter testing prior to the 2004 season. His first M1 was vastly different than the 2003 model, which didn't score a single win in the hands of Checa or Barros—which could've been part of the problem.

chopperman · Nov 22, 2013

Austin

3694861385162166

Ha, will do. Maybe Arrab can back me up on this as we've had this conversation a number of times, but I recall that Rossi was presented with a number of chassis and engine configurations during winter testing prior to the 2004 season. His first M1 was vastly different than the 2003 model, which didn't score a single win in the hands of Checa or Barros—which could've been part of the problem.

From memory, i dont recall the chassis being the issue with the yam back then. IIRC Biaggi was always banging on about the slipper clutch hampering him. The point really being that the invincible RC211v that according to Biaggi was unbeatable was in fact beaten. The only real difference being the rider. I'm not suggesting nthe RCV211v was not a superior bike , but it did prove the rider can and did make the difference.

povol · Nov 22, 2013

J4rn0

3694791385159505

Right. He could have won 5 titles if Stoner and Marquez weren't there. But they were there, just as Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa were all very much there in 2008 and 2009, when Rossi won his last titles.

So what about your initial assertion that Rossi was able to win only against a (supposedly) weaker opposition? It's obvious BS, right?

Truth is, to win a title you have to beat whoever else is there. If you do, you are the champion. Can't fault someone for not beating who wasn't there... especially if he actually beat them later, more than once.

Calling Rossi a fake because he can't beat these younger guys forever is ridiculous.

Lets see, 08, the year that Dorna stole away years of Ducati and Bridgestones hard work and gave it to Rossi, not Pedrosa, not Lorenzo. Not only did they give Rossi Ducatri's tires, they changed the construction to Rossi's preference, , forever ....... Ducati and Stoner, do we need to go on.

Austin · Nov 22, 2013

chopperman

3694871385162454

From memory, i dont recall the chassis being the issue with the yam back then. IIRC Biaggi was always banging on about the slipper clutch hampering him. The point really being that the invincible RC211v that according to Biaggi was unbeatable was in fact beaten. The only real difference being the rider. I'm not suggesting nthe RCV211v was not a superior bike , but it did prove the rider can and did make the difference.

No argument from me. Biaggi ate his words. All I would say is I don't believe Max was given quite such an array of options in development. This is not to suggest he was ignored as has been a claim levied against Ducati, just that I don't believe Yamaha had as much invested in Biaggi's success as they did in Rossi's.

chopperman · Nov 22, 2013

povol

3694881385162957

Lets see, 08, the year that Dorna stole away years of Ducati and Bridgestones hard work and gave it to Rossi, not Pedrosa, not Lorenzo. Not only did they give Rossi Ducatri's tires, they changed the construction to Rossi's preference, , forever ....... Ducati and Stoner, do we need to go on.

What ?? Pedrosa went to bridgstones in 08. In fact Rossi's Michelin contract had expired which left him free to contract to another supplier, unlike pedrosa. Besides Michelin were in talks at the time about pulling out of racing, this in the wake of tyre chunking issues in motogp.

chopperman · Nov 22, 2013

Austin

3694891385163349

No argument from me. Biaggi ate his words. All I would say is I don't believe Max was given quite such an array of options in development. This is not to suggest he was ignored as has been a claim levied against Ducati, just that I don't believe Yamaha had as much invested in Biaggi's success as they did in Rossi's.

Given or he didn't know what to ask for ? That's face it, some great riders couldn't develop a cold let alone a racing motorcycle.

J4rn0 · Nov 22, 2013

povol

3694881385162957

Lets see, 08, the year that Dorna stole away years of Ducati and Bridgestones hard work and gave it to Rossi, not Pedrosa, not Lorenzo. Not only did they give Rossi Ducatri's tires, they changed the construction to Rossi's preference, , forever ....... Ducati and Stoner, do we need to go on.

Oh god, I forgot the conspiracies.

Anyway Pedro got his Bridgestones before 2008 end anyway, no? And all these great riders were on Bridgestones in 2009... Hmmm...

If you really believe Bridgestone changed construction to suit Rossi's preferences, then you'd have to explain why they stopped doing that later when he needed it most -- but I'm sure you'll find a convenient explanation for that as well. It's so wasy to write (or rewrite) history that way, isn't it.

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