interview with Lorenzo (in italian)

Arrabbiata1 said:

You are correct about the RCV211v which won races out of the crate. In fact either Alex Briggs or Brent Stephens (forget which) later commented that they used to mess around with the settings largely out of boredom - how times change

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Most interesting thing I've noticed is Alex Briggs saying how all the crew are really enjoying themselves again, working really hard and figuring out problems, which is what they love. Didn't have to do that at Yamaha, bike was sorted. Tells you all you need to know about the state of the Ducati.



FWIW, it's clear to me that Rossi is in a league of his own in terms of bike development, and he has a fantastic team around him, and Burgess is an exceptional crew chief, and fantastic at translating feedback into terms that engineers and designers understand. But that doesn't mean everyone else is ..... All 4 aliens are outstanding in this respect. However, it is equally clear that the only rider capable of turning the Ducati around is Valentino Rossi. Not because of his superior feedback, but because of the pressure he brings to bear on Ducati. Italy expects, and Ducati have to start taking this thing ....... seriously, and not dicking about for 3rd.

povol said:

Exhibit B



Perhaps means maybe, as in its your opinion. You are entitled to your opinion but it doesnt make it fact. I guess your opinion outweighs Stoners, Melandri's, Capirossi's, countless other riders who have failed to set up the Ducati, and now even JB. You may be right, your knowledge may be greater than those listed, but i will wait until next year and see how the Honda performs before i make a decision. Of course, if the 2012 Honda is a world beater, you will say that Stoner had nothing to do with it, that all he did was crawl out of the motor home on race day and ride it.

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B class riders, like Hayden.



MA calling me demented when's having having another wobbly .

Kropotkin said:

Most interesting thing I've noticed is Alex Briggs saying how all the crew are really enjoying themselves again, working really hard and figuring out problems, which is what they love. Didn't have to do that at Yamaha, bike was sorted. Tells you all you need to know about the state of the Ducati.



FWIW, it's clear to me that Rossi is in a league of his own in terms of bike development, and he has a fantastic team around him, and Burgess is an exceptional crew chief, and fantastic at translating feedback into terms that engineers and designers understand. But that doesn't mean everyone else is ..... All 4 aliens are outstanding in this respect. However, it is equally clear that the only rider capable of turning the Ducati around is Valentino Rossi. Not because of his superior feedback, but because of the pressure he brings to bear on Ducati. Italy expects, and Ducati have to start taking this thing ....... seriously, and not dicking about for 3rd.

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Krop, what in your view would be Ducati's response if hypothetically Valentino dug his heels in and demanded that they discard the CF chassis in favour of aluminium?

Arrabbiata1 said:

Krop, what in your view would be Ducati's response if hypothetically Valentino dug his heels in and demanded that they discard the CF chassis in favour of aluminium?

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It's not his job to ask for a particular material. It's his job to ask for a particular response from the bike.

Kropotkin said:

Most interesting thing I've noticed is Alex Briggs saying how all the crew are really enjoying themselves again, working really hard and figuring out problems, which is what they love. Didn't have to do that at Yamaha, bike was sorted. Tells you all you need to know about the state of the Ducati.



FWIW, it's clear to me that Rossi is in a league of his own in terms of bike development, and he has a fantastic team around him, and Burgess is an exceptional crew chief, and fantastic at translating feedback into terms that engineers and designers understand. But that doesn't mean everyone else is ..... All 4 aliens are outstanding in this respect. However, it is equally clear that the only rider capable of turning the Ducati around is Valentino Rossi. Not because of his superior feedback, but because of the pressure he brings to bear on Ducati. Italy expects, and Ducati have to start taking this thing ....... seriously, and not dicking about for 3rd.

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How do you assess Yamaha's situation? Last Sunday Aldo Porta of Italia-1 interviewed Forcada and he was saying that they had been struggling quite a bit with setup. They never seemed to have setup problems last year. Probably now have to push harder to try to stay with the Hondas, and problems inevitably crop up?

J4rn0 said:

How do you assess Yamaha's situation? Last Sunday Aldo Porta of Italia-1 interviewed Forcada and he was saying that they had been struggling quite a bit with setup. They never seemed to have setup problems last year. Probably now have to push harder to try to stay with the Hondas, and problems inevitably crop up?

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I think so. Lorenzo's total race time was 5 seconds quicker at Le Mans than last year, it's just that the Honda's have moved the game onwards. The Yamaha is a bit better than 2010, the Ducati is a bit better, and the Honda is on another planet. The competition never sleeps.

Mental Anarchist said:

You are demented. Here is JB, who has had a chance to view all of Stoner's data, has worked on the bike, has 13 WC's and he is saying that it is a fact that Ducati did not react to Stoner's feedback or try to fix the problems with the bike, he actually says that they ignored the problems, and you still find some way to blame Stoner and discredit his ability to give feedback. I can think of no other explanation other than you have a mental disability or you are taking the piss because no rational human being could continue to hold the view you hold unless one or the other is the case.

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That's why, along with Super ......, Pinky and others of his ilk he's finding his way to the ignore list of people who just don't want their time wasted by hate-filled irrational people. Save your breath. Might as well be talking to a brick wall.

Kropotkin said:

Most interesting thing I've noticed is Alex Briggs saying how all the crew are really enjoying themselves again, working really hard and figuring out problems, which is what they love. Didn't have to do that at Yamaha, bike was sorted. Tells you all you need to know about the state of the Ducati.



FWIW, it's clear to me that Rossi is in a league of his own in terms of bike development, and he has a fantastic team around him, and Burgess is an exceptional crew chief, and fantastic at translating feedback into terms that engineers and designers understand. But that doesn't mean everyone else is ..... All 4 aliens are outstanding in this respect. However, it is equally clear that the only rider capable of turning the Ducati around is Valentino Rossi. Not because of his superior feedback, but because of the pressure he brings to bear on Ducati. Italy expects, and Ducati have to start taking this thing ....... seriously, and not dicking about for 3rd.

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So you have been reading my posts.

Kropotkin said:

Most interesting thing I've noticed is Alex Briggs saying how all the crew are really enjoying themselves again, working really hard and figuring out problems, which is what they love. Didn't have to do that at Yamaha, bike was sorted. Tells you all you need to know about the state of the Ducati.



FWIW, it's clear to me that Rossi is in a league of his own in terms of bike development, and he has a fantastic team around him, and Burgess is an exceptional crew chief, and fantastic at translating feedback into terms that engineers and designers understand. But that doesn't mean everyone else is ..... All 4 aliens are outstanding in this respect. However, it is equally clear that the only rider capable of turning the Ducati around is Valentino Rossi. Not because of his superior feedback, but because of the pressure he brings to bear on Ducati. Italy expects, and Ducati have to start taking this thing ....... seriously, and not dicking about for 3rd.

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Interesting.

Keshav said:

So you have been reading my posts.

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Or you've been reading my mind....

Keshav said:

That's why, along with Super ......, Pinky and others of his ilk he's finding his way to the ignore list of people who just don't want their time wasted by hate-filled irrational people. Save your breath. Might as well be talking to a brick wall.

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No .... Keshav.....the majority of this thread is utter nonsense! It's maddening at times. It reminds me that some people desperately need hero's. Sad...

ptk50 said:

Hey Povol,

Thanks - I couldn't have said it better.

Now if Mental would part the fur in front of his eyes and read this - maybe we'd progress

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So you agree that Rossi has benefited over the years because of the sway he has over the series, and maybe his achievements are a little skewed because of it. Glad to see you open your eyes

J4rn0 said:

How do you assess Yamaha's situation? Last Sunday Aldo Porta of Italia-1 interviewed Forcada and he was saying that they had been struggling quite a bit with setup. They never seemed to have setup problems last year. Probably now have to push harder to try to stay with the Hondas, and problems inevitably crop up?

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Before folk go ignoring the Yamaha and how they are going with their bike, and suggesting they are losing the plot ......... perhaps just because Rossi is no longer there?



You need to take a breath .......



and remember a largely ignored fact ..................















Yamaha are leading the championship at present

levigarrett said:

No .... Keshav.....the majority of this thread is utter nonsense! It's maddening at times. It reminds me that some people desperately need hero's. Sad...

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+10000



Absolutely, its very good to see others seeing the absolute and utter hypocrisy that exists.

Mr Squiggle said:

3. The rider offers feedback to fix issues...nothing more. He does NOT engineer solutions to fix the problems...rather he says what works and what doesnt....end of.

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Part of giving feedback to any engineer is also the ability to change how you do things on your end, in the motorcycle world this comes down to changes in riding style. Some guys ride the front tire, some the back tire, and some are somewhere in the middle. Anything that is highly developed is designed to work a certain way so if an engineer ask you to test a part that may work but also requires you to be able to ride in a way you aren't used to, will the feedback be useful if the rider can't get comfortable enough to test the part how the engineer wants it tested. Do you want your development to be limited by the rider. Is it any surprise that Honda's riders have had complaints about what the bike does during braking when their #1 rider can't fully exploit the brakes simply because he can't get in proper position because of his size. How is the engineer to get feedback in this instance? You can clearly see that the Honda has been developed to exploit Pedrosa's main stregnths, getting grip and accelerating, even the gear box has been worked over for more acceleration, this has also suited Casey and he will further exploit the bike when they make the changes he needs for better braking.



I think Ducati are simply in over their heads and engineering ability and if they are really working with Farrari I think it hurts them even more, I've seen some beautiful things come out of Italy but none of those things are known for their reliability and ease of maintenance, and people call this character

ptk50 said:

Let's assume for a moment - best case for CS feedback on the 2008 - 2010 Ducati - and believe for a moment he had constructive and objective input - if that was the case and Ducati just didn't listen - that was maybe due to:



CS lack of ability to communicate

Lack of technical credibility

Missing objectivity

blame it on others



Bottom line is - Both Engineers and #1 riders interdependently develop winning bikes. If the bike is not successfully developed - e.g to be a consistent winner, then both sides have failed to deliver



Now does anybody want to argue the merits of Ducati development 2008 - 2010?

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As I have frequently said, if stoner can't develop as well as rossi , that's the way it is. In any case, perhaps my perspective is skewed, , but I personally am more interested in him out riding rossi than out developing him. If (and I do say if) he wins the championship this year then promptly retires, he will have had a great career and pleased his fans ( however few) greatly, the more so because all his wins have occurred with Rossi in the field.



As for his development skill, evidence is lacking that he can develop a bike from nothing, but evidence is also lacking that the problems with ducati now are due to his development or lack thereof. At the very least it would be wise imo to wait until valentino and jb, unquestioned as developers, actually develop the bike into a winner with its current design, although admittedly signs from le mans are that they may well do so.



Just btw, if you believe that ducati did listen to stoner, what was wrong with the 2008 and 2009 bikes, both of which were capable of race wins and not unstable in stoner's hands? As has been said he can only develop what is best for him, just as rossi does, bikes developed by valentino being more widely suited to other riders of course. The 2008 bike was faster than the yamaha mid-season once they ditched the dud 2008 engine; whilst stoner is a talented rider, I don't think he or anyone else has claims to him being an engine designer, and he can hardly be blamed for the early season woes of the ducati in that year. The 2009 bike also looked pretty good once he was healthy. The problem was the 2010 bike, which ducati openly said was an attempt to develop a bike more widely suitable and deliberately intended not to follow stoner's preferences, and which was unstable from the start. Despite he and ducati having decided on divorce very early in the 2010 season, or possibly before, he still managed to eventually cobble together something that was still unstable but capable of winning, by measures clearly down to him such as going back to the 2009 forks. As I recall ducati's intention with the 2010 bike was to to have more rear grip; I think they may have been successful in this, but also created a bike which was unstable for everyone including stoner.

hawkdriver said:

Part of giving feedback to any engineer is also the ability to change how you do things on your end, in the motorcycle world this comes down to changes in riding style. Some guys ride the front tire, some the back tire, and some are somewhere in the middle. Anything that is highly developed is designed to work a certain way so if an engineer ask you to test a part that may work but also requires you to be able to ride in a way you aren't used to, will the feedback be useful if the rider can't get comfortable enough to test the part how the engineer wants it tested. Do you want your development to be limited by the rider. Is it any surprise that Honda's riders have had complaints about what the bike does during braking when their #1 rider can't fully exploit the brakes simply because he can't get in proper position because of his size. How is the engineer to get feedback in this instance? You can clearly see that the Honda has been developed to exploit Pedrosa's main stregnths, getting grip and accelerating, even the gear box has been worked over for more acceleration, this has also suited Casey and he will further exploit the bike when they make the changes he needs for better braking.



I think Ducati are simply in over their heads and engineering ability and if they are really working with Farrari I think it hurts them even more, I've seen some beautiful things come out of Italy but none of those things are known for their reliability and ease of maintenance, and people call this character

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Good points and I agree...it is also better to have feedback from a guy who can push a bike to its absolute limit rather than 95% of the limit as is the case with most test riders as opposed to the factory guns.

Keshav said:

That's why, along with Super ......, Pinky and others of his ilk he's finding his way to the ignore list of people who just don't want their time wasted by hate-filled irrational people. Save your breath. Might as well be talking to a brick wall.

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So says the joker who calls Rossi a clown and calls anyone who offers any criticism of Stoner a 'bopper'.



Fact is I've said all along that independent of the bike, Stoner's performances at Ducati regressed as time went on. That is Keshav's biggest problem with me because he can't accept that.



Still, being on his ignore list is preferable to being on his cyber-stalk list .

Nino said:

Fact is I've said all along that independent of the bike, Stoner's performances at Ducati regressed as time went on.

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....and that's practically all you've said all along. Why not try another topic? independent of Vale of CS.

Arrabbiata1 said:

....and that's practically all you've said all along. Why not try another topic? independent of Vale of CS.

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The reality is that Rossi and Stoner dominate this forum.