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How not to approach a hairpin

Joined Feb 2008
218 Posts | 0+
Nottinghamshire UK
...by Josh Brookes at Mallory Park BSB


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nasty 1! good to see everyone made ti thru intact.
 
So that's what that dude got a 2 race suspension for. I guess he broke his thumb in the event but I guess that didn't sink in till the adrenalin left his body.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jul 21 2009, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So that's what that dude got a 2 race suspension for.
He'd have probably got off with a warning if it wasn't for him taking out Sylvain at Donny. It's just a shame the 5 guys he took out in this one got excluded from the result too - especially as it robbed Simon Andrews of what looked like being his well deserved first win.
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Could this guys luck possibly get any worse?

I'm not too sure what Stuart Higgs was on about when he explained that rule, as I'm sure in the past they've usually only DQ'ed the guy that caused the red flag to come out.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stevo @ Jul 21 2009, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He'd have probably got off with a warning if it wasn't for him taking out Sylvain at Donny. It's just a shame the 5 guys he took out in this one got excluded from the result too - especially as it robbed Simon Andrews of what looked like being his well deserved first win.
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Could this guys luck possibly get any worse?

I'm not too sure what Stuart Higgs was on about when he explained that rule, as I'm sure in the past they've usually only DQ'ed the guy that caused the red flag to come out.


Very true, but the Donington incident was claimed by Brookes to be brake failure which was supported by his team but not accepted by stewards. the fact that it happened on a warm-up lap no doubt played into stewards mind but many riders approach warm-up laps differently, some take their time whilst other rush.

But, as for the Mallory incident I am happy to argue that Brookes did not take out 5 riders but 1 (Andrews). All remaining riders fell in their own incident which yes was caused in part by Brookes off but he did not impact them nor did he force them off track.

There is some argument that the riders fell on fluid dumped by Brookes machine but in that case why only those five bikes fell is interesting given that the fuluid would have remained on track and as shown in the video, other bikes make the turn successfully.

In a separate forum I have discussed with others the accident as when you stop the video at 17 seconds ir is clear that there had been another fall on that corner recently (note apparent fluid line at Brookes' body and mark in grass at end of that line).

There is no doubt that Brookes got in a little hot but the accident was caused by his loss of control under heavy braking as the rear of the bike hit the bump which put the wheels out of alignment and, well the rest is obvious. Yes it was an accident and a racing one at that but the vitriol that has been poured at Brookes in some forums (not here) is a disgrace as racers are meant to pass, racers will take risks that sometimes don't pay off - that is all this incident is.

As for the Red Flag, well the cause needs to be identified as from my understanding it was not Brookes/Andrews but the following riders that caused the Red Flag as they had blocked (well almost) the track. But as you say the issue they had was the Red Flag rules that applied as in BS the riders must return to the pits within a specific timeframe (happy to be corrected) and all riders failed to do so. In some countries (Australia as the example) the rules allow all riders with the exception of the cause of the Red Flag to restart.

Whether the offence deserved a 2 race ban is arguable as it is something we see often at races and yes, many riders make the same mistake but what is done is done. Now the issue will be consistency by the stewards and whether they will continue to suspend riders (repeat offenders) irrespective of whether it be a lowside, highside etc. That is where my interest lay, we have a precedent that has now been set so will it be followed.







Garry
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 24 2009, 06:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for the Red Flag, well the cause needs to be identified as from my understanding it was not Brookes/Andrews but the following riders that caused the Red Flag as they had blocked (well almost) the track. But as you say the issue they had was the Red Flag rules that applied as in BS the riders must return to the pits within a specific timeframe (happy to be corrected) and all riders failed to do so. In some countries (Australia as the example) the rules allow all riders with the exception of the cause of the Red Flag to restart.
All I know is the rule needs changing. They were right to exclude Brookes, but the rest of them were innocent and shouldn't have been DQ'ed. Plus, didn't Rutter fall off but still somehow end up 4th???
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And I can't really blame Josh for this crash - I'll bet every rider on the grid's made a similar mistake at that corner. He was just unlucky that he took others out with him.

The question now is who the hell do they replace him with? Brogan's already riding Glen's bike, and Plater's apparently just focusing on the BSS title now. Maybe someone like Gaz Mason or Richard Cooper?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stevo @ Jul 24 2009, 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All I know is the rule needs changing. They were right to exclude Brookes, but the rest of them were innocent and shouldn't have been DQ'ed. Plus, didn't Rutter fall off but still somehow end up 4th???
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And I can't really blame Josh for this crash - I'll bet every rider on the grid's made a similar mistake at that corner. He was just unlucky that he took others out with him.

The question now is who the hell do they replace him with? Brogan's already riding Glen's bike, and Plater's apparently just focusing on the BSS title now. Maybe someone like Gaz Mason or Richard Cooper?


Ok, just playing to bear with me a bit.

Why were they right to exclude Brookes ?

I contest that he did indeed impact Andrews and that they fell, but I further contest that the fallen riders on the track are what caused the Red Flag and that they were in a separate incident and not part of the Brooke/Andrews incident. My reason for this is that Brookes did not impact them, nor did he or Andrews force them off the circuit which resulted in a crash (would then agree that Brookes to blame) but instead they fell alone.

The argument would be that Brookes crash impeded these riders who then subsequently fell and it is this point that I think many are using (plus to some the commentary on the video and subsequent press releases). But is it a correct point?

If it is accepted that Brookes caused these riders to crash then does it mean that any future incidents that occur on the one corner will be classed as part of the same incident where one faller is present?

Now, for my personal opinion I have no doubt that the sight of Brookes' has distracted the riders (particularly the first one into the corner), but it did not cause him to crash.

As an aside and a similar situation, look at the Monza WSBK start crash. Is that one incident or a number of incidents?


By the way, not arguing but just wanting to discuss and garner opinion as for mine it was pure racing incident (as we agree) that had unfortunate flow on effects and resulted in a red flag. The precedent now being set it will be interesting if similar situations occur whatt he relative penalty may be.

As for next riders I have heard two names mentioned elsewhere - Muggeridge and Lavilla







Garry
 
Good point, I'd not really thought about the other riders causing the red flag. It just looks to me like they wouldn't have all crashed had Josh not hit Simon, so I'd say it was fair to exclude him from that race. I still think the ban is way too harsh for what was a racing incident though.

I'd love to see Muggas on the HM Plant bike, but it's probably unlikely now as John McGuiness said something at the GP today about riding the bike at Cadwell. It was hard to hear them talking on the tannoy, but I'm pretty sure he confirmed he'd be at Cadwell but not at Brands.
 

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