Houston we have a problem

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Sep 20 2009, 08:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Except for entry into the largest motorcycle market in this country. It's all a rouse, it has been since DMG got involved. They want the Harley market and they'll do anything to get it. I suspected it from the start but thought maybe it was just paranoia. When they started disregarding the rules to give Buell the advantages and then coming out and saying that the Buell is legal, despite it clearly not complying to printed rules, they're alienating the fan base. It's one thing to blatantly give advantages to one manufacturer, it's quite another to tell those fans that they're delusional and wrong for pointing out the advantages. The sportbike market is growing quite a bit in this country, but it's nothing compared to Harley.

You can defend it all you like Lex, I see eye to eye with you regarding most everything else, but this has been a grab for the Harley market since the beginning. DMG doesn't care about close racing, they don't care about road racing fans (except for the money they pay to come see 'the show'), they don't care about producing future world champions. They want the Harley money.

There is nothing to defend or not defend b/c this class doesn't affect the racing in the classes we like. There is no conspiracy to eliminate sportbike racing. Are we supposed to be persuaded by one sideshow spec-class that the entire AMA has been delivered to the Harley demographic? What's Edmondson's motivation? He doesn't gain anything by choosing one group of people over another group; especially since he can court them both.

If people mistakenly believe that Roger Edmondson is trying to give AMA Pro Road Racing to Harley fans, and sportsbike fans walk away, their fears will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There is way too much at stake to use the changes to the AMA as justification to witch hunt the enemies of motorcycling. Sales are slumping tremendously, and if the AMA doesn't continue to have an audience to watch sportbike races and purchases race replicas, there is a good chance that SBKs may become as European as F1. Young riders will starting buying sportsters that are cheaper and easier to ride than 600s, and the entire sportbike marketplace will dry up. Sportbike riders will become even more culturally irrelevant than we already are. We will literally and figuratively become road kill strewn along the sides of America's roads by an indifferent public who are culturally autocentric (not that we aren't road kill already).

Why is motorcycling so irrelevant anyway? Probably for the same reasons that many people can't drive a manual transmission anymore--they have become rare and culturally irrelevant b/c exposure is non-existent. Younger generations of drivers don't even know if they prefer stick to the convenience of an automatic b/c they've never driven a manual transmission in their life. Motorcycles are the same. They aren't in the pubic consciousness and tons of people don't have access to them and don't know how to use them. The romanticism of motorcycling and friends who have bikes are the only things that draw them in. If the experience doesn't meet with their expectations or if their social environment changes, the ride is over b/c it ceases to be culturally relevant.

Companies like Honda are too stupid to realize this isn't about fairness or interpersonal conflicts. They must compete to sell motorcycles not just against the other Japanese companies, but also against all other types of recreation vehicles and against all other leisure activities.

I don't know, maybe this is just part of "the plan". Honda sells tons more Harley clones than they do sportbikes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 21 2009, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is nothing to defend or not defend b/c this class doesn't affect the racing in the classes we like. There is no conspiracy to eliminate sportbike racing. Are we supposed to be persuaded by one sideshow spec-class that the entire AMA has been delivered to the Harley demographic? What's Edmondson's motivation? He doesn't gain anything by choosing one group of people over another group; especially since he can court them both.

If people mistakenly believe that Roger Edmondson is trying to give AMA Pro Road Racing to Harley fans, and sportsbike fans walk away, their fears will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There is way too much at stake to use the changes to the AMA as justification to witch hunt the enemies of motorcycling. Sales are slumping tremendously, and if the AMA doesn't continue to have an audience to watch sportbike races and purchases race replicas, there is a good chance that SBKs may become as European as F1. Young riders will starting buying sportsters that are cheaper and easier to ride than 600s, and the entire sportbike marketplace will dry up. Sportbike riders will become even more culturally irrelevant than we already are. We will literally and figuratively become road kill strewn along the sides of America's roads by an indifferent public who are culturally autocentric (not that we aren't road kill already).

Why is motorcycling so irrelevant anyway? Probably for the same reasons that many people can't drive a manual transmission anymore--they have become rare and culturally irrelevant b/c exposure is non-existent. Younger generations of drivers don't even know if they prefer stick to the convenience of an automatic b/c they've never driven a manual transmission in their life. Motorcycles are the same. They aren't in the pubic consciousness and tons of people don't have access to them and don't know how to use them. The romanticism of motorcycling and friends who have bikes are the only things that draw them in. If the experience doesn't meet with their expectations or if their social environment changes, the ride is over b/c it ceases to be culturally relevant.

Companies like Honda are too stupid to realize this isn't about fairness or interpersonal conflicts. They must compete to sell motorcycles not just against the other Japanese companies, but also against all other types of recreation vehicles and against all other leisure activities.

I don't know, maybe this is just part of "the plan". Honda sells tons more Harley clones than they do sportbikes.
It's another classic case Lex, where I agree with most everything you've just said. Absolutely true. My only quip is with the part I've bolded. I believe the market for Harleys is far greater than that of the sportbike market. And yes, RE can court both for a time but in order to appease the Harley crowd (they aren't going to show up forever to watch HD lose to the Japanese and Italians, which is what you seem to suggest as the end game and what I don't have a problem with that), they're going to have to give HD more and more concessions.

If the XR1200 class is the end of the Harley introduction to this series, then I'll concede my paranoia. Like you said, RE has always wanted to get the HD crowd in the gate. But the HD crowd is eventually going to get bored of watching HDs race HDs (or maybe not, their drag game seems to have gone on for quite some time with relative commercial success) and at that point RE is going to have to decide who he appeases, the sport bike riders or the HD market. Based on market sales, I have to believe that HD is more valuable to DMG than we are.

It takes a special kind of fan to watch roadracing in person. Lets face it,not many tracks allow for more than just few seconds a lap of your viewing pleasure. I have taken many a sport bike rider to a road race and the huge majority are NOT asking when we are going again.You could make an argument that it is actually boring. Not to me, but to a lot of bike riders A big percentage of Harley riders are posers who buy bikes and trailer them to Daytona and Sturgis. They set in the garage the rest of the year while wanna be bike boy plays golf or goes out on his boat.I think the day will come when DMG will realize they have run off the only fan the sport has. They will have to kiss my ... bigtime to get me back.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 21 2009, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It takes a special kind of fan to watch roadracing in person. Lets face it,not many tracks allow for more than just few seconds a lap of your viewing pleasure. I have taken many a sport bike rider to a road race and the huge majority are NOT asking when we are going again.You could make an argument that it is actually boring. Not to me, but to a lot of bike riders A big percentage of Harley riders are posers who buy bikes and trailer them to Daytona and Sturgis. They set in the garage the rest of the year while wanna be bike boy plays golf or goes out on his boat.I think the day will come when DMG will realize they have run off the only fan the sport has. They will have to kiss my ... bigtime to get me back.



I don't care if someone rides once a year or a hundred times a week as long as they ride and respect other riders. I don't care if they get on a cruiser or a Liter sportbike as long as they are having fun and being safe. I don't give a damn if your a fanatic or a casual rider. It's all for the joy and love of riding. I will ride whatever is available, that bein from a scooter to a sportbike to a cruiser. I always have fun whatever I am on. In my experience harley riders are some of the nicest guys around. Are they a different over there?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Sep 21 2009, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

I don't care if someone rides once a year or a hundred times a week as long as they ride and respect other riders. I don't care if they get on a cruiser or a Liter sportbike as long as they are having fun and being safe. I don't give a damn if your a fanatic or a casual rider. It's all for the joy and love of riding. I will ride whatever is available, that bein from a scooter to a sportbike to a cruiser. I always have fun whatever I am on. In my experience harley riders are some of the nicest guys around. Are they a different over there?

Yea your right, they are some of the nicest guys around......to other HD riders. I guess since your from the WC you have never been to Daytona Bike week. I guarantee after one day of riding there would change your mind. They are some of the biggest posers, wannabe bikers I have ever seen. Most are rude to anyone not riding an HD. And like another poster said earlier, they trailer the bikes from where ever they are stored down to Florida. I used to live in Tampa and would make the 2 hr ride the weekend of the races. I couldn't tell you how many trailered bikes I would pass just coming from Tampa!

Maybe it's much different on the WC, I really have no idea. The best I can compare it to is when a buddy of mine went to California for a wedding and his friend got passes to some big Ducati gathering. He described the enviroment as the HD of sportbikes. According to him, if you didn't ride a Ducati you didn't ride ..... It's the same attitude with HD over here on the EC. Bunch of weekend posers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 21 2009, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It takes a special kind of fan to watch roadracing in person. Lets face it,not many tracks allow for more than just few seconds a lap of your viewing pleasure. I have taken many a sport bike rider to a road race and the huge majority are NOT asking when we are going again.You could make an argument that it is actually boring. Not to me, but to a lot of bike riders A big percentage of Harley riders are posers who buy bikes and trailer them to Daytona and Sturgis. They set in the garage the rest of the year while wanna be bike boy plays golf or goes out on his boat.I think the day will come when DMG will realize they have run off the only fan the sport has. They will have to kiss my ... bigtime to get me back.

DMG may not bother to get you back. The Japanese are prefectly capable of building XR1200 clones, who's to say DMG will not entice them to create another nationally recognized entertainment property like NASCAR.

If you think the AMA is NASCAR now, wait until it only features 500lb 1200cc air-cooled twins that race on oval circuits.

We all know that DMG are going to develop a handful of new concepts and then see what sticks in terms of viewership and media interest. The classes that trend upwards will be given the green light, and DMG will focus on promoting those properties. If sportsbike fans walk away, they might be turning the AMA into NASCAR.

What if NASCAR used ALMS or the IRL as a support class? A bunch of rednecks who might not otherwise see "real" race cars would be exposed to something entirely new that they might end up liking better than NASCAR. Unfortunately, ALMS and IRL cannot be raced with NASCAR because they are completely separate racing properties.

That phenomenon doesn't exist in motorcycling. If he XR1200 class evolves into a major media/viewership draw, sportsbike classes could be run as niche market product that will gain mainstream exposure. Obviously, the sportsbike guru don't want to play second fiddle, but if the profile of sportsbike racing is not raised, it will die.

The future is already extremely grisly. The big 4 are burning through cash and posting enormous quarterly losses, meanwhile Harley are still managing to eek out profits.

We can pretend that we are the most important people in motorcycling by demanding that DMG listen to our every command, or we can accept the truth and adapt. NUMBERS DON'T L1E. Until the numbers in our segment improve, we don't really have a leg to stand on. Obviously, the old AMA model wasn't working.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 21 2009, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We can pretend that we are the most important people in motorcycling by demanding that DMG listen to our every command, or we can accept the truth and adapt. NUMBERS DON'T L1E. Until the numbers in our segment improve, we don't really have a leg to stand on. Obviously, the old AMA model wasn't working.

Most important paragraph yet.

I think that the major manufactures have a large stake in making a series for their bikes in the US. All of those companies will benefit from racing each other. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a breakaway series in the future becuase who the hell wants to deal with those ......... at DMG? They just don't get it obviously. They don't understand that all racing is not created equal and the fans don't treat it as such. This has got to happen one way or another just for the fact of sales. Sure people will continue to buy bikes but to be inspired to buy a specific brand is what racing does.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 21 2009, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>DMG may not bother to get you back. The Japanese are prefectly capable of building XR1200 clones, who's to say DMG will not entice them to create another nationally recognized entertainment property like NASCAR.

If you think the AMA is NASCAR now, wait until it only features 500lb 1200cc air-cooled twins that race on oval circuits.

We all know that DMG are going to develop a handful of new concepts and then see what sticks in terms of viewership and media interest. The classes that trend upwards will be given the green light, and DMG will focus on promoting those properties. If sportsbike fans walk away, they might be turning the AMA into NASCAR.

What if NASCAR used ALMS or the IRL as a support class? A bunch of rednecks who might not otherwise see "real" race cars would be exposed to something entirely new that they might end up liking better than NASCAR. Unfortunately, ALMS and IRL cannot be raced with NASCAR because they are completely separate racing properties.

That phenomenon doesn't exist in motorcycling. If he XR1200 class evolves into a major media/viewership draw, sportsbike classes could be run as niche market product that will gain mainstream exposure. Obviously, the sportsbike guru don't want to play second fiddle, but if the profile of sportsbike racing is not raised, it will die.

The future is already extremely grisly. The big 4 are burning through cash and posting enormous quarterly losses, meanwhile Harley are still managing to eek out profits.

We can pretend that we are the most important people in motorcycling by demanding that DMG listen to our every command, or we can accept the truth and adapt. NUMBERS DON'T L1E. Until the numbers in our segment improve, we don't really have a leg to stand on. Obviously, the old AMA model wasn't working.

There is no doubt there are millions more HD's on the street than sportbikes,but, when it comes to roadracing,numbers DO lie. Even when HD was running Superbike,you could count the spectators that rode HD on your fingers and toes at any event besides Daytona. Roadracing will never draw the bikeweek crowd,regardless of how many special favors DMG gives HD and Buell.Now an oval track with a pack of Harley's doing 135 mph would probably be a big draw,but that is not roadracing. I wish RE would just go ahead and speed up the transformation that he has in mind,instead of stringing the jap oem"s along so they will pay bills. I think they have caught on to RE though,at least Honda has.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 21 2009, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>[/b]

There is no doubt there are millions more HD's on the street than sportbikes,but, when it comes to roadracing,numbers DO lie. Even when HD was running Superbike,you could count the spectators that rode HD on your fingers and toes at any event besides Daytona. Roadracing will never draw the bikeweek crowd,regardless of how many special favors DMG gives HD and Buell.Now an oval track with a pack of Harley's doing 135 mph would probably be a big draw,but that is not roadracing. I wish RE would just go ahead and speed up the transformation that he has in mind,instead of stringing the jap oem"s along so they will pay bills. I think they have caught on to RE though,at least Honda has.

I think you're right that Harley fans will probably not make a major impact on the attendance at first, but rest assured DMG will probably try to turn race weekends into rally events complete with AMA membership sign ups and all kinds of other stuff. Keep in mind that the AMA have charged DMG with raising total membership to increase their lobby so they can block stupid laws that keep kids off of dirtbikes.

If I were the AMA I'd make a bid for the Iron Butt Association and turn the AMA Pro Road Racing season into a prestigious Iron Butt competition. There are a million tricks they can use to get butts in the seats.

I'm not debating that sportbike racing is the biggest most dedicated audience, but to be honest, our ranks are so thin they could probably replace live coverage with an HD racing reality show and get much better ratings (I'm sure one is probably already in the works). If we walk away, they want beg us to return, they will put us out to pasture.

At one point no one thought F1 would die in the United States, yet here we are. The major sports networks struck deals with stick-and-ball sports and Speed sold their soul to NASCAR. No one begged Bernie to bring it back when they left.

If we walk away we will be replaced. The same thing goes for Big Red.

I have a hard time believing DMG is trying to replace us with Harley fans. All they have to do is look at flat track and see that HD alone doesn't make a successful series. DMG was entertaining different ideas to add to the weekend racing bill next year,I think what happened was Harley had a new model to promote and was willing to spend money on the series while other factories were pulling out.

I'm trying to be optimistic about this, looking at how WSBK turned out after the control tire controversy died down. Maybe DMG will go through with the turnkey, customer bike formula and create a strong, competitive series. As (if) the economy recovers, hopefully the big four will see value in the rejuvenated series, and come back with money for sponsoring events, supporting customer teams, and setting up displays for the fans.

Hopefully the officiating will improve; DMG has come around on the pace vehicle and the flagstand issues.

[quote name='mylexicon' date='Sep 21 2009, 03:42 PM' post='210407']
DMG may not bother to get you back. The Japanese are prefectly capable of building XR1200 clones, who's to say DMG will not entice them to create another nationally recognized entertainment property like NASCAR.
If you think the AMA is NASCAR now, wait until it only features 500lb 1200cc air-cooled twins that race on oval circuits.

We all know that DMG are going to develop a handful of new concepts and then see what sticks in terms of viewership and media interest. The classes that trend upwards will be given the green light, and DMG will focus on promoting those properties. If sportsbike fans walk away, they might be turning the AMA into NASCAR.

What if NASCAR used ALMS or the IRL as a support class? A bunch of rednecks who might not otherwise see "real" race cars would be exposed to something entirely new that they might end up liking better than NASCAR. Unfortunately, ALMS and IRL cannot be raced with NASCAR because they are completely separate racing properties.

That phenomenon doesn't exist in motorcycling. If he XR1200 class evolves into a major media/viewership draw, sportsbike classes could be run as niche market product that will gain mainstream exposure. Obviously, the sportsbike guru don't want to play second fiddle, but if the profile of sportsbike racing is not raised, it will die.

The future is already extremely grisly. The big 4 are burning through cash and posting enormous quarterly losses, meanwhile Harley are still managing to eek out profits.

We can pretend that we are the most important people in motorcycling by demanding that DMG listen to our every command, or we can accept the truth and adapt. NUMBERS DON'T L1E. Until the numbers in our segment improve, we don't really have a leg to stand on. Obviously, the old AMA model wasn't working.





[/quoteThe only problem is,its clearly stated that it is a Spec Harley class. Of course they [the japs] can make a Vtwin tractor to go racing against the Harley's,but why. Is there a market for that bike that would justify the R&D costs.And would DMG let it in the series if it was made.I personally doubt it.This is a series designed to give HD marketability by crowing at the top of their lungs how they won an AMA championship. They have already given Buell a title,Giving Harley one is a little harder prospect unless you just allow Harley's to run their own class. At this point,i could care less if bike racing in America ceases to exist. If thats the only way for this country to end up with a world class racing series,so be it. I have lived without it for a year now,and it wasnt as painful as i though it might be. Im going to Road Atlanta this weekend to watch the ALMS 12 hour with the money i didnt piss away on the AMA. Thats if the damn place is out from under water by this weekend. The Atlanta area has had over 20 inches of rain in less than a week,they are seriously ...... at the moment.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Sep 21 2009, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have a hard time believing DMG is trying to replace us with Harley fans. All they have to do is look at flat track and see that HD alone doesn't make a successful series. DMG was entertaining different ideas to add to the weekend racing bill next year,I think what happened was Harley had a new model to promote and was willing to spend money on the series while other factories were pulling out.

I'm trying to be optimistic about this, looking at how WSBK turned out after the control tire controversy died down. Maybe DMG will go through with the turnkey, customer bike formula and create a strong, competitive series. As (if) the economy recovers, hopefully the big four will see value in the rejuvenated series, and come back with money for sponsoring events, supporting customer teams, and setting up displays for the fans.

Hopefully the officiating will improve; DMG has come around on the pace vehicle and the flagstand issues.

I agree that DMG do not want to replace us, but I don't think they will have any qualms about leaving us out if the other racing series or classes start to grow. DMG are trying to raise the profile of motorcycles in general so they are looking for a way to make the sport look relevant to motorcyclists and non-motorcyclists alike.

Some people are convinced that DMG will choose the dumbed-down spec class over a traditional sportbike racing product, but honestly, I don't think they really care what they are racing as long as it is profitable and it achieves the AMA's goal of lobbying power and increased membership. It seems like DMG are asking people to respond if they like SBK, and the anemic fan base and manufacturer support are walking away b/c they don't like the SBK rules at this exact moment. I don't think that walking out is a good way to bring about change.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 22 2009, 12:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree that DMG do not want to replace us, but I don't think they will have any qualms about leaving us out if the other racing series or classes start to grow. DMG are trying to raise the profile of motorcycles in general so they are looking for a way to make the sport look relevant to motorcyclists and non-motorcyclists alike.

Some people are convinced that DMG will choose the dumbed-down spec class over a traditional sportbike racing product, but honestly, I don't think they really care what they are racing as long as it is profitable and it achieves the AMA's goal of lobbying power and increased membership. It seems like DMG are asking people to respond if they like SBK, and the anemic fan base and manufacturer support are walking away b/c they don't like the SBK rules at this exact moment. I don't think that walking out is a good way to bring about change.


And behaving like mindless sheep is. This is a product, i am the buyer.If i dont like the product, i will find something that better suits my needs. It is a very simple concept.Let me ask you this.If you walk into a store to buy,lets say riding boots. You ask the clerk if he has black and he says no,we dont like black boots,all we have is red. You tell him,i dont like red boots, would you order me a pair of black.The clerk looks at you and says,you damn riders have the attention span of a gnat,red is what ive got and red is what your going to get. But i dont want red. Tough ....,this is my chance to make some money,i got the reds one cheap because nobody wanted them. Sound Familiar

You could parody this thing out for days.

Here is some advice, DO NOT BUY WHAT DOESNT FIT YOUR NEEDS. In the end,you will not be happy and the supplier of the product will have false data to crunch for future production. There is NO better way to get the attention of a supplier of any product ,than to simply not buy it. I dont know why that is so hard to understand

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 22 2009, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Im going to Road Atlanta this weekend to watch the ALMS 12 hour with the money i didnt piss away on the AMA. Thats if the damn place is out from under water by this weekend. The Atlanta area has had over 20 inches of rain in less than a week,they are seriously ...... at the moment.

You're going to the Petit Le Mans? How cool! Audi v. Peugeot, with the R15 making only its third race appearance. You are about to be treated to something truly special.

Also, it's ten hours or 1,000 miles, whichever comes first (the races have gone for 9 1/2 hours the last few years). I'm going to my third consecutive PLM this weekend. can't say I'm looking forward to the wet clay mess.

Sorry, OT

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Sep 22 2009, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're going to the Petit Le Mans? How cool! Audi v. Peugeot, with the R15 making only its third race appearance. You are about to be treated to something truly special.

Also, it's ten hours or 1,000 miles, whichever comes first (the races have gone for 9 1/2 hours the last few years). I'm going to my third consecutive PLM this weekend. can't say I'm looking forward to the wet clay mess.

Sorry, OT
We were not going till Audi announced they were going to show. That was a few months back.Now we get the added bonus of Peugot showing up at the last minute. RA is a mess after regular rain, i cant imagine what that place looks like now. We are supposed to camp but the more i look at whats going on down there, that doesnt sound like much fun. \They are advising people to stay out of the Atlanta area unless you just have to be there, i may end up staying home and watching WSBK.

Now you have the polite Brit hammering DMG.
Hodgson blasts DMG, says he is most likely headed home to race BSB, a proffesionally run series.

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ama...on-headed-home/

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 22 2009, 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And behaving like mindless sheep is. This is a product, i am the buyer.If i dont like the product, i will find something that better suits my needs. It is a very simple concept.Let me ask you this.If you walk into a store to buy,lets say riding boots. You ask the clerk if he has black and he says no,we dont like black boots,all we have is red. You tell him,i dont like red boots, would you order me a pair of black.The clerk looks at you and says,you damn riders have the attention span of a gnat,red is what ive got and red is what your going to get. But i dont want red. Tough ....,this is my chance to make some money,i got the reds one cheap because nobody wanted them. Sound Familiar

You could parody this thing out for days.

Here is some advice, DO NOT BUY WHAT DOESNT FIT YOUR NEEDS. In the end,you will not be happy and the supplier of the product will have false data to crunch for future production. There is NO better way to get the attention of a supplier of any product ,than to simply not buy it. I dont know why that is so hard to understand


Okay, you can be a consumer and I'll be an investor.

I wanted the barriers to entry reduced immediately. I got it. I wanted costs suppressed. It didn't really happen but hopefully this new turnkey racer will help move things more rapidly towards lower costs. I wanted more parity. I think maybe they delivered a little bit too much parity, but the control tire was a huge step in the right direction and I suppose performance indexing is the only thing that really makes sense when you race lightly tuned production machines that weren't meant to be raced as-is.

I'm not turned on or impressed by the state of tune. The bikes would be tons more impressive if they allowed more displacement or forced induction, parlor tricks related to extremely expensive equipment are NOT designed to make the fans happy, they are designed to keep competitors out.

We can't let mega corps build a fence around a not-for-profit corporation that is designed to help the general public. Look at the results. The AMA realized that racing activities were not meeting any public good and they weren't even generating income. The racing certainly wasn't open to people who were passionate about racing, everything hinged on your relationship with one of the multi-billion dollar corporations that controlled the AMA.

So the AMA orchestrated a coup d'etat of sorts. Of course the manufacturers are pissed. In 5 minutes the AMA toppled the ivory tower they spent tens/hundreds of millions of dollars to build and to protect from outsiders.

You're pissed about the state of tune and the performance indexing. Fine, but those problems are related primarily to money. Money has nothing to do with RE's ego, or poor Honda, or evil Harley/Buell, or brave Dean Adams, or bad officiating. The lack of money is related directly to the sports dysfunctional financial & entertainment models. You don't rely on the competitors to fund the sport!!!! That IS club racing no matter how highly-tuned the bikes are.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 22 2009, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Okay, you can be a consumer and I'll be an investor.

I wanted the barriers to entry reduced immediately. I got it. I wanted costs suppressed. It didn't really happen but hopefully this new turnkey racer will help move things more rapidly towards lower costs. I wanted more parity. I think maybe they delivered a little bit too much parity, but the control tire was a huge step in the right direction and I suppose performance indexing is the only thing that really makes sense when you race lightly tuned production machines that weren't meant to be raced as-is.

I'm not turned on or impressed by the state of tune. The bikes would be tons more impressive if they allowed more displacement or forced induction, parlor tricks related to extremely expensive equipment are NOT designed to make the fans happy, they are designed to keep competitors out.

We can't let mega corps build a fence around a not-for-profit corporation that is designed to help the general public. Look at the results. The AMA realized that racing activities were not meeting any public good and they weren't even generating income. The racing certainly wasn't open to people who were passionate about racing, everything hinged on your relationship with one of the multi-billion dollar corporations that controlled the AMA.

So the AMA orchestrated a coup d'etat of sorts. Of course the manufacturers are pissed. In 5 minutes the AMA toppled the ivory tower they spent tens/hundreds of millions of dollars to build and to protect from outsiders.

You're pissed about the state of tune and the performance indexing. Fine, but those problems are related primarily to money. Money has nothing to do with RE's ego, or poor Honda, or evil Harley/Buell, or brave Dean Adams, or bad officiating. The lack of money is related directly to the sports dysfunctional financial & entertainment models. You don't rely on the competitors to fund the sport!!!! That IS club racing no matter how highly-tuned the bikes are.

Well Mr investor,let me give you some advice. If you invest in DMG,you are a fool. They have no fan base and they have no TV contract. If they do somehow secure a TV deal,it will be so insignificant,they will using your money to pay for airtime next to Sham WOW and Magic scratch removal.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 22 2009, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well Mr investor,let me give you some advice. If you invest in DMG,you are a fool. They have no fan base and they have no TV contract. If they do somehow secure a TV deal,it will be so insignificant,they will using your money to pay for airtime next to Sham WOW and Magic scratch removal.

These types of investments are called Silly Putty or Playdough for a reason. They are cheap and can be shaped into anything you want. The AMA was playdough before DMG arrived, and that's precisely why DMG bought it. The AMA was just unrealized potential.

Unfortunately, the manufacturers just wanted DMG to put it in a cup and sell it on SpeedTV. That ain't gonna cut it anymore.