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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 18 2009, 05:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>LINK
I guess that DMG meeting didn't go so well, eh.
I can see that arrogant ....... now. Strutting into the office like he was bargaining from a positive posistion,only to be told to piss off,go run your ....... Buell cheater bike in all 3 classes for all we care. Now get the .... out of my office.
I guess that DMG meeting didn't go so well, eh.
I can see that arrogant ....... now. Strutting into the office like he was bargaining from a positive posistion,only to be told to piss off,go run your ....... Buell cheater bike in all 3 classes for all we care. Now get the .... out of my office.
I thought the withdrawal was a foregone conclusion last year when they yanked all support except what they were contractually obligated to provide.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 18 2009, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thought the withdrawal was a foregone conclusion last year when they yanked all support except what they were contractually obligated to provide.
I would say this season is what made it a foregone conclusion.If they had liked what they saw in 2009,im sure they would be more receptive to DMG's advances.Plus,if it was a foregone conclusion,why would DMG waste time to meet with them. Anyway,i down,2 to go.I think Yamaha stays,Suzuki follows Honda and Kawasaki is a toss up.I would find it strange though for Yamaha to drop a winning WSS effort to race in this series. Honda will be nice about the reason they are not coming back
I would say this season is what made it a foregone conclusion.If they had liked what they saw in 2009,im sure they would be more receptive to DMG's advances.Plus,if it was a foregone conclusion,why would DMG waste time to meet with them. Anyway,i down,2 to go.I think Yamaha stays,Suzuki follows Honda and Kawasaki is a toss up.I would find it strange though for Yamaha to drop a winning WSS effort to race in this series. Honda will be nice about the reason they are not coming back
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confirmed
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=38149
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=38148
This is the part that is a pity but you have to do what you have to do
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=38149
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=38148
This is the part that is a pity but you have to do what you have to do
Joined Feb 2007
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Tennessee
This statement sounds like they have left the door open but the ball is in DMG's court
"When so many things are not working in your favor ..." Heben said haltingly, "... you know you'd like to think that everything is subject to change and that this is too."
"When so many things are not working in your favor ..." Heben said haltingly, "... you know you'd like to think that everything is subject to change and that this is too."
Well Lex, you should be ecstatic. Your dream of an all Club racer "national" series looks like it will come to fruition. All thats left now is for Yamaha to pull out and this will officially be nothing more than a bunch of back markers fighting for 1st. What a waste. I used to go to a few races every year since 2001. I sure as hell am not paying to see racing fodder and the newly crowned Buell cup.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shocker @ Sep 19 2009, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well Lex, you should be ecstatic. Your dream of an all Club racer "national" series looks like it will come to fruition. All thats left now is for Yamaha to pull out and this will officially be nothing more than a bunch of back markers fighting for 1st. What a waste. I used to go to a few races every year since 2001. I sure as hell am not paying to see racing fodder and the newly crowned Buell cup.
I'd be ecstatic if the manufacturers had agreed to produce satellite bikes for AMA privateers like they do for WSBK privateer teams.
Apparently, that is a bridge too far for American Honda.
I doubt American Honda will participate unless DMG hands them a championship on a silver platter. That's how Honda used to be treated before the evil goons at DMG took over.
I'd be ecstatic if the manufacturers had agreed to produce satellite bikes for AMA privateers like they do for WSBK privateer teams.
Apparently, that is a bridge too far for American Honda.
I doubt American Honda will participate unless DMG hands them a championship on a silver platter. That's how Honda used to be treated before the evil goons at DMG took over.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 19 2009, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'd be ecstatic if the manufacturers had agreed to produce satellite bikes for AMA privateers like they do for WSBK privateer teams.
Apparently, that is a bridge too far for American Honda.
I doubt American Honda will participate unless DMG hands them a championship on a silver platter. That's how Honda used to be treated before the evil goons at DMG took over.
Kind of like how DMG handed Buell their championship on a silver platter. At least when Honda was winning,it was against same size bikes with same size technical specs.Every manufacturer had the same opportunity to win as Honda,but like Honda,chose to cherry pick classes which should have never been allowed. I AM assuming you are talking about FX, because its been a good while now since Honda has sniffed a Superbike title,before or after DMG. Nobody from the OEM's is wanting to come right out and say it,but the disgust is with the slight of hand tactics in the way the Buell has been allowed to circumvent the rules.The Buell has to go out of DSB and DMG has to make Buell follow homologation rules in Superbike.
Apparently, that is a bridge too far for American Honda.
I doubt American Honda will participate unless DMG hands them a championship on a silver platter. That's how Honda used to be treated before the evil goons at DMG took over.
Kind of like how DMG handed Buell their championship on a silver platter. At least when Honda was winning,it was against same size bikes with same size technical specs.Every manufacturer had the same opportunity to win as Honda,but like Honda,chose to cherry pick classes which should have never been allowed. I AM assuming you are talking about FX, because its been a good while now since Honda has sniffed a Superbike title,before or after DMG. Nobody from the OEM's is wanting to come right out and say it,but the disgust is with the slight of hand tactics in the way the Buell has been allowed to circumvent the rules.The Buell has to go out of DSB and DMG has to make Buell follow homologation rules in Superbike.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 19 2009, 09:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Kind of like how DMG handed Buell their championship on a silver platter. At least when Honda was winning,it was against same size bikes with same size technical specs.Every manufacturer had the same opportunity to win as Honda,but like Honda,chose to cherry pick classes which should have never been allowed. I AM assuming you are talking about FX, because its been a good while now since Honda has sniffed a Superbike title,before or after DMG. Nobody from the OEM's is wanting to come right out and say it,but the disgust is with the slight of hand tactics in the way the Buell has been allowed to circumvent the rules.The Buell has to go out of DSB and DMG has to make Buell follow homologation rules in Superbike.
JU and Cardenas handed Buell a title this season.
The manufacturers are not mad about the Buell bike, they ARE mad that they fought fiercely with DMG over the homologation rules, and DMG eventually won. Halfway through the season, DMG backpeddled towards the old AMA rules and a traditional SBK bike-prep model (turn-key racers aka satellite bikes).
The manufacturers' anger is justified, but technically DMG is moving back towards what they wanted in the first place---the manufacturers wanted to change anything and everything they wanted prior to any parity adjustments.
DMG paid for the sport, they wanted to test the eligible equipment list and the strict homologation rules. It didn't achieve the results they wanted. The suspension spec was way to low, and it didn't really cut costs so they hatched the turnkey racer concept.
It wasn't smart to do it during the middle of the season, but I don't know that it would have been any smarter to use the 2010 season to test the turn key racer concept either.
JU and Cardenas handed Buell a title this season.
The manufacturers are not mad about the Buell bike, they ARE mad that they fought fiercely with DMG over the homologation rules, and DMG eventually won. Halfway through the season, DMG backpeddled towards the old AMA rules and a traditional SBK bike-prep model (turn-key racers aka satellite bikes).
The manufacturers' anger is justified, but technically DMG is moving back towards what they wanted in the first place---the manufacturers wanted to change anything and everything they wanted prior to any parity adjustments.
DMG paid for the sport, they wanted to test the eligible equipment list and the strict homologation rules. It didn't achieve the results they wanted. The suspension spec was way to low, and it didn't really cut costs so they hatched the turnkey racer concept.
It wasn't smart to do it during the middle of the season, but I don't know that it would have been any smarter to use the 2010 season to test the turn key racer concept either.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 19 2009, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>JU and Cardenas handed Buell a title this season.
The manufacturers are not mad about the Buell bike, they ARE mad that they fought fiercely with DMG over the homologation rules, and DMG eventually won. Halfway through the season, DMG backpeddled towards the old AMA rules and a traditional SBK bike-prep model (turn-key racers aka satellite bikes).
The manufacturers' anger is justified, but technically DMG is moving back towards what they wanted in the first place---the manufacturers wanted to change anything and everything they wanted prior to any parity adjustments.
DMG paid for the sport, they wanted to test the eligible equipment list and the strict homologation rules. It didn't achieve the results they wanted. The suspension spec was way to low, and it didn't really cut costs so they hatched the turnkey racer concept.
It wasn't smart to do it during the middle of the season, but I don't know that it would have been any smarter to use the 2010 season to test the turn key racer concept either.
They fougt DMG fiercely over the homologation rule because DMG would not stick to their own specs when it came to the Buell. There was no less than 4 tech changes regarding the Buell alone during the course of the year. As far as hatching the turn key concept,Who besides Buell was mentioned, when the illegal by their own rules 1125rr was introduced. I do remember a Honda official making a snide comment about building a one off prototype racebike as a slap at DMG for turning their backs on their own rules.
The manufacturers are not mad about the Buell bike, they ARE mad that they fought fiercely with DMG over the homologation rules, and DMG eventually won. Halfway through the season, DMG backpeddled towards the old AMA rules and a traditional SBK bike-prep model (turn-key racers aka satellite bikes).
The manufacturers' anger is justified, but technically DMG is moving back towards what they wanted in the first place---the manufacturers wanted to change anything and everything they wanted prior to any parity adjustments.
DMG paid for the sport, they wanted to test the eligible equipment list and the strict homologation rules. It didn't achieve the results they wanted. The suspension spec was way to low, and it didn't really cut costs so they hatched the turnkey racer concept.
It wasn't smart to do it during the middle of the season, but I don't know that it would have been any smarter to use the 2010 season to test the turn key racer concept either.
They fougt DMG fiercely over the homologation rule because DMG would not stick to their own specs when it came to the Buell. There was no less than 4 tech changes regarding the Buell alone during the course of the year. As far as hatching the turn key concept,Who besides Buell was mentioned, when the illegal by their own rules 1125rr was introduced. I do remember a Honda official making a snide comment about building a one off prototype racebike as a slap at DMG for turning their backs on their own rules.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 19 2009, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They fougt DMG fiercely over the homologation rule because DMG would not stick to their own specs when it came to the Buell. There was no less than 4 tech changes regarding the Buell alone during the course of the year. As far as hatching the turn key concept,Who besides Buell was mentioned, when the illegal by their own rules 1125rr was introduced. I do remember a Honda official making a snide comment about building a one off prototype racebike as a slap at DMG for turning their backs on their own rules.
The fought DMG fiercely because the old homologation bikes were nothing more than a short list of parts that included the frame and some other stuff. The teams basically started with those parts and then built a bike around them according to the rules. By the time they were done, it barely resembled the street bike it was supposed to be representing.
The DMG homologation rules allowed the teams to roll a production bike out of the showroom, modify about 2 dozen parts, and then run it at the track. Obviously, it infuriated the race teams who employed engineers and mechanics and contracted with race companies to prep their AMA SBKs every year. It also angered the riders a bit b/c they were accustomed to the quick adjustments on racing equipment.
It was a bad situation all the way around. If the manufacturers had their way, they would have avoided DMGs homologation rules altogether, but DMG was persistent and got their way in the end. Only four months after the season began, DMG were scrambling to come up with a new concept.
The new concept is basically the old SBK rules but with an economic twist.
The fought DMG fiercely because the old homologation bikes were nothing more than a short list of parts that included the frame and some other stuff. The teams basically started with those parts and then built a bike around them according to the rules. By the time they were done, it barely resembled the street bike it was supposed to be representing.
The DMG homologation rules allowed the teams to roll a production bike out of the showroom, modify about 2 dozen parts, and then run it at the track. Obviously, it infuriated the race teams who employed engineers and mechanics and contracted with race companies to prep their AMA SBKs every year. It also angered the riders a bit b/c they were accustomed to the quick adjustments on racing equipment.
It was a bad situation all the way around. If the manufacturers had their way, they would have avoided DMGs homologation rules altogether, but DMG was persistent and got their way in the end. Only four months after the season began, DMG were scrambling to come up with a new concept.
The new concept is basically the old SBK rules but with an economic twist.
But wait all is not lost, the shrewd operator Edmonson is. A harley 1200 spec class, oh boy. This outta be thrilling.
Speaking of manufactures having their way.
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-rac...-for-ama-racing
Speaking of manufactures having their way.
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-rac...-for-ama-racing
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loose Rod @ Sep 20 2009, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But wait all is not lost, the shrewd operator Edmonson is. A harley 1200 spec class, oh boy. This outta be thrilling.
Speaking of manufactures having their way.
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-rac...-for-ama-racing
Speaking of manufactures having their way.
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-rac...-for-ama-racing
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loose Rod @ Sep 20 2009, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But wait all is not lost, the shrewd operator Edmonson is. A harley 1200 spec class, oh boy. This outta be thrilling.
Speaking of manufactures having their way.
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-rac...-for-ama-racing
Just call me Povol the Soothsayer.Ever since i saw the original specs for AMA racing last Sept,i said it was geared towards drawing the Harley crowd.I also predicted that we would have an all Harley class. The whole single supplier series is nothing but a ruse to get Harley into a class they cannot lose. IF,all the jap OEM;s take a hike,you might just see Buell win, DSB, ASB, and of course,an all Harley class.Does AHDRA sound familiar.This is becoming more of a joke everyday.If there was ever a time for an alternate series,it is now.
Speaking of manufactures having their way.
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-rac...-for-ama-racing
Just call me Povol the Soothsayer.Ever since i saw the original specs for AMA racing last Sept,i said it was geared towards drawing the Harley crowd.I also predicted that we would have an all Harley class. The whole single supplier series is nothing but a ruse to get Harley into a class they cannot lose. IF,all the jap OEM;s take a hike,you might just see Buell win, DSB, ASB, and of course,an all Harley class.Does AHDRA sound familiar.This is becoming more of a joke everyday.If there was ever a time for an alternate series,it is now.
I have been thoroughly engrossed with racing here for 40 + years. The first race I attended was the Sac mile at the old state fairgrounds. At the time the hardlys were 750 and everybody else had to run 500s. The ama has ALWAYS been butt boys for harley. Now after so much abuse they run in edmonson to try and make it seem more palatable. It might be a good idea now with so many people that can't ride, driving them things.
You go mylex and keep trying to make logic out of what they are trying to do but. Everything changes and everything stays the same.
The US has produced some of the best racers in the world over time, but never once have they come from riding one of those pos.
Except for Cal R. rip
You go mylex and keep trying to make logic out of what they are trying to do but. Everything changes and everything stays the same.
The US has produced some of the best racers in the world over time, but never once have they come from riding one of those pos.
Except for Cal R. rip
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 20 2009, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just call me Povol the Soothsayer.Ever since i saw the original specs for AMA racing last Sept,i said it was geared towards drawing the Harley crowd.I also predicted that we would have an all Harley class. The whole single supplier series is nothing but a ruse to get Harley into a class they cannot lose. IF,all the jap OEM;s take a hike,you might just see Buell win, DSB, ASB, and of course,an all Harley class.Does AHDRA sound familiar.This is becoming more of a joke everyday.If there was ever a time for an alternate series,it is now.
You don't need a crystal ball to figure out that DMG is going to include Harley. They've said on numerous occasions that they want to include EVERYONE.
DMG doesn't gain anything by losing the Japanese manufacturers, and a shrewd businessman like Edmondson is not going to deliver ASBK and DSB titles to Harley/Buell for nothing. He cares about the show, and the other show he managed (GrandAm) features as many different brands as possible and it has very big manufacturer and sponsor participation. The sport lacks fans b/c no one understands it (including me).
I think the AMA is in legitimate danger of becoming a motorcycle expo with a bit of racing on the side, but the major manufacturers (mainly Honda) are to blame just as much as DMG. The current situation always reminds me of WSBK in 2003. The Japanese got bent over the control tire rule and they delivered the series to Ducati on a silver platter. Now Ducati get whatever they want. The Flaminis give Italian manufacturers more displacement, they homologate an Italian V4 SBK a year early, and they handed a control tire contract to an Italian tire company.
BTW, don't they already race XR1200s in Germany or some other national European series?
You don't need a crystal ball to figure out that DMG is going to include Harley. They've said on numerous occasions that they want to include EVERYONE.
DMG doesn't gain anything by losing the Japanese manufacturers, and a shrewd businessman like Edmondson is not going to deliver ASBK and DSB titles to Harley/Buell for nothing. He cares about the show, and the other show he managed (GrandAm) features as many different brands as possible and it has very big manufacturer and sponsor participation. The sport lacks fans b/c no one understands it (including me).
I think the AMA is in legitimate danger of becoming a motorcycle expo with a bit of racing on the side, but the major manufacturers (mainly Honda) are to blame just as much as DMG. The current situation always reminds me of WSBK in 2003. The Japanese got bent over the control tire rule and they delivered the series to Ducati on a silver platter. Now Ducati get whatever they want. The Flaminis give Italian manufacturers more displacement, they homologate an Italian V4 SBK a year early, and they handed a control tire contract to an Italian tire company.
BTW, don't they already race XR1200s in Germany or some other national European series?
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Woody Creek
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 20 2009, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Edmondson is not going to deliver ASBK and DSB titles to Harley/Buell for nothing.
Except for entry into the largest motorcycle market in this country. It's all a rouse, it has been since DMG got involved. They want the Harley market and they'll do anything to get it. I suspected it from the start but thought maybe it was just paranoia. When they started disregarding the rules to give Buell the advantages and then coming out and saying that the Buell is legal, despite it clearly not complying to printed rules, they're alienating the fan base. It's one thing to blatantly give advantages to one manufacturer, it's quite another to tell those fans that they're delusional and wrong for pointing out the advantages. The sportbike market is growing quite a bit in this country, but it's nothing compared to Harley.
You can defend it all you like Lex, I see eye to eye with you regarding most everything else, but this has been a grab for the Harley market since the beginning. DMG doesn't care about close racing, they don't care about road racing fans (except for the money they pay to come see 'the show'), they don't care about producing future world champions. They want the Harley money.
Except for entry into the largest motorcycle market in this country. It's all a rouse, it has been since DMG got involved. They want the Harley market and they'll do anything to get it. I suspected it from the start but thought maybe it was just paranoia. When they started disregarding the rules to give Buell the advantages and then coming out and saying that the Buell is legal, despite it clearly not complying to printed rules, they're alienating the fan base. It's one thing to blatantly give advantages to one manufacturer, it's quite another to tell those fans that they're delusional and wrong for pointing out the advantages. The sportbike market is growing quite a bit in this country, but it's nothing compared to Harley.
You can defend it all you like Lex, I see eye to eye with you regarding most everything else, but this has been a grab for the Harley market since the beginning. DMG doesn't care about close racing, they don't care about road racing fans (except for the money they pay to come see 'the show'), they don't care about producing future world champions. They want the Harley money.
