I was just having a think about Honda, and all the stuff that goes back and forth here about the company, the riders and their bikes. A lot of people on here are expecting Dani to move back in the championship this season, and with his injury coupled with Stoner, Rossi and Lorenzo's testing pace it looks like that could be a reality. I thought it was interesting that since re-entering the 500cc class in 82 a Honda has always finished in the top 3 of the riders championship, and only been 3rd on 4 occasions. Could Honda be about to have their worst season yet?
Honda's 2009 prospects.....
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I thnk the main problem with Honda in 2009 is the adaptation to Bridgestones.
Pedrosa seemed capable to be fast with them almost immediately last year and that deceived everybody into thinking that Honda would adapt without much trouble, but it was mainly thanks to Pedro with his light weight and riding skills.
The Bridgestones may have temporarily worsened the rear end instability that has plagued Honda in recent years.
If they could give the bike to Burgess and Rossi for one month, I'm sure Honda would improve dramatically as basically it's a great bike like all Hondas. But Pedro cannot develop anything, that we know by now, and Dovi is too inexperienced still
Pedrosa seemed capable to be fast with them almost immediately last year and that deceived everybody into thinking that Honda would adapt without much trouble, but it was mainly thanks to Pedro with his light weight and riding skills.
The Bridgestones may have temporarily worsened the rear end instability that has plagued Honda in recent years.
If they could give the bike to Burgess and Rossi for one month, I'm sure Honda would improve dramatically as basically it's a great bike like all Hondas. But Pedro cannot develop anything, that we know by now, and Dovi is too inexperienced still
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Mar 28 2009, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>it sure looks that way. although i think randy depuniet is gonna save the season for honda...
That already happened, regardless of what place he finishes, or any other Honda rider for that matter.
I just sent our for my new subscription. Well, you know its our duty as fans to support the sport and in this case I'm doing it for investigative purposes since I'm working on a project related to motorcycle racing.
That already happened, regardless of what place he finishes, or any other Honda rider for that matter.
I just sent our for my new subscription. Well, you know its our duty as fans to support the sport and in this case I'm doing it for investigative purposes since I'm working on a project related to motorcycle racing.
So far this winter i haven't been hugely convinced by Dovi's riding (although i haven't been since 2005) and i think HRC's hopes will rest on Dani once again. With his participation in the first race still not certain i really don't know what to expect from him this seaosn, but i struggle to place him anywhere other than 4th overall. I'm beggining to lose my faith
It's an interesting point and one that would no doubt trouble Mr Honda! Even without the first race of the season being run, I can't see a Honda in the top 3 this year. If what I'm reading is correct, Dani won't be fit for a number of weeks. Even if he rides in Qatar he will be mid-pack at best. The Suzukis are genuinely strong this year and Stoner and Rossi are in a league of their own. Dovi looks as though he is struggling with development, although I don't doubt his riding skills.
Honda has certainly lost its aura of invincibility. I just can't put Dani in the same league as Honda's lead riders over the last 20 years ... Rossi, Doohan, Lawson, Gardner. Actually, he doesn't belong in the same city!
Honda has certainly lost its aura of invincibility. I just can't put Dani in the same league as Honda's lead riders over the last 20 years ... Rossi, Doohan, Lawson, Gardner. Actually, he doesn't belong in the same city!
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Mar 30 2009, 12:20 AM
So what have we really learned prior to the 2009 championship?
1. Stoner and Rossi are 1 & 2 - you pick 'em
2. The Suzukis are no joke, they are competitive this year
3. JT is in trouble, injuries aside he has a confidence mountain to climb
4. Lorenzo is fast and a threat to win races if he keeps the rubber down
5. Repsol's in bigger trouble than anyone's admitting
6. Others CAN ride the Duc fast and its gonna be fun to see who's #2 at season's end
7. Colin & Cappy can still ride kudos to the vetrans
8. Marco, too, can still ride... the bike... who knows
9. The rest - let the racing begin!
So what have we really learned prior to the 2009 championship?
1. Stoner and Rossi are 1 & 2 - you pick 'em
2. The Suzukis are no joke, they are competitive this year
3. JT is in trouble, injuries aside he has a confidence mountain to climb
4. Lorenzo is fast and a threat to win races if he keeps the rubber down
5. Repsol's in bigger trouble than anyone's admitting
6. Others CAN ride the Duc fast and its gonna be fun to see who's #2 at season's end
7. Colin & Cappy can still ride kudos to the vetrans
8. Marco, too, can still ride... the bike... who knows
9. The rest - let the racing begin!
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I kind of feel silly for saying this but seeing Honda struggle makes me feel happy. Deep down I still believe that Honda orchestrated this whole 800 move to benefit a little mutant ( who's name I will not speak ) and Its biting them back in the bottom. They had such a good 990 machine and all they needed was a talented and brave rider but oh well.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Electric Mofo @ Apr 3 2009, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I kind of feel silly for saying this but seeing Honda struggle makes me feel happy. Deep down I still believe that Honda orchestrated this whole 800 move to benefit a little mutant ( who's name I will not speak ) and Its biting them back in the bottom. They had such a good 990 machine and all they needed was a talented and brave rider but oh well.
yep all this has gone down the tube because of dani and earwig... hopefully this is the last season they listen cos dani's chances are running out and he aint coming up with the goods.
i think dovi knows exactly what areas of the machine that needs attention, i say they should listen to him.
yep all this has gone down the tube because of dani and earwig... hopefully this is the last season they listen cos dani's chances are running out and he aint coming up with the goods.
i think dovi knows exactly what areas of the machine that needs attention, i say they should listen to him.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Apr 3 2009, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mar 30 2009, 12:20 AM
So what have we really learned prior to the 2009 championship?
5. Repsol's in bigger trouble than anyone's admitting
So what have we really learned prior to the 2009 championship?
5. Repsol's in bigger trouble than anyone's admitting
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Electric Mofo @ Apr 3 2009, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I kind of feel silly for saying this but seeing Honda struggle makes me feel happy. Deep down I still believe that Honda orchestrated this whole 800 move to benefit a little mutant ( who's name I will not speak ) and Its biting them back in the bottom. They had such a good 990 machine and all they needed was a talented and brave rider but oh well.
They had that as well up until the end of last season.
Completely agree Mofo. So much so I've just rammed 'Houses of the Holy' into the CD player and cranked it up to 11 in your honour.
After years of steering the series towards this .... emasculated pocket bike formula, when HRC finally got what they wanted, they came up with the 'Dani cycle' and churned out the biggest white elephant since the oval piston NR 500 in '79. Anyone familiar with the Monkey's Paw?
They had that as well up until the end of last season.
Completely agree Mofo. So much so I've just rammed 'Houses of the Holy' into the CD player and cranked it up to 11 in your honour.
After years of steering the series towards this .... emasculated pocket bike formula, when HRC finally got what they wanted, they came up with the 'Dani cycle' and churned out the biggest white elephant since the oval piston NR 500 in '79. Anyone familiar with the Monkey's Paw?
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Damn straight
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 3 2009, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>After years of steering the series towards this .... emasculated pocket bike formula, when HRC finally got what they wanted, they came up with the 'Dani cycle' and churned out the biggest white elephant since the oval piston NR 500 in '79.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Electric Mofo @ Apr 3 2009, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I kind of feel silly for saying this but seeing Honda struggle makes me feel happy. Deep down I still believe that Honda orchestrated this whole 800 move to benefit a little mutant ( who's name I will not speak ) and Its biting them back in the bottom. They had such a good 990 machine and all they needed was a talented and brave rider but oh well.
Dani kicking is like midget tossing, I know it ain't that fair but deep down I feel really good afterwards.
And Puig.
Seriously if I were Mr Honda, right now I would be ordering whatever Dovi wants for the bike.
Dani is just another 250 guy (see Melandri, Loris, Biaggi et al) who could ride a 250 but just didn't have the magical ingredient it takes to ride the bigger faster bike against a pool of champions. Good riders all, but eternal bridesmaids in the top class.
It's his last season on the factory Honda anyway, can't spend that much (money and time) and not present Valentino's Yamaha riding head on a plate for Mr Honda is FAILURE.
Dani kicking is like midget tossing, I know it ain't that fair but deep down I feel really good afterwards.
And Puig.
Seriously if I were Mr Honda, right now I would be ordering whatever Dovi wants for the bike.
Dani is just another 250 guy (see Melandri, Loris, Biaggi et al) who could ride a 250 but just didn't have the magical ingredient it takes to ride the bigger faster bike against a pool of champions. Good riders all, but eternal bridesmaids in the top class.
It's his last season on the factory Honda anyway, can't spend that much (money and time) and not present Valentino's Yamaha riding head on a plate for Mr Honda is FAILURE.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Apr 12 2009, 06:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Seriously if I were Mr Honda, right now I would be ordering whatever Dovi wants for the bike.
Dani is just another 250 guy (see Melandri, Loris, Biaggi et al) who could ride a 250 but just didn't have the magical ingredient it takes to ride the bigger faster bike against a pool of champions. Good riders all, but eternal bridesmaids in the top class.
It's his last season on the factory Honda anyway, can't spend that much (money and time) and not present Valentino's Yamaha riding head on a plate for Mr Honda is FAILURE.
Who's to say Dovi wont be the same? Dani's first sesaon promised so much but since he hasn't really made much of a step forward and we could well see a similar thing happen to Andrea.
Dani is just another 250 guy (see Melandri, Loris, Biaggi et al) who could ride a 250 but just didn't have the magical ingredient it takes to ride the bigger faster bike against a pool of champions. Good riders all, but eternal bridesmaids in the top class.
It's his last season on the factory Honda anyway, can't spend that much (money and time) and not present Valentino's Yamaha riding head on a plate for Mr Honda is FAILURE.
Who's to say Dovi wont be the same? Dani's first sesaon promised so much but since he hasn't really made much of a step forward and we could well see a similar thing happen to Andrea.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 12 2009, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who's to say Dovi wont be the same? Dani's first sesaon promised so much but since he hasn't really made much of a step forward and we could well see a similar thing happen to Andrea.
But isn't that the point, Tom? Dovi is singled out because of POTENTIAL - he has yet to prove to us that he CANNOT. Dani and the rest have proven over time that they are fast, but not MotoGP CHAMPIONS!!!
But isn't that the point, Tom? Dovi is singled out because of POTENTIAL - he has yet to prove to us that he CANNOT. Dani and the rest have proven over time that they are fast, but not MotoGP CHAMPIONS!!!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 12 2009, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who's to say Dovi wont be the same? Dani's first sesaon promised so much but since he hasn't really made much of a step forward and we could well see a similar thing happen to Andrea.
The point is that Dani has spent 3 seasons and enough money to fix the U.S deficit trying to win a title and hasn't. Dovi is on a lower paying contract and doesn't have the (ahem) obvious baggage that Dani has. The Dani crusade is starting to look like a spanish guy flogging a dead spanish horse.
Continuing the analogy...Better to back a horse that might win than one you know really has .... all chance.
Dani is a satellite rider next year
The point is that Dani has spent 3 seasons and enough money to fix the U.S deficit trying to win a title and hasn't. Dovi is on a lower paying contract and doesn't have the (ahem) obvious baggage that Dani has. The Dani crusade is starting to look like a spanish guy flogging a dead spanish horse.
Continuing the analogy...Better to back a horse that might win than one you know really has .... all chance.
Dani is a satellite rider next year
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Apr 12 2009, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dani is a satellite rider next year
would puig allow that? the man is so arrogant i am thinking he's capable (and there's a possibility to this) of orchestrating a "retirement" drama show citing injuries than have pedders sign a ride for the satellite teams.
would puig allow that? the man is so arrogant i am thinking he's capable (and there's a possibility to this) of orchestrating a "retirement" drama show citing injuries than have pedders sign a ride for the satellite teams.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Apr 12 2009, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But isn't that the point, Tom? Dovi is singled out because of POTENTIAL - he has yet to prove to us that he CANNOT. Dani and the rest have proven over time that they are fast, but not MotoGP CHAMPIONS!!!
Well thats just it. Like him or not Dani's potential has not disappeared in three years, and arguably he still has more potential than all but 3 or maybe 4 riders on the grid.
Well thats just it. Like him or not Dani's potential has not disappeared in three years, and arguably he still has more potential than all but 3 or maybe 4 riders on the grid.
