Hayden : Where is he next year ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wander @ Jul 3 2008, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe he could fo fine with a Ducati. His driving style is quite unique, isn't it? Maybe it'd work with Ducati like it works for Stoner?
I'm ambivalent about Hayden going to Ducati.
I know a lot of people are saying the bike will suit his style, because Stoner has a similar dirt background and he can tame it, but doesn't it also mean having total faith in the TC?
And that's one thing that Nicky doesn't like.
I'm all for him leaving HRC and there doesn't seem to be any other alternatives, (I'd hate to see him on one of the satellite slow white Honda's), but if he doesn't adapt, then that could be the end of his motogp career.

Hayden going to Ducati would be his best bet I think, although he has been riding the Honda for so long it may take him a while to adjust.

Hayden is actually in a pretty good spot. If he goes to Ducati all he would have to do is better thatn Marco the first couple races. We all, or most of us agree that he could end up on a satelite team which would not be good for his career. He really has nothing to lose going to Ducati. If he does better than Marco then that would be considered a success, which shouldn't be that hard to do.

The decision is actually pretty easy for me. This is given that HRC doesn't offer him the second seat there. Hayden probably is looking at 2 choices. Ducati or Honda setalite. Kwak would be suicide, Yamaha is looking full. Which would you choose. Especially since he can save face on the Ducati because all the other riders besides Stoner are pretty aweful. I guess he could do worse than Marco but I don't see that happening. On the flipside its a championship winning bike that hayden could really exploit

Its a gamble, I agree, but Ducati it is, if they are offering of course

How many satellite bikes have won 800cc motogp races?

..................Decision made

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Helix @ Jul 3 2008, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm ambivalent about Hayden going to Ducati.
I know a lot of people are saying the bike will suit his style, because Stoner has a similar dirt background and he can tame it, but doesn't it also mean having total faith in the TC?
And that's one thing that Nicky doesn't like.
I'm all for him leaving HRC and there doesn't seem to be any other alternatives, (I'd hate to see him on one of the satellite slow white Honda's), but if he doesn't adapt, then that could be the end of his motogp career.
I've thought about the risk of moving to a team with loads of question marks surrounding it. But if Hayden goes there and is successful, he will be a potential championship contender and have another five seasons in GPs. If he is unsuccessful, he will finish out his contract and limp to a satellite team somewhere or out of the series. If he goes to a satellite Honda straight away, even if he performs well he likely won't be offered a factory seat of any relevance and will eventually be replaced by a younger rider, likely within two to three seasons. If he doesn't perform, then he exits stage left.

No matter where he goes, if he doesn't perform he likely doesn't have much time left in GP. The Ducati seat offers him the greatest chance of being successful.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jul 3 2008, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've thought about the risk of moving to a team with loads of question marks surrounding it. But if Hayden goes there and is successful, he will be a potential championship contender and have another five seasons in GPs. If he is unsuccessful, he will finish out his contract and limp to a satellite team somewhere or out of the series. If he goes to a satellite Honda straight away, even if he performs well he likely won't be offered a factory seat of any relevance and will eventually be replaced by a younger rider, likely within two to three seasons. If he doesn't perform, then he exits stage left.

No matter where he goes, if he doesn't perform he likely doesn't have much time left in GP. The Ducati seat offers him the greatest chance of being successful.
you make some good points mate. i thought going to ducati was to much of a gamble but after considering your point's above im tending to agree . its a .... or bust move.

Hayden may not have the pure talent as the top riders in Motogp but I think his worth is starting to show and the paddock is starting to take notice. It's obvious that Repsol runs the show and the only thing that matters to them is a Spanish champion, HRC just supplies what Repsol demands.

Hayden could have thrown in the towel or whined and bitched publicly but he has kept his mouth shut and repeatedly stated his team is working hard and it's he himself who needs to up his game. All the while relentlessly plugging away at developing what ever he had.

Other teams take notice of this type of attitude even if he is short on talent. Look at CEII. He won't ever be the champ but he is highly valued as a pilot who can develop and push a 2nd tier team onto the podium without wadding up millions of dollars worth of hardware. Allot of people on here were writing CEII off as a has been but do you think tech 3 wants to hold on to him?

The problem with DUC is a similiar one at HRC. Does the 2nd garage have the expertise, knowledge and know how to set up the bike correctly. What if it's not Melandri's fault? What if they just can't get the ..... set up?

The DUC looks like it has a larger wheel base than the Honda. Maybe the bike would suit Hayden better. You would think his back it in style would work much better on that settup.

I feel it is either Ducati or WSBK for Hayden. Anything else would be a stupid move.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jul 3 2008, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've thought about the risk of moving to a team with loads of question marks surrounding it. But if Hayden goes there and is successful, he will be a potential championship contender and have another five seasons in GPs. If he is unsuccessful, he will finish out his contract and limp to a satellite team somewhere or out of the series. If he goes to a satellite Honda straight away, even if he performs well he likely won't be offered a factory seat of any relevance and will eventually be replaced by a younger rider, likely within two to three seasons. If he doesn't perform, then he exits stage left.

No matter where he goes, if he doesn't perform he likely doesn't have much time left in GP. The Ducati seat offers him the greatest chance of being successful.
I think we agree on the facts.
Hayden has to get out of HRC
Yamaha, Suzuki, & Kawasaki are probably full
A satellite Honda would be a terrible move for so many reasons
Ducati are the only decent alternative and they have proved they have a WC winning bike.
Going there will be a do or die move
I'm just not as confident as you about his prospects there, I think they'd expect more than just barely outperforming Melandri, and as a fan I'd hate to see him running around midpack.
I hope he proves me wrong.

What does Nicky have to lose in going to a factory Ducati ride? Nothing in my opinion.
Is his career flourishing at HRC? no. I don't see the point in extending his contract there.
The fact that Nicky only found out Dani's chassis was different to his after getting the pneumatic valve engine says a lot about where he stands within HRC. He owes them nothing.

Lets look at his options.

Satellite Honda. - He will have a worse bike than he does now or he will be riding the 2008 version whilst the factory riders are on 2009 bikes. Bad bad move. Fighting in the midpack at best.

Kawasaki - They seem to be going backwards not forwards. Certainly would do better than West, but the bike doesn't seem capable of competing at the front.

Ducati - Sete seems to be able to ride it fast. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I´ve really enjoyed myself today and have had a completely new experience as a rider. The faster you go, the more obvious it becomes that this bike demands a real physical and mental effort, but when you manage to ride it well, the satisfaction is unique.´
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>`I hope my work has been of use to Filippo, to help understand the differences between the GP8 and GP9,´ he continued. `They are two machines with characteristics typical of Ducati, and the GP9, although new, has great potential.´
I think it is a little unfair to use Elias and Melandri as examples of how hard the Ducati is to come to terms with. Loris and Barros did not struggle to anywhere near the extent that Toni and Marco have. They both seem to have given up completely. The Ducati is the most competitive option for Nicky in 2009 and I think he should take a chance and sign on the dotted line if he hasn't already done so.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bojuhl @ Jul 3 2008, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden may not have the pure talent as the top riders in Motogp but I think his worth is starting to show and the paddock is starting to take notice. It's obvious that Repsol runs the show and the only thing that matters to them is a Spanish champion, HRC just supplies what Repsol demands.

Hayden could have thrown in the towel or whined and bitched publicly but he has kept his mouth shut and repeatedly stated his team is working hard and it's he himself who needs to up his game. All the while relentlessly plugging away at developing what ever he had.

Other teams take notice of this type of attitude even if he is short on talent. Look at CEII. He won't ever be the champ but he is highly valued as a pilot who can develop and push a 2nd tier team onto the podium without wadding up millions of dollars worth of hardware. Allot of people on here were writing CEII off as a has been but do you think tech 3 wants to hold on to him?

The problem with DUC is a similiar one at HRC. Does the 2nd garage have the expertise, knowledge and know how to set up the bike correctly. What if it's not Melandri's fault? What if they just can't get the ..... set up?

The DUC looks like it has a larger wheel base than the Honda. Maybe the bike would suit Hayden better. You would think his back it in style would work much better on that settup.

Great post.

I'm one of the guys who thinks Nicky got shafted by Honda. I've voiced that opinion many times over on the forum. It seems like we have many saying he is headed to Ducati, the rumor mill backs up this idea, and many think (and hope) he is somehow suited on a Ducati. I for one am a bit nervious if he does end up on Ducati. I have lots of respect for Loris and Marco and wonder what really is the problem (though we all have made an attempt to answer this, who really knows).

Having said that, I think he doesn't have too many options. And certainly he will always play second fiddle on Repsol (most agree). So I don't think he has much of a choice. Like I said on another thread, if I had my pick, it would be with Yamaha, they seem to have a bit more respect for their top talent. But obviously, they are full, so Ducati it may be.

I hope I don't spend another miserable year being a fair weather fan again, and again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 3 2008, 08:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Nicky will have to perform much better to get HRC to keep him.
Yes tom, we are aware he is underperforming. Thanks for the reminder.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Jul 3 2008, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think it is a little unfair to use Elias and Melandri as examples of how hard the Ducati is to come to terms with. Loris and Barros did not struggle to anywhere near the extent that Toni and Marco have. They both seem to have given up completely. The Ducati is the most competitive option for Nicky in 2009 and I think he should take a chance and sign on the dotted line if he hasn't already done so.

Good point Friz. I wouldn't go so far as to say Loris and Barros "did not struggle" but certainly they had a more positive experience than Elias and Melandri.

Actually, this gives me a bit of hope for Nicky. But like I said, I' nervous.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jul 3 2008, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've thought about the risk of moving to a team with loads of question marks surrounding it. But if Hayden goes there and is successful, he will be a potential championship contender and have another five seasons in GPs. If he is unsuccessful, he will finish out his contract and limp to a satellite team somewhere or out of the series. If he goes to a satellite Honda straight away, even if he performs well he likely won't be offered a factory seat of any relevance and will eventually be replaced by a younger rider, likely within two to three seasons. If he doesn't perform, then he exits stage left.

No matter where he goes, if he doesn't perform he likely doesn't have much time left in GP. The Ducati seat offers him the greatest chance of being successful.

My thoughts exactly. Errr. I'm on pins and needles. I need him to show the world that 06 was not a fluke. The last 2 years have been a disaster. I think most reasonable people would agree that the bike had much to do with it (maybe except Tom & co.). The one thing I fear is that if he does end up on a Ducati (still only a rumor), he may be going to a situation like the one he would be leaving. Let me explain. Usually, under "normal" circumstances, the guy you win a title with is the guy you favor and develop a bike around. This logic seems not apply to Honda. However, most other teams would follow this logic, including Ducati (yeah, I know, crazy). They have a proven champion in Stoner, so of course, I'm nervous that Nicky would be again in a situation where he is #2, this time justified! With Ducati, it’s totally understandable and reasonable to expect this and I would also if I were in their shoes. Many tried to make this leap (like Tom) to license Honda the pass to developed around Pedrosa, who has yet to win a title. But in Ducati's case, they would reasonably develop around Stoner. Oh man, I just had the crazy idea, are Ducati interested in a development rider for Stoner? (After-all, many say Casey nor Nicky can develop a bike, right?) Thoughts anyone…

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 3 2008, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>its a .... or bust move.

Does he have a choice? Really, its a shame it has to be this way, for a champions no less. But ...., he doesn't have much of a chance to advance and win another title at Honda. I'll tell you what, if he makes the podium at Laguna, you wear a Hayden t-...., if Rossi makes the podium, I'll wear a Rossi T-shirt--whata ya say?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 4 2008, 02:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Does he have a choice? Really, its a shame it has to be this way, for a champions no less. But ...., he doesn't have much of a chance to advance and win another title at Honda. I'll tell you what, if he makes the podium at Laguna, you wear a Hayden t-...., if Rossi makes the podium, I'll wear a Rossi T-shirt--whata ya say?
your on mate, but i aint wearing a ....... stoner shirt even if he wins by a 50 second lead

...., it's just dawned on me, i fly out in 13 days !!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 4 2008, 01:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes tom, we are aware he is underperforming. Thanks for the reminder.

Sorry, it doesn't seem a particularly productive input, but people seemed to be talking as if another HRC contract was an entitlement of his. Some even think that performing well will lose him the contract, because HRC are trying to lose or something.

Honestly I think ducati is starting to look like Nickies best option, and i'm thinking positively about it as an idea. He may have to play #2 in the team, but he says himself that parts follow results so its all on him.

No way does Hayden leave MotoGP until he wants to.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jul 4 2008, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No way does Hayden leave MotoGP until he wants to.

Honda have proved in the past they don't care personally about riders... only winning.

Ya but Honda isn't the only team and he would hardly leave on bad terms. A Honda satellite team is a good possiblity since he knows the machine inside out. Lots of choices for him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jul 4 2008, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ya but Honda isn't the only team and he would hardly leave on bad terms. A Honda satellite team is a good possiblity since he knows the machine inside out. Lots of choices for him.
His options would surely be open should he be shown the door, but I think he'd be too good a score for another team to not be offered a factory ride somewhere.....if HRC shows him out, hes out of Honda for good i bet....