Ducati will not build a Yamaha 'clone'

gui22a · Jan 1, 2011

Ducati team boss Vittoriano Guareschi says there is no intention to turn the squad's bike 'into a Yamaha' despite the arrival of Valentino Rossi and his crew. Guareschi acknowledged that Ducati was keen to benefit from Rossi and his crew chief Jerry Burgess' title-winning experience, but said so far the indications were that Burgess and his colleagues were happy with the Italian bike's fundamental potential.

"They're acclimatising well, they like our craftsman-like soul, after so many years with the Japanese," Guareschi told Gazzetta dello Sport.

"Jerry gives me ease of mind. Generally there's serenity: we just need to improve our bike, not turn it into a copy of the Yamaha."

He reiterated the team's belief that Rossi's slow times in November's Valencia test were more down to the Italian's injured shoulder than any lack of affinity between him and the Ducati, and said that Rossi had provided enough feedback to direct the initial 2011 development.

"We have gone in the direction that Valentino pointed us in," said Guareschi. "The lap times were not too encouraging, so to say, but after seeing what condition his shoulder was in we felt reassured. Our bike must be handled strongly, and he had little strength in Valencia."

Ducati's sporting boss Filippo Preziosi said the team was geared up for rapid development work if Rossi felt it was on the wrong path.

"We have tried to create the conditions where we are ready to design, in the shortest time possible, the parts we think are useful to have a better bike," Preziosi told Motosprint. "Of all the things we had in our list, we have chosen only the important ones and that's where we've focused.

"After all, hiring Valentino is not just having a very quick rider, but also one that is able to give correct indications for the bike's development. So we must make the most of this hugely important asset for the company."

But he said so far that was no suggestion that Rossi was unhappy with the Ducati's characteristics.

"Based on Valentino's comments, it seems unnecessary to radically change the project," said Preziosi. "However, we are ready to do it, should it become necessary."

Source

J4rn0 · Jan 2, 2011

gui22a said:
Source

Of course they will not - it's impossible anyway, with that engine architecture. It will just be a Rossified Ducati

L8Braker · Jan 2, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Of course they will not - it's impossible anyway, with that engine architecture. It will just be a Rossified Ducati

If they get feel/heat in the front and keep the rear grip level the same I'm thinking Rossi will be happy.

DRILL · Jan 2, 2011

Vale will be ok,anything major would be hopefully tackled b4 the season begins.At the end of the day it wont just be one team with a problem,all teams have their gremlins.Onwards to the big motors in 2012.

Keshav · Jan 3, 2011

DRILL said:
Vale will be ok,anything major would be hopefully tackled b4 the season begins.At the end of the day it wont just be one team with a problem,all teams have their gremlins.Onwards to the big motors in 2012.

Don't get yer hopes up brother. The riders have been saying it's going to be "big motors with big electronics" - with the same fuel limitations

as before. Unless MSMA backs off on their agenda the rodeo won't be coming back to town any time soon.

Jumkie · Jan 3, 2011

This reminds me of Yamaha's denial of an ultimatum, despite all indication to the contrary. Ducat:i 'we are not building a Yamaha'. Translation: they are building a Yamaha.

"We have tried to create the conditions where we are ready to design, in the shortest time possible, the parts we think are useful to have a better bike,"

"Based on Valentino's comments, it seems unnecessary to radically change the project," said Preziosi. "However, we are ready to do it, should it become necessary."

I think they did, and I think they have.

yamaka46 · Jan 3, 2011

Jumkie said:
This reminds me of Yamaha's denial of an ultimatum, despite all indication to the contrary. Ducat:i 'we are not building a Yamaha'. Translation: they are building a Yamaha.

I think they did, and I think they have.

Thing is Jum, so far I've seen no indications to the contrary. I have heard nothing that implies they are planning on moving away from the no-chassis concept.

Mind you, it could well be a completely different kettle of fish for 2012.....

J4rn0 · Jan 3, 2011

Jumkie said:
This reminds me of Yamaha's denial of an ultimatum, despite all indication to the contrary. Ducat:i 'we are not building a Yamaha'. Translation: they are building a Yamaha.

I think they did, and I think they have.

To build a Yamaha they would have to design an IL4 desmo and mount it on a deltabox.

DRILL · Jan 3, 2011

Keshav said:
Don't get yer hopes up brother. The riders have been saying it's going to be "big motors with big electronics" - with the same fuel limitations

as before. Unless MSMA backs off on their agenda the rodeo won't be coming back to town any time soon.

I`ll hold on to that thread of hope until it breaks,matey.

Jumkie · Jan 3, 2011

Yamaka & J4rno, technically correct. The spirit of what I'm saying is, they will change the bike dramatically. So when I say they are building a Yamaha, I'm basically saying they are making BIG changes.

J4rn0 · Jan 4, 2011

Jumkie said:
Yamaka & J4rno, technically correct. The spirit of what I'm saying is, they will change the bike dramatically. So when I say they are building a Yamaha, I'm basically saying they are making BIG changes.

So why say 'they will build a Yamaha'. That's misleading. "BIG" changes in the case of Ducati can only mean encasing their existing engine in some kind of deltabox frame, which most probably would be in CF, not even aluminum. That's light years away from a Yamaha. The closest Jap bike would be the Honda, rather than the Yam. Even the Suzuki which is a V engine in a deltabox frame woulkd be more similar to such a Ducati than the Yamaha.

Tom · Jan 4, 2011

J4rn0 said:
So why say 'they will build a Yamaha'. That's misleading.

I think they could build a Yamaha clone in the sense that they could try and get their bike to behave like an M1. That doesn't mean they have to use an inline 4 or use a conventional chassis, it just means they reckognize the advantagous characteristics of another bike and look to obtain the same thing for their bike.

J4rn0 · Jan 4, 2011

Tom said:
I think they could build a Yamaha clone in the sense that they could try and get their bike to behave like an M1. That doesn't mean they have to use an inline 4 or use a conventional chassis, it just means they reckognize the advantagous characteristics of another bike and look to obtain the same thing for their bike.

But that's exactly the point: the peculiar characteristics of the M1 are strictly tied to its peculiar architecture (IL4 engine allowing for a shorter and better handling bike) and cannot be replicated on different architectures. The quest for better front end feeling has nothing to do with "Yamahaizing" the Ducati, that's all about addressing a weak point of the Ducati design that is probably connected to its' "no-frame" concept. A sensitive front end is not something only Yamaha has, Honda as well has a good front end (as Stoner said) so now Ducati also will try to get it.

If Ducati decide to go more towards mainstream Jap design regarding the frame, they will look more towards Honda than towards Yamaha, since Honda shares the V engine architecture with them. But I still doubt they will, or will have to.

xx CURVE xx · Jan 4, 2011

they to loose that stupid set up they have and run a normal frame

yamaka46 · Jan 4, 2011

J4rn0 said:
But that's exactly the point: the peculiar characteristics of the M1 are strictly tied to its peculiar architecture (IL4 engine allowing for a shorter and better handling bike) and cannot be replicated on different architectures. The quest for better front end feeling has nothing to do with "Yamahaizing" the Ducati, that's all about addressing a weak point of the Ducati design that is probably connected to its' "no-frame" concept. A sensitive front end is not something only Yamaha has, Honda as well has a good front end (as Stoner said) so now Ducati also will try to get it.

If Ducati decide to go more towards mainstream Jap design regarding the frame, they will look more towards Honda than towards Yamaha, since Honda shares the V engine architecture with them. But I still doubt they will, or will have to.

Agree with you completely - would be very surprised to see a frame appear on the Duke. Also I think that the power delivery of either format of Duke motor is significantly different to the I4 and I don't expect that to change. As Burgess said, Rossi will have to adapt to the Duke to some extent, but ironing out the frot end issues is doubtless the number one task.

Jumkie · Jan 4, 2011

~~J4rno, Yamaka,~~ Open question: What is the message coming out of Ducati at the moment regard what they must do for Rossi to be competitive?

Here is a hint:

After a 15th place on Rossi's Ducati debut during testing at Valencia, Ducati confessed changes will be needed to allow the seven time MotoGP champion to ride as he would like. crash.net

What would be Rossi's realistic chances if Ducati did not make major improvements but rather the small, very small incremental improvements they would have made had Stoner and Nicky remained as factory riders?

inam22 · Jan 4, 2011

Jumkie said:
~~J4rno, Yamaka,~~ Open question: What is the message coming out of Ducati at the moment regard what they must do for Rossi to be competitive?

Here is a hint:

What would be Rossi's realistic chances if Ducati did not make major improvements but rather the small, very small incremental improvements they would have made had Stoner and Nicky remained as factory riders?

Jumkie for once pay attenion, this current message is coming out of Ducati as well.

Jumkie · Jan 4, 2011

inam said:
Jumkie for once pay attenion, this is current message is coming out of Ducati as well.

I'm a bit confused. Are you saying yes, this is the current message coming from Duc?

J4rn0 · Jan 4, 2011

Jumkie said:
~~J4rno, Yamaka,~~ Open question: What is the message coming out of Ducati at the moment regard what they must do for Rossi to be competitive?

Here is a hint:

What would be Rossi's realistic chances if Ducati did not make major improvements but rather the small, very small incremental improvements they would have made had Stoner and Nicky remained as factory riders?

What improvements? Ducati are just following the inputs of Rossi&JB after 2 days of not-so-good tests. Of course, they are not making any changes to their design after such short (and unsatisfactory) tests! Would you?

They are just playing with what they have, which is the same basic package Stoner had. The possibility to change the stiffness of the CF according to needs was stated as one of the main advantages of CF when they made the switch from trellis, which means that they are not going out of their way but simply trying to follow the inputs given by the new rider using the possibilities already built into their existing design.

That's not even "incremental" improvements, because it has yet to be demonstrated that it is an improvement at all...! Not to speak of "major improvements" that are all in the realm of vaporware.

Hint: Maybe it would be better to wait and see, rather than jump ahead asking such premature (and preconceived) questions.

xx CURVE xx · Jan 4, 2011

Jumkie said:
~~J4rno, Yamaka,~~

What would be Rossi's realistic chances if

yawn...

What would Michael Jordan's realistic chances if he had to play in high heals?

Ducati will not build a Yamaha 'clone'

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