Ducati GP9 Insight from Canepa

Hayden spoke about the Ducati's rear pumping issue on MCN (below), and interestingly he says the problem gets worse when one tries to use the hard Bridgestone rear tyre (the same Stoner uses...).

So the issue here seems double: Ducatis' edge is tied to being able to exploit fully the engine's power on corner exit, and that is possible, apparently, only by using a hard rear tyre that, for all but Stoner, actually makes the pumping... worse!

But if one gives up the hard tyre and resigns to using the soft compund, then it seems that all hopes of reaching Stoner fade away... A catch-22.

I still think Hayden is the one who can get close to Stoner on the Ducati. We'll see...


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Nicky Hayden lacking rear confidence

By Matthew Birt

MotoGP

20 February 2009 09:29

American Nicky Hayden reckons he must adapt to the aggressive pumping from the rear of Ducati’s new factory GP9 as the start of the 2009 MotoGP campaign approaches.

One of the biggest issues the 2006 world champion has struggled to cope with is Ducati’s notorious rear pumping problem, triggered under hard acceleration.

The issue has been improved with Ducati’s gamble on an exotic carbon fibre chassis, but Hayden struggled with the issue during recent testing at the Sepang circuit in Malaysia when he could only finish 11th quickest.

“The bike is unpredictable so it’s hard to get down to where I need to be. On the exit of the corners I’m still having some problems with stability and some issues with the pumping.

"Everywhere else it is really stable like on the brakes and in the fast corners but on the exit is when it really breaks loose, “said the former Repsol Honda rider.

The pumping problem was exaggerated by Hayden’s struggle to gel with the hard compound Bridgestone rear tyre.

He said: “It makes the pumping worse on the exit because it breaks away and tries to hook and transfers to the front and gets unpredictable and it is hard to get in a rhythm. I need to figure that tyre out.”

Hayden better head off to the secret practice facility or he is going to get left behind. With less practice time before races he only has two more free practices to figure it out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Feb 20 2009, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://www.crash.net/MotoGP/News/143186/1/...ci_insight.html

Excerpt

But the only non-Stoner victory is a wet/dry win for Loris Capirossi in the 2007 Japanese Grand Prix - while Toni Elias was the next best Ducati rider with two podiums and eleventh overall last year - making the 800cc Desmosedici the most 'mysterious' motorcycle on the MotoGP grid.

Even with the knowledge of computer data and technical understanding learnt as a mechanical engineering student, Canepa admits it is hard to pinpoint exactly how Stoner goes so much faster than every other Desmosedici rider.

“Stoner brakes later and opens the throttle sooner!” smiled the Pramac rider. “I don't know exactly what Stoner does better than us. I know he uses a lot of rear brake, but so does Nicky [Hayden]. When you enter the corner the rear brake helps to close the line.”

One area where many GP9 riders are currently losing time is on corner exit, with the rear of the bike 'pumping' up and down as the power is applied. Canepa revealed that it was actually a much bigger problem on the 2008 machine and believes it is caused by opening the throttle too aggressively.

In contrast to suggestions that Stoner's success is down to pinning the throttle and letting the electronics sort it out, Canepa believes that careful use of the throttle is the key to extracting a good lap time from the Desmosedici.

I think the throttle control is something the electronics can sort out, but only with the help of Stoner. He's not likely to give away his edge (unless he sits out the season).

Maybe more likely that magnetti marelli map is responsible for throttle response.. easy for techs to keep a lid on software edge....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chockmoose @ Feb 20 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe more likely that magnetti marelli map is responsible for throttle response.. easy for techs to keep a lid on software edge....

or stoner really is as good as his results would suggest....?

I expect the next test things will be different. Ducati want all of their bikes up front not just Stoner.

Say what you will about Stoner being a whiny cry-baby, but my hat is off to him. It's obvious that the Desmo is a tough bull to ride and he rides that monster like a French whore.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tremulant @ Feb 20 2009, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Say what you will about Stoner being a whiny cry-baby, but my hat is off to him. It's obvious that the Desmo is a tough bull to ride and he rides that monster like a French whore.

+ 2..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tremulant @ Feb 20 2009, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>he rides that monster like a French whore.

Tell me more about that

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Feb 20 2009, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tell me more about that

stoner seems to hang off the bike alot more than others coming out of a corner and for longer even when hes straightening up the bike, he also leans quite forward when doing so.... im wondering if this stops the bike sqwirming so much because he is shifting more weight towards the front, taking some of his weight off the rear to combat the pumping?

i think he has the rite style to ride the bike, it just cant be down to suspension settings because many riders have the same prob except him.

i dont think its setting's i think its down to the riders style.

look how far around the front he leans and low he practically hangs rite off the machine

He turns up his TC to 11... thats it.

I'm not convinced this is really worth posting, but I can't help but cringe at American journalist's annoying ability to state the obvious:

excerpts from"Hayden’s Ducati prospects evaluated by US media "

"Matthew Miles, Managing Editor of Cycle World magazine, adds, 'My personal take on Nicky Hayden is that he may not have the most talent in the MotoGP paddock, but no one can argue with his determination. The past two seasons with Honda were difficult for Hayden. He struggled in 2007 and, once again, in 2008 on the tiny RC212V, but when Honda finally – and grudgingly – delivered the pneumatic-valve version of the V-Four engine, he finished strong, running at or near the front and never placing worse than fifth in the final five races.'"

“Hayden will need everything in his personal arsenal to achieve success with Ducati. It won’t be easy to catch front-running teammate Casey Stoner, even if the Aussie’s wrist isn’t fully functional, as Marco Melandri learned this past season. There are other potential hurdles, too, such as a largely Italian-speaking crew, new electronics and the series-spec Bridgestones. None of this will be made easier with the recently announced rule changes, namely shortened practice sessions.”

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Feb 20 2009, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner seems to hang off the bike alot more than others coming out of a corner and for longer even when hes straightening up the bike, he also leans quite forward when doing so.... im wondering if this stops the bike sqwirming so much because he is shifting more weight towards the front, taking some of his weight off the rear to combat the pumping?

i think he has the rite style to ride the bike, it just cant be down to suspension settings because many riders have the same prob except him.

i dont think its setting's i think its down to the riders style.

look how far around the front he leans and low he practically hangs rite off the machine

I never had any doubts about Stoner's ability--no way a TC can do that kind of incredible service, for one rider only...!

I think the key is the hard tyre--a tyre only Stoner and Rossi use in the whole paddock. All other riders 'lose' the bike if they try that compund. Why? How? Something to wonder about...

Riding secret have never been revealed by any champion. Each one is alone in this game, at this level.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Feb 21 2009, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>6173:stoner.jpg]Nuff said!

this is exactly what i mean, hes almost off the bike and gets his body really low, i think if hayden wants to corner the duke without the pumping hes gonna have to hang of the bike more.

stoner wouldnt hang of it like that for no reason, the duke is wider than most bikes and stoner seems to get himself around the fuel tank.

hayden will get it in the end im sure as he never fails to quit.

at the end of the day i think he needs to adjust his cornering style for the ducati and he will be on his way.

you must give him time to adjust cos for the last 2 season's hes been riding a bike built for a gnome

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Feb 21 2009, 08:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner seems to hang off the bike alot more than others coming out of a corner and for longer even when hes straightening up the bike, he also leans quite forward when doing so.... im wondering if this stops the bike sqwirming so much because he is shifting more weight towards the front, taking some of his weight off the rear to combat the pumping?

i think he has the rite style to ride the bike, it just cant be down to suspension settings because many riders have the same prob except him.

i dont think its setting's i think its down to the riders style.

look how far around the front he leans and low he practically hangs rite off the machine
Shifting weight away from the rear would increase the loss of traction at the rear.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Feb 21 2009, 08:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner seems to hang off the bike alot more than others coming out of a corner and for longer even when hes straightening up the bike, he also leans quite forward when doing so.... im wondering if this stops the bike sqwirming so much because he is shifting more weight towards the front, taking some of his weight off the rear to combat the pumping?

I think you have a good point here ....... and Stoner neing an ex dirt rider it might explain part of it to.

I don't think its squirming any less .... but I know from dirt riding myself ...... if you want the back to flick around a bit it helps to get way forward and just let the back do its thing ...... and with sitting right forward it actually lightens the back and lets it squirm freely, but most importantly the effect of the back squirming, on the actual rider, is less the more you sit forward toward the front (which on the dirt one tries to think of as "the stable end"). Might also explain why Stoner is said to "complain" about the front ...... it is of paramount importance in such a riding style.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Feb 21 2009, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Shifting weight away from the rear would increase the loss of traction at the rear.

yes ..... see my above post ....... I think thats a positive thing though.


but I will add .......

thinking about this has now made me wonder if Hayden will need to hhhhmmmm ....... the expression used to be ...... "root the tank ...... ( aussies will understand )) to basically climb all over the tank to get the weight off the back. He kinda looks too stretched out from the vid's I've seen so far.

WHich makes me wonder if Tremulant isn't more accurate than he realises when he said:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tremulant @ Feb 21 2009, 06:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>he rides that monster like a French whore.



It also makes me wonder about actual rider physical build too ....... Stoner is a skinny assed and legged fella ( seems wider at the top than waist ) if Hayden is much bulkier around the legs and ... then its going to be harder for him to get that weight up front to let the back loose.


As a sidenote ......... gee I wish we got to see McCoy ride the Duc.!! ..... that would answer a few questions or be just plain awesome to watch anyway