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Dovi to SRT for Remainder of 2021

Marquez is the best I have seen in ~ 40 years of watching the sport.
To beat him like that, multiple times, is pretty impressive.

In a nutshell.

When folks naysay him, I think of him making multiple absolutely impossible passes at Motegi in the rain, against Marquez at the top of his game, and I think - How quickly people forget.
 
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I hadn't particularly rated him either.
Those last lap dices he had with Marquez and came out on top, changed my opinion.
Marquez is the best I have seen in ~ 40 years of watching the sport.
To beat him like that, multiple times, is pretty impressive.

It was IMO very telling that of those last lap battles all the ones Dovi won were at tracks that heavily favoured the Duc. But beating Marquez in a last lap battle multiple times is still one hell of a boast that currently no other rider is able to replicate.

That pass at Motegi for the win might be the best overtake I have seen. It felt like he came from halfway down the straight to outbrake him in the wet when he could have quite easily settled for a commendable second after pushing Marquez to the limit on Honda's track.
 
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It was IMO very telling that of those last lap battles all the ones Dovi won were at tracks that heavily favoured the Duc. But beating Marquez in a last lap battle multiple times is still one hell of a boast that currently no other rider is able to replicate.

That pass at Motegi for the win might be the best overtake I have seen. It felt like he came from halfway down the straight to outbrake him in the wet when he could have quite easily settled for a commendable second after pushing Marquez to the limit on Honda's track.

Great passes using great racecraft and choosing where the characteristics of the Ducati helped him giving MM no chance to recover.

I don’t know about MM’s racecraft other than his ability to preserve tires/ride on worn tires. He mainly relies on raw pace otherwise imo, including one lap pace and was capable formerly of a close to impossibly fast/banzai qualifying lap or last lap, and he is or was also a decisive passer, perhaps at times along the lines of Ayrton Senna ie let me pass or we will collide. So great credit to Dovi for being able to pass him when he is in last lap mode, but I personally don’t consider MM’s own last lap racecraft to be exceptional
 
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All credit to Dovi for showing his mettle and ability to ride with cunning in the heat of dog fight with MM. However, the amount of times I have witnessed this is too low for me to rate him particularly highly. It’s no different, IMO, to Vinales and his raw pace. Yes, he can be unstoppable on his good day but they have been so relatively few and far between that he is now in the position that he is. Of course, his blowing a fuse in frustration with his team clearly blaming them for his lack of showing, contributed to his current debacle.

I expect Dovi to continue to be just the way he had been. Great rides on the background of a majority of average ones. If a team recruits him mainly for his experience and ability to give feedback that helps improve the bikes performance, then I can certainly see with that. But for championship contention? I don’t think so.
 
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All credit to Dovi for showing his mettle and ability to ride with cunning in the heat of dog fight with MM. However, the amount of times I have witnessed this is too low for me to rate him particularly highly.

My thoughts exactly. Dovi seems to get a pass for occasionally showing his speed, when others get chastised for it.
Also, for me, he had 10 years in the sport before he became competitive, including 3 on a Factory Honda and he was comprehensively outperformed by his team mates.
I expect Dovi to continue to be just the way he had been. Great rides on the background of a majority of average ones. If a team recruits him mainly for his experience and ability to give feedback that helps improve the bikes performance, then I can certainly see with that. But for championship contention? I don’t think so.

That's the thing. His feedback will be useless because he will be on a B spec (i.e. 2 yr old) M1.
 
That's the thing. His feedback will be useless because he will be on a B spec (i.e. 2 yr old) M1.

I don't think entirely useless. At one point, Morbidelli's experience with the older spec bike was being used to compare the new with the old to assess development direction. Additionally, I'm inclined to think data and experience with the tyres can be translated to some extent.
 
All credit to Dovi for showing his mettle and ability to ride with cunning in the heat of dog fight with MM. However, the amount of times I have witnessed this is too low for me to rate him particularly highly. It’s no different, IMO, to Vinales and his raw pace. Yes, he can be unstoppable on his good day but they have been so relatively few and far between that he is now in the position that he is. Of course, his blowing a fuse in frustration with his team clearly blaming them for his lack of showing, contributed to his current debacle.

I expect Dovi to continue to be just the way he had been. Great rides on the background of a majority of average ones. If a team recruits him mainly for his experience and ability to give feedback that helps improve the bikes performance, then I can certainly see with that. But for championship contention? I don’t think so.

Respectfully disagree. None of the so-called "Aliens" achieved greatness with raw speed alone. Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo etc, didn't depend on a good holeshot, followed by running away from the pack. They were all great both at coming from a few rows back, and being able to fearlessly re-pass, a quality Vinales has not exhibited with any regularity.
 
Respectfully disagree. None of the so-called "Aliens" achieved greatness with raw speed alone. Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo etc, didn't depend on a good holeshot, followed by running away from the pack. They were all great both at coming from a few rows back, and being able to fearlessly re-pass, a quality Vinales has not exhibited with any regularity.

No disagreement since we are commenting on different things. I never claimed or implied your initial statement.
 
No disagreement since we are commenting on different things. I never claimed or implied your initial statement.

I am not a fan of straw man arguments. You made, what I thought was an erroneous comparison between Dovi and Vinales, and I was disagreeing by pointing out the dissimilarity between the two, in that while Dovi tho not an “alien” was more like Rossi, Stoner et al, in that his victories such as they are, have not been dependent on raw speed alone.
 
My thoughts exactly. Dovi seems to get a pass for occasionally showing his speed, when others get chastised for it.
Also, for me, he had 10 years in the sport before he became competitive, including 3 on a Factory Honda and he was comprehensively outperformed by his team mates.


That's the thing. His feedback will be useless because he will be on a B spec (i.e. 2 yr old) M1.


Actually, the A spec bike is the older bike. ;)
 
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Respectfully disagree. None of the so-called "Aliens" achieved greatness with raw speed alone. Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo etc, didn't depend on a good holeshot, followed by running away from the pack. They were all great both at coming from a few rows back, and being able to fearlessly re-pass, a quality Vinales has not exhibited with any regularity.

You are a fan which is entirely reasonable given some of those wins. I don't think Dovi or anyone else would have beaten MM in a last lap stoush with him on the 2014 Honda and the opponents also on 2014 equipment though. The latter day Honda has been a pig built for speed alone and not really for dogfighting, not that this is anyone's problem other than Honda's and perhaps MM's who has presumably had some influence on the bike's characteristics.
 
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I am not a fan of straw man arguments. You made, what I thought was an erroneous comparison between Dovi and Vinales, and I was disagreeing by pointing out the dissimilarity between the two, in that while Dovi tho not an “alien” was more like Rossi, Stoner et al, in that his victories such as they are, have not been dependent on raw speed alone.

I made no straw man. You misunderstood. I was not making the sort of comparison you thought. I simply opined that Dovi’s good weekends are on a background of too many average ones. Vinales similarly has great weekends on a backdrop of too many average ones. That’s where any comparison I made ends. Why they each have this issue, what their strengths are as racers, is something else to look at. On this latter question, I do feel Maverick depends on raw pace to get results since he can be extremely quick on a good day leading to typically dominant victories, but this is on a backdrop of too many weekends when his pace is strangely average, leading to average results. He is not known to fight his way through the field and showing the sort of race craft and cunning that are in contrast, Dovi’s strong points.

This latter analysis doesn’t take away from the simple similarity in that we have two riders who are, I think, above average riders on the MotoGP grid, but who each exhibit an inconsistency with outstanding performances which do not go well with a championship winning campaign. They will be championship contenders and almost rans. We will have stories to tell of how close they came to winning a championship but never quite did.
 
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OMG! :p:p:p I wasn’t implying you were guilty of a straw man argument. It was that it seemed you were accusing me of that.
 
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I made no straw man. You misunderstood. I was not making the sort of comparison you thought. I simply opined that Dovi’s good weekends are on a background of too many average ones. Vinales similarly has great weekends on a backdrop of too many average ones. That’s where any comparison I made ends. Why they each have this issue, what their strengths are as racers, is something else to look at. On this latter question, I do feel Maverick depends on raw pace to get results since he can be extremely quick on a good day leading to typically dominant victories, but this is on a backdrop of too many weekends when his pace is strangely average, leading to average results. He is not known to fight his way through the field and showing the sort of race craft and cunning that are in contrast, Dovi’s strong points.

This latter analysis doesn’t take away from the simple similarity in that we have two riders who are, I think, above average riders on the MotoGP grid, but who each exhibit an inconsistency with outstanding performances which do not go well with a championship winning campaign. They will be championship contenders and almost rans. We will have stories to tell of how close they came to winning a championship but never quite did.
We are in agreement about both riders. A bad result for an elite rider in a title winning year with no mishaps is 4th, maybe 5th, not struggling to have the pace to make the top 10.
 
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