Crutchlow's Fuel Issue

Lyria · Oct 16, 2012

Okay so as you all know, I know diddly squat about some parts of the racing but I do want to learn. What I don't understand is how Cal Cructhlow ran out of fuel in the last race. Is it something he did wrong? Was it like he was over revving or something? Was it a bike issue?

Can anyone explain it for me in simple to understand terms please?

Much appreicated if you can and sorry if this appears to be a dumb question, if you don't ask you don't find out do you?

Mick D · Oct 17, 2012

Best answer from David Emmett - Kropotkin, at Motomatters.com

Less of a mystery was the premature end to Cal Crutchlow's race. While victory was decided quickly and soporifically, the battle for 3rd was fantastic. Alvaro Bautista caught Crutchlow with a few laps to go, after hanging back a little behind the Tech 3 man in order to save his brakes. With five laps left Bautista made his move, and the two men neither gave nor asked for any quarter. Crutchlow had had one attack fail in the penultimate lap, and was lining up a final attempt on the last lap when his bike cut out. He had run out of fuel.

Crutchlow put it down to having run a very fast pace from the beginning, and from having spent so much time alone and without the benefit of a slipstream - aerodynamics is such that both leading and trailing bikes benefit from a slipstream, the rear bike from having the front bike punch a hole in the air, the front bike from having the rear bike reduce the amount of drag caused by turbulence behind the bike. Despite the extremely advanced electronics on the MotoGP bikes, which are continuously calculating fuel load and fuel usage, and adjusting the engine characteristics accordingly, there is still sufficient control left in the hands of the rider to catch the electronics out. Spending some twelve laps riding smoothly and alone, the ECU gave Crutchlow a little more fuel to use to keep up his pace. However, once battle commenced with Bautista, Crutchlow's riding style and throttle use changed sufficiently to throw the fuel calculations out of whack.

Instead of circulating smoothly, Crutchlow was braking harder, sacrificing corner speed at some points to make a pass, then having to make that up by accelerating harder. That uses more fuel; precisely the fuel that the ECU had set aside for the final third of a lap. Crutchlow parked his bike at the side of the track, and was forced to hitch a ride back to the pits on the back of Jorge Lorenzo's M1. "At least I got a ride on the factory Yamaha," Crutchlow joked afterwards.

Motegi is one of the toughest tracks for fuel, with a lot of heavy braking followed by hard acceleration, and including a 300 km/h back straight, which guzzles fuel pushing the bikes through the air at that speed. Raising the capacity from 800cc to 1000cc exacerbated the problems of fuel scarcity. There are a lot of reasons to get rid of the fuel limit, most of which revolve around the explosive effect they have on cost. Making it to the end of the race with just 21 liters of fuel while still going fast enough to win requires a lot of sophisticated electronics, and a lot of expensive ingenuity to invent, design and implement that sophistication.

Lyria · Oct 17, 2012

Thanks for that Mick, so basically it wasn't really Cal's fault, just a whole bunch of things that led to it working out badly for him then. Good to know

Zootalaws · Oct 17, 2012

Lyria said:
Thanks for that Mick, so basically it wasn't really Cal's fault...

'Fault' is such an ugly word

Too much right hand. The other three Yamaha's managed to finish the race without running out. Cal himself said he used too much fuel running hard at the beginning of the race, then in his duel with Bautista he burned up what he had.

He could have run a conservative race and finished behind Bautista, as his team-mate did, but it's not in his nature. He has two speeds - slowing down and accelerating

Lyria · Oct 17, 2012

Yeah but don't you just love a rider who won't give up? What's the fun in riding a conservative race? Oh I know, you finish and you get points for the championship, but when you're competitive (and believe me, I am) you can't do that, you have to go all out. I admire that in a rider, I don't want someone who gives up too easily. Okay it cost him big time this race but I bet he'd do it again in another race with a similar situation

Geonerd · Oct 17, 2012

I'm not entirely sure I go along with that explanation.

The computer should always know how much gas it started the race with, how much has been burned, and therefore how much it has left. Same story for the distance. It knows what lap it's on down to the corner. From this it should be able to continuously calculate the bike's previous MPG, and the MPG required to make it to the line. It also knows the limit of how much it can lean out the mix. From this data, it should have little difficulty calculating a critical fuel level for each lap. If the remaining fuel falls below this minimum curve, the rider may/will run out gas. The computer will then do what it must to avoid falling 'behind the curve.' It's fairly easy for the software to simply say 'No' when the rider demands more throttle than can be sustained. It can also cut fuel by using a little TC-like injector shutdown on the straights.

I think we've seen this before. Remember a few years back at Laguna, when Pedrosa nearly lost a position to Flossi? The computer strangled his bike and he lost multiple seconds over the last few laps.

I think T3 mis-measured the fuel or did a finger-slip when plugging the numbers into the computer; either would make the ECU think it had more than was actually in the tank. Cal was running gung-ho right till the point his bike stopped. I think the ECU was just as surprised as he! Maybe the T3 fuel dude was sick and Yamaha loaned them the guy from Ben's team.

thedeal · Oct 17, 2012

Geonerd said:
I'm not entirely sure I go along with that explanation.

The computer should always know how much gas it started the race with, how much has been burned, and therefore how much it has left. Same story for the distance. It knows what lap it's on down to the corner. From this it should be able to continuously calculate the bike's previous MPG, and the MPG required to make it to the line. It also knows the limit of how much it can lean out the mix. From this data, it should have little difficulty calculating a critical fuel level for each lap. If the remaining fuel falls below this minimum curve, the rider may/will run out gas. The computer will then do what it must to avoid falling 'behind the curve.' It's fairly easy for the software to simply say 'No' when the rider demands more throttle than can be sustained. It can also cut fuel by using a little TC-like injector shutdown on the straights.

I think we've seen this before. Remember a few years back at Laguna, when Pedrosa nearly lost a position to Flossi? The computer strangled his bike and he lost multiple seconds over the last few laps.

I think T3 mis-measured the fuel or did a finger-slip when plugging the numbers into the computer; either would make the ECU think it had more than was actually in the tank. Cal was running gung-ho right till the point his bike stopped. I think the ECU was just as surprised as he! Maybe the T3 fuel dude was sick and Yamaha loaned them the guy from Ben's team.

Like it.

Kropotkin · Oct 17, 2012

Geonerd said:
I'm not entirely sure I go along with that explanation.

The computer should always know how much gas it started the race with, how much has been burned, and therefore how much it has left. Same story for the distance. It knows what lap it's on down to the corner. From this it should be able to continuously calculate the bike's previous MPG, and the MPG required to make it to the line. It also knows the limit of how much it can lean out the mix. From this data, it should have little difficulty calculating a critical fuel level for each lap. If the remaining fuel falls below this minimum curve, the rider may/will run out gas. The computer will then do what it must to avoid falling 'behind the curve.' It's fairly easy for the software to simply say 'No' when the rider demands more throttle than can be sustained. It can also cut fuel by using a little TC-like injector shutdown on the straights.

I think it may have been a specific choice by the team: do you decide to cut fuel below a certain level, and allow him to lose a lot of power on the final laps, and maybe a lot of places, or do you risk that he will make it to the end? If they asked Crutchlow for his preference, I believe I can guess what his answer would be.

Geonerd · Oct 17, 2012

Kropotkin said:
I think it may have been a specific choice by the team: do you decide to cut fuel below a certain level, and allow him to lose a lot of power on the final laps, and maybe a lot of places, or do you risk that he will make it to the end? If they asked Crutchlow for his preference, I believe I can guess what his answer would be.

Which is precisely why the computer needs the authority to say, "No!"

thedeal · Oct 17, 2012

Dovi ran out on the slow down lap and as Spies is the most agresive on the throttle he would have ran out to according to MCN.

Jumkie · Oct 17, 2012

I don't know the answer to why, I suppose I could speculate too. All I know is that running out of gas is stupid.

Also, its another one of many things peeps don't detect about performance and results. Quite often peeps look at this .... and conclude another, like, the rider faded, or the rider is out of shape, or the rider cant hack the pressure, when in reality, its the ....... stupid fuel limits and the computers taking over. Now, would you like to talk about tire life?

lil red rocket pilot · Oct 17, 2012

I'm not sure but having watched the replay on the last lap it seemed to be a constant orange light in the visor of Cal on the approach to the 90degree bend,

Where as on previous laps it was a flashing red for gear change?

Maybe he did have fair warning and tried to beat it?

Hey ho!

levigarrett · Oct 17, 2012

Lyria,

This is easy.

Cal couldn't keep Bautisa behind him....... got passed....... still couldn't keep up without running wide open.

So......he ran wide open instead of binning like usual (trying to keep up with Dovi), and simply ran out of fuel and was once again beaten by his teemate!

Yup, that's about all!

I dedicate this nugget of wisdom to my pal Wilski!

JohnnyKnockdown · Oct 17, 2012

Lyria

This is even easier

Because your watching a self hating sport that doesnt understand that the most important and simple part of a successfull sport is that it must be a show. The powers that be would rather a rider expire on the most exciting lap of the race because he tried too hard rather then supply them with probabaly less then a coke cans size worth of fuel.

Its a ....... joke that a bike can run out of gas in a sprint race

Jumkie · Oct 17, 2012

levigarrett said:
Lyria,

This is easy.

Cal couldn't keep Bautisa behind him....... got passed....... still couldn't keep up without running wide open.

So......he ran wide open instead of binning like usual (trying to keep up with Dovi), and simply ran out of fuel and was once again beaten by his teemate!

Yup, that's about all!

I dedicate this nugget of wisdom to my pal Wilski!

Lyria · Oct 17, 2012

Well it's not just this sport where they run out of fuel, it's happened in F1 too. I understand that you have to be careful with the fuel as every litre you have adds extra weight and so on. I can sort of see now why Cal ran out, among the various theories here

I was really enjoying the battle between them, shame it ended that way but it seems that was more to do with the track than anything as other riders were close to doing the same thing.

Like I say, I would far prefer to watch a rider going for it like Cal did than giving in and settling for a place because that is how I am myself. Saying that, if he had a warning though (as red rocket suggests) and chose to ignore it, then maybe that wasn't so smart after all. I guess I have mixed feelings about it after all.

levigarrett · Oct 17, 2012

Lyria said:
Well it's not just this sport where they run out of fuel, it's happened in F1 too. I understand that you have to be careful with the fuel as every litre you have adds extra weight and so on. I can sort of see now why Cal ran out, among the various theories here

I was really enjoying the battle between them, shame it ended that way but it seems that was more to do with the track than anything as other riders were close to doing the same thing.

Like I say, I would far prefer to watch a rider going for it like Cal did than giving in and settling for a place because that is how I am myself. Saying that, if he had a warning though (as red rocket suggests) and chose to ignore it, then maybe that wasn't so smart after all. I guess I have mixed feelings about it after all.

Perhaps you'd prefer to see him "go for it" but finishing and managing the race are every bit as important. This is a professional series. Our beloved Super Sic being the perfect example of a guy who went all out every weekend and as a result, his championship suffered. I believe that he was in the midst of learning this important lesson when he was killed. Tons of talent combined with poor racecraft.

Every weekend Lorenzo puts his bike on the finish line commensurate with the capabilities of his package at that given time. In other words, if he has a third place package, he'll finish third. Give him the best machine, and he wins. He takes only what can be taken responsibly. That's part of the reason he'll continue to win championships. He's an unparalleled professional. Uninspired (in terms of performance art), unemotional deadly consistency. It's not sexy but over the course of a long season, it's almost unbeatable. There are more interesting guys on the grid but if had to pick an employee to race my machine, he'd be the one.

Cal pushes himself and the machine beyond their collective limits routinely. He's probably more talented than Dovi but his championship performance is inferior (192 pts to 135). It's a good thing Ducati spared him from a life disturbing the pebbles.

thedeal · Oct 17, 2012

levigarrett said:
Perhaps you'd prefer to see him "go for it" but finishing and managing the race are every bit as important. This is a professional series. Our beloved Super Sic being the perfect example of a guy who went all out every weekend and as a result, his championship suffered. I believe that he was in the midst of learning this important lesson when he was killed. Tons of talent combined with poor racecraft.

Every weekend Lorenzo puts his bike on the finish line commensurate with the capabilities of his package at that given time. In other words, if he has a third place package, he'll finish third. Give him the best machine, and he wins. He takes only what can be taken responsibly. That's part of the reason he'll continue to win championships. He's an unparalleled professional. Uninspired, unemotional deadly consistency. It's not sexy but over the course of a long season, it's almost unbeatable. There are more interesting guys on the grid but if had to pick an employee to race my machine, he'd be the one.

Cal pushes himself and the machine beyond their collective limits routinely. He's probably more talented than Dovi but his championship performance is inferior (192 pts to 135). It's a good thing Ducati spared him from a life disturbing the pebbles.

Amen.

Lyria · Oct 17, 2012

I get what you're saying, I do, you have to think of the championship, ride to the limits of the bike etc. but as right as that is, don't you sometimes find that boring? I mean I was watching the F1 and I am a Vettel fan, he had the race sewn up and the team were practically begging him to slow down because the tyres were 'near the cliff' as they say, but he wanted that fastest lap time so he didn't back off. Maybe it was stupid, if he'd thrown the race away and lost the points he needed I'd have agreed, but part of me was loving that he wouldn't back off.

Yes, I know, that's not how you win a championship, you have to be more level headed and so on and so forth, you're right, I know you are, but I can't help admiirng the spirit of the guys who give it their all even if does end badly for them. I hear what is being said and in some ways I agree but it's not the most exciting racing is it?

levigarrett · Oct 17, 2012

Lyria said:
I get what you're saying, I do, you have to think of the championship, ride to the limits of the bike etc. but as right as that is, don't you sometimes find that boring? I mean I was watching the F1 and I am a Vettel fan, he had the race sewn up and the team were practically begging him to slow down because the tyres were 'near the cliff' as they say, but he wanted that fastest lap time so he didn't back off. Maybe it was stupid, if he'd thrown the race away and lost the points he needed I'd have agreed, but part of me was loving that he wouldn't back off.

Yes, I know, that's not how you win a championship, you have to be more level headed and so on and so forth, you're right, I know you are, but I can't help admiirng the spirit of the guys who give it their all even if does end badly for them. I hear what is being said and in some ways I agree but it's not the most exciting racing is it?

Indeed, but I guess that depends on what you find exciting. I'm not fovorably excited watching my rider get beaten by inferior jockey's or by watching said rider slide on his .... It will get old, I promise. You'll quickly grow tired of the repeated heartbreak.

Results are what matter. Particularly for a guy begging far ANY factory ride. He won't earn one this way. I think you'll find him competing for wins far more compelling and exciting than competing for the "best of the rest" honors.

No offense intended btw. You're new here and we have a way of chasing of the newbies if not by accident but by design, simply for sport of course....cheers!

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Lyria

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lil red rocket pilot

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