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Conspiracy GP

Joined Mar 2007
8K Posts | 2K+
Texas
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Please feel free to email Neil to let him know that he has lost his mind.
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They are using old 990 technology? That's impossible. Wait who said Rossi ran an old 990 setup because he knew the new 2008 tires were actually old technology? I think I second guessed myself in the end, but I should have stuck with the empirical observation-----it is Rossi we're talking about.

So obviously these new Bridgestones are not the best kit, or Bridgestone wouldn't have built the unstoppable 2007 spec tires. Obviously, the teams have been struggling to adapt the new bikes backwards to old tire technology.

I should have my own book.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 31 2008, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They are using old 990 technology? That's impossible. Wait who said Rossi ran an old 990 setup because he knew the new 2008 tires were actually old technology? I think I second guessed myself in the end, but I should have stuck with the empirical observation-----it is Rossi we're talking about.

So obviously these new Bridgestones are not the best kit, or Bridgestone wouldn't have built the unstoppable 2007 spec tires. Obviously, the teams have been struggling to adapt the new bikes backwards to old tire technology.

Must be nice to change directions and be able to fit your theories depending on which statement(s) your are responding to. In the "Control Tire developed for who?" thread you state: "Vale says the racing won't be closer next season. Pretty easy to make that call when you've been riding on a control tire for all of 2008" and here you seem to believe its a '06 spec tire (which by the way no one had a problem with, or conspiracy theories about, when Nicky was winning the title).

You gotta wonder why a tyre developed for a 990cc, low-or-no traction control, point and shoot beast would magically become the panacea of the full TC, "ride smooth or ride slow", 800cc parade floats.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Oct 30 2008, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Must be nice to change directions and be able to fit your theories depending on which statement(s) your are responding to. In the "Control Tire developed for who?" thread you state: "Vale says the racing won't be closer next season. Pretty easy to make that call when you've been riding on a control tire for all of 2008" and here you seem to believe its a '06 spec tire (which by the way no one had a problem with, or conspiracy theories about, when Nicky was winning the title).

You gotta wonder why a tyre developed for a 990cc, low-or-no traction control, point and shoot beast would magically become the panacea of the full TC, "ride smooth or ride slow", 800cc parade floats.

This entire thing is about Casey Stoner's tires and whether or not they have gone missing. Such a claim was so elementary in my view that I have made many other predictions and assertions. One of them was that the new tires are not new high tech material, but rather old 990 tires.

I think it is obvious to everyone now, that major changes have occurred to the tires. I think it's pretty obvious that no one at DORNA thought twice about pulling the trigger on this massive tire project b/c an Australian was world champion.

Mick, this has nothing to do with the tires in 2006. They were still prototypes back then.

Yes, it is strange that old 990 technology would become the tire development of choice for tire manufacturers. I think it's pretty obvious given Stoner's performance last year that this isn't the tire development path of choice, it is what was brokered at the end of 2007.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Oct 31 2008, 06:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Must be nice to change directions and be able to fit your theories depending on which statement(s) your are responding to. In the "Control Tire developed for who?" thread you state: "Vale says the racing won't be closer next season. Pretty easy to make that call when you've been riding on a control tire for all of 2008" and here you seem to believe its a '06 spec tire (which by the way no one had a problem with, or conspiracy theories about, when Nicky was winning the title).

You gotta wonder why a tyre developed for a 990cc, low-or-no traction control, point and shoot beast would magically become the panacea of the full TC, "ride smooth or ride slow", 800cc parade floats.
you got it mick
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 31 2008, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, it is strange that old 990 technology would become the tire development of choice for tire manufacturers. I think it's pretty obvious given Stoner's performance last year that this isn't the tire development path of choice, it is what was brokered at the end of 2007.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not but it makes perfect sense. Reverting to 2006/990cc spec tires cuts development costs dramatically as they've already been developed (which was one of Dorna's reasons). Additionally, with 990cc era tires there was less of an emphasis on edge grip because of lower corner speeds (by less of an emphasis I mean it wasn't the make or break feature of a motorcycle as it appeared to be in 2007 and possibly 2008). Thus, using a tire that was originally designed for lower cornering speeds should reduce edge grip and back up Dorna's second point in this whole debacle, safety.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 31 2008, 07:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not but it makes perfect sense. Reverting to 2006/990cc spec tires cuts development costs dramatically as they've already been developed (which was one of Dorna's reasons). Additionally, with 990cc era tires there was less of an emphasis on edge grip because of lower corner speeds (by less of an emphasis I mean it wasn't the make or break feature of a motorcycle as it appeared to be in 2007 and possibly 2008). Thus, using a tire that was originally designed for lower cornering speeds should reduce edge grip and back up Dorna's second point in this whole debacle, safety.

+ they would be easier to produce at short notice, possibly b'stone even had some left over in the warehouse. easy to obtain in limited quantities with only a month or so's notice.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Oct 31 2008, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not but it makes perfect sense. Reverting to 2006/990cc spec tires cuts development costs dramatically as they've already been developed (which was one of Dorna's reasons). Additionally, with 990cc era tires there was less of an emphasis on edge grip because of lower corner speeds (by less of an emphasis I mean it wasn't the make or break feature of a motorcycle as it appeared to be in 2007 and possibly 2008). Thus, using a tire that was originally designed for lower cornering speeds should reduce edge grip and back up Dorna's second point in this whole debacle, safety.

Yes, I was being sarcastic.
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The above is exactly why the reemergence of 990 technology makes perfect sense. Thanks for articulating better than I can.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 1 2008, 02:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not but it makes perfect sense. Reverting to 2006/990cc spec tires cuts development costs dramatically as they've already been developed (which was one of Dorna's reasons). Additionally, with 990cc era tires there was less of an emphasis on edge grip because of lower corner speeds (by less of an emphasis I mean it wasn't the make or break feature of a motorcycle as it appeared to be in 2007 and possibly 2008). Thus, using a tire that was originally designed for lower cornering speeds should reduce edge grip and back up Dorna's second point in this whole debacle, safety.

Yes, Austin seems to have grasped the point that no one else wanted to or felt like they needed to. The absolute bottom line is: THERE WILL BE ONE TYRE MAUNFACTURER AND ONE TYRE CARCASS COMPOUND! Deal with it Honda (you are doin' fine), Kawasaki, and Suzuki (you suck ..... unless you actually step-up and make an effort) and any other manufacturer/team that wants to race in MGP. The days of a competitive KR/KRJ team are over, just like satellite teams have been rendered redundant in F!. Its not a fan's ideal situation, but NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU ..... & 'N' WHINE (JUM, LEX, & THE REST [The Professor, Ginger & Mary-Anne by chance...]) we are not returning to the "golden years".

While i was typin' that I realized that them most irksome thing about this forum is the thing I like most about it... Maybe LEX could use his laser-like BS detector to move MGP forward instead of dwelling in the past whence the riders/teams/manufacturers become the target(s) of ridicule rather than the recipients of positive advise/consultation. We know its fun, (and easy), 4 u to dis what's going on (criticism is the LOWEST form of communication) but maybe you would be better served to turn your (obviously) powerful intellect into suggesting new paths for the FUTURE development of MGP. Taking the piss outta ..... is really easy - making positive, rational, coherent suggestions for the benefit of the future of the sport is beyond your capacity LEX, nes pas?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Oct 31 2008, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, Austin seems to have grasped the point that no one else wanted to or felt like they needed to. The absolute bottom line is: THERE WILL BE ONE TYRE MAUNFACTURER AND ONE TYRE CARCASS COMPOUND! Deal with it Honda (you are doin' fine), Kawasaki, and Suzuki (you suck ..... unless you actually step-up and make an effort) and any other manufacturer/team that wants to race in MGP. The days of a competitive KR/KRJ team are over, just like satellite teams have been rendered redundant in F!. Its not a fan's ideal situation, but NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU ..... & 'N' WHINE (JUM, LEX, & THE REST [The Professor, Ginger & Mary-Anne by chance...]) we are not returning to the "golden years".

While i was typin' that I realized that them most irksome thing about this forum is the thing I like most about it... Maybe LEX could use his laser-like BS detector to move MGP forward instead of dwelling in the past whence the riders/teams/manufacturers become the target(s) of ridicule rather than the recipients of positive advise/consultation. We know its fun, (and easy), 4 u to dis what's going on (criticism is the LOWEST form of communication) but maybe you would be better served to turn your (obviously) powerful intellect into suggesting new paths for the FUTURE development of MGP. Taking the piss outta ..... is really easy - making positive, rational, coherent suggestions for the benefit of the future of the sport is beyond your capacity LEX, nes pas?

My only criticism is that DORNA haven't been forthright, and I think there is reason to believe Ezy was intentionally ignorant of the defending champ's right to defend.

I'm not suggesting the sport is broken. I've wanted a control tire for a long time, but I also want transparency for the fans.

If you see this season for what it really is, it causes you to view the results differently. Everyone was given the same tires at round 2. They probably spent a few rounds tweaking the compounds the teams were allowed to use, then it was no holds bar development. Big teams with good riders did the business. Rossi Burgess proved that they are still the best at bike development. This season is actually more akin to his win in 2004 than anything else.

At the same time we have to acknowledge that this season has little to do with last season b/c the crucial component that controls all bike performance was changed significantly at an emergency meeting at the end of last year.

The above is much different than the scenarios envisioned at the beginning of the year. Back then people subscribed to one of 2 arguments:

1. Rossi is a cheating ....... who used his power to snipe the best equipment
2. Rossi is still an unbeatable motorcycle god who has been screwed by Michelin

See. It's not about criticism.

For the record I have made suggestions for improvement. The control tire was one of them. I also think they need a top speed limit and I think they need unlimited capacity and fuel. Put expiration dates on new legislation so it can be adjusted over time.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Nov 1 2008, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My only criticism is that DORNA haven't been forthright, and I think there is reason to believe Ezy was intentionally ignorant of the defending champ's right to defend.

<span style="color:#000000You're right there!!

I'm not suggesting the sport is broken. I've wanted a control tire for a long time, but I also want transparency for the fans.

<span style="color:#000000Control tyre is not the issue. A randomly distributed control tyre IS.

If you see this season for what it really is, it causes you to view the results differently. Everyone was given the same tires at round 2. They probably spent a few rounds tweaking the compounds the teams were allowed to use, then it was no holds bar development. Big teams with good riders did the business. Rossi Burgess proved that they are still the best at bike development. This season is actually more akin to his win in 2004 than anything else.

At the same time we have to acknowledge that this season has little to do with last season b/c the crucial component that controls all bike performance was changed significantly at an emergency meeting at the end of last year.

The above is much different than the scenarios envisioned at the beginning of the year. Back then people subscribed to one of 2 arguments:

1. Rossi is a cheating ....... who used his power to snipe the best equipment
2. Rossi is still an unbeatable motorcycle god who deserves whatever he can get his hands on

<span style="color:#000000Actually those are not arguments, they are opposite sides of the same coin...

See. It's not about criticism.

For the record I have made suggestions for improvement. The control tire was one of them. I also think they need a top speed limit and I think they need unlimited capacity and fuel. Put expiration dates on new legislation so it can be adjusted over time.

Are you using crack as we speak? A TOP SPEED LIMIT? In what circumstance do you envision the elite class of motorcycling needing a TOP SPEED LIMIT?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Oct 31 2008, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>+ they would be easier to produce at short notice, possibly b'stone even had some left over in the warehouse. easy to obtain in limited quantities with only a month or so's notice.
God that had me laughing so hard I fell off my chair. Do you not know ANYTHING about rubber? Apparently not.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Nov 1 2008, 05:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>God that had me laughing so hard I fell off my chair. Do you not know ANYTHING about rubber? Apparently not.

Elaborate...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Oct 31 2008, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Elaborate...

i was going to say that too!

i guess i will have to use "enlighten me" then...
 
tires or tyres, dry out over time. This makes them loose their "stickyness" as they get brittle. Go to a classic car museum and check out the tyres on old cars, they have tread, but if original will be full of cracks.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baturro @ Oct 31 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>tires or tyres, dry out over time. This makes them loose their "stickyness" as they get brittle. Go to a classic car museum and check out the tyres on old cars, they have tread, but if original will be full of cracks.
vast difference between vintage vulcanised natural rubber compounds found on old cars and new, state of the art man-made compounds that will be only 2 years old.

and why would i want to look at old cars anyway?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baturro @ Nov 1 2008, 06:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>tires or tyres, dry out over time. This makes them loose their "stickyness" as they get brittle. Go to a classic car museum and check out the tyres on old cars, they have tread, but if original will be full of cracks.

Uh, yeah, I know that but I've mothballed my track bike for the better part of a year, with rubber on, then prepped and ridden without issues with the year old rubber. 5 - 10 - 15 YEARS for CAGE RUBBER is a different animal altogether mister baturro!!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Oct 31 2008, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Uh, yeah, I know that but I've mothballed my track bike for the better part of a year, with rubber on, then prepped and ridden without issues with the year old rubber.On one hand that's true, but on the other hand these are rather special, exotic tires pushed a long way. Minor degredation matters more, and they may be more prone to degrading rapidly as well.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Oct 31 2008, 10:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>God that had me laughing so hard I fell off my chair. Do you not know ANYTHING about rubber? Apparently not.
i know the rubber i had in my wallet expired before i got to use it
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Nov 1 2008, 06:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i know the rubber i had in my wallet expired before i got to use it
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Rog, if the senoritas are lookin' at your personal pic I know why!!!!!!
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