Congratulations, Binder!

povol · Sep 29, 2016

Gaz said:
You could also add Max Biaggi - 4 x 250cc titles from 7 attempts as an example of staying in the lower classes first as well as Jorge Martinez and Carlo Ubbiali as people who chose not to 'graduate' and yet had very successful careers (just throwing some more onto the fire for you Arrib)

It may just be me but I do miss the tiddler classes of years back as whilst we can say that Moto3/Moto2 are the current, the past classes provided some sensational racing and brilliant riders.

You guys are missing the part about a rider being "special" Biaggi was not special in GP. If you spend 5 years in the lowest class looking for your first top 5 in that series, in my book, you are not special. I dont think Binder is special. If some of you wish to believe he is, that is your choice. Time will tell. Lets revisit this thread in 5 years and see if he is competing for championships in GP

povol · Sep 29, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
I'm quite aware of how long Casey spent in 125 and 250. However, you didn't say that did you? - you originally said this...

Added to the fact that Casey was 21 when he moved up. Your point about Binder?

Similarly, I am more than aware of Nieto's decision to remain in the lower classes by choice. I wonder what the Povol verdict would have been after four - five years though?

Quite frankly Pov, your talent scouting formula is a pile of cack and you're making it up as you go along.

Is Moto3 not considered a lower class anymore, maybe i missed something.

Casey moved to GP at 21, not 250's, whats your point

AJV80 · Sep 29, 2016

yamfan said:
....... is a great lad and eminently likeable, I really hope he does come good. It's going to have to be soon though as there's quite a crop of talented younger riders just dying for a chance at the big time. The teams recognise this and lately seem more inclined to take a punt on them to see if they're the real deal. Maybe Marquez and Maverick's performance have brought this even more to the forefront when they're choosing their riders each year or so.

Agree with ......., he is good value. I think he is so keen for a seat with Reposl that he has started his own unique spanglish language during interviews to help his chances of coming onboard the Spanish armada. Its funny seeing him talk like a regular Aussie at PI and all the way to Jerez, then doing an interview at Aragon and needing subtitles to understand him.

I'm really hoping it all goes well for him.

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 30, 2016

povol said:
I dont think Binder is special. If some of you wish to believe he is, that is your choice. Time will tell. Lets revisit this thread in 5 years and see if he is competing for championships in GP

Again, I don't think that anyone is suggesting that he will be competing for championships in MotoGP - I really don't think that he'll ever receive the necessary backing. However, the point that I myself and others are making is that he appears to have the necessary qualities and attributes which one would look for in a Moto GP rider.

Gaz · Sep 30, 2016

Iamapony said:
Honda experiment by pushing jack too fast, but they held Marquez back another year, even though he was the fastest thing in Moto2.

Which strategy has worked better? Jack is getting hurt and is wasting a potentially good career trying to race a very fast bike before he learned how to ride any fast bike. Meanwhile, Marc could beat all sorts of records in the next decade.

All true but one also needs to look at the environment surrounding the two riders whom you are comparing.

Marc Marquez has/was annointed as the next big thing very early in the piece (similar to Rossi) which automatically opened a myriad of doors to equipment and people to assist his development and career. Miller on the other hand was not annointed but rather recognised for what he achieved on a sub-par Honda and it is this which opened doors, but it did not bring with it the support services that have surrounded Marquez (Gabbarini aside) and as such has found himself on customer supported equipment rather than factory.

IMO only but Miller is not Marquez and never will be as Marquez is one of those talents that come along all so rarely, but Miller is the good honest hard working and talented toiler in the lines of Hayden (although I do think that Miller is more precociously talented than Hayden which is not to disrespect Hayden)

Gaz · Sep 30, 2016

povol said:
You guys are missing the part about a rider being "special" Biaggi was not special in GP. If you spend 5 years in the lowest class looking for your first top 5 in that series, in my book, you are not special. I dont think Binder is special. If some of you wish to believe he is, that is your choice. Time will tell. Lets revisit this thread in 5 years and see if he is competing for championships in GP

4 250cc titles in Motorcycle Grands Prix are pretty damn special in my book.

Then to come up to the 500cc class and in your very first race beat a rider of Mick Doohan's ability is further evidence for me that he is/was special (Biaggi contended for a number of 500cc/MotoGP titles)

Of course, each their own in terms of their own definition of special but (IMO only here) Biaggi was special, but he is and was a two-stroke rider who was quite negated within the four stroke era (I also put McCoy in this category but nowhere near the level of a biaggi)

AJV80 · Sep 30, 2016

Gaz said:
4 250cc titles in Motorcycle Grands Prix are pretty damn special in my book.

Then to come up to the 500cc class and in your very first race beat a rider of Mick Doohan's ability is further evidence for me that he is/was special (Biaggi contended for a number of 500cc/MotoGP titles)

Of course, each their own in terms of their own definition of special but (IMO only here) Biaggi was special, but he is and was a two-stroke rider who was quite negated within the four stroke era (I also put McCoy in this category but nowhere near the level of a biaggi)

It was awesome seeing Mccoy power slide his way around the track, he did have a lot of offs and injuries though.

Iamapony · Sep 30, 2016

AJV80 said:
To be fair I think Marc is a much more naturally talented rider/racer to Miller. I also think that they have the intermediate Moto2 class for a reason.

p4p1 said:
Jack Miller has had a bad season it's got nothing to do with skipping moto2, he's already spent a year in GP outriding a former world champ on the same equipment. If it was his first season maybe you could argue it's because he skipped moto2 but it isn't.

Good discussion, here. It seems Moto3 talk is more civilized.

You are making my point p4p1. Putting him directly into MotoGP was a mistake. He got hurt, and was slow as mud. Too big of a jump, these days. He has to be better than several MotoGP riders that went through all three classes, but he isn't doing as well. Just one year in Moto2, and I think he would be in better shape.

povol · Sep 30, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
Again, I don't think that anyone is suggesting that he will be competing for championships in MotoGP - I really don't think that he'll ever receive the necessary backing. However, the point that I myself and others are making is that he appears to have the necessary qualities and attributes which one would look for in a Moto GP rider.

conversation was if Binder was special
I agree he may be a GP rider someday and just as easily may not. This entire conversation was if Binder was special and i said he wasnt and you took the torch for the he is special side. If he is special, he will get backing.

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 30, 2016

povol said:
conversation was if Binder was special
I agree he may be a GP rider someday and just as easily may not. This entire conversation was if Binder was special and i said he wasnt and you took the torch for the he is special side. If he is special, he will get backing.

I didn't take any 'side' and I don't believe I used the word 'special'. Refer to post 17.

markbdaniels · Oct 16, 2016

povol said:
If some of you wish to believe he is, that is your choice. Time will tell. Lets revisit this thread in 5 years and see if he is competing for championships in GP

I set a reminder for 5 year time

Dr No · Oct 17, 2016

I am confused.
Is Binder not competing in GPs?
Someone should tell him.

danski · Nov 13, 2016

Either BB is special or the rest of the Moto 3 class are spectacularly crap.

Arrabbiata1 · Nov 13, 2016

Although significantly, the injuries of Navarro and Bastianini and the sacking of Fenny meant that there were fewer rivals to take points off him, Binder now has the record for accruing the largest points margin of any previous WC victory in the feeder classes. What impresses me is his composure - his race brain/race craft and his self belief. I agree with the point that Povol made about his age, but I still maintain that he appears to have both the fortitude, finesse and the guile that you need to ride a MotoGP bike. Whether he is able to bag a competitive ride is the main doubt as opposed to any aspersions cast over his natural talent.

Theo · Nov 13, 2016

AJV80 said:
Agree with ......., he is good value. I think he is so keen for a seat with Reposl that he has started his own unique spanglish language during interviews to help his chances of coming onboard the Spanish armada. Its funny seeing him talk like a regular Aussie at PI and all the way to Jerez, then doing an interview at Aragon and needing subtitles to understand him.

I'm really hoping it all goes well for him.

He reminds me of Gibernau and what happened to him?

Arrabbiata1 · Nov 13, 2016

Theo said:
He reminds me of Gibernau and what happened to him?

Despite his supposed mental fragility, 8 GP victories, runner up two years running?

Can't see Jack managing that.

AJV80 · Nov 13, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
Despite his supposed mental fragility, 8 GP victories, runner up two years running?

Can't see Jack managing that.

As much as I'd like to see Jack succeed I don't think he will. Even if he has a great 2017 season I don't know what factory bikes will be available to him. Moto2 may be a purgatory for many riders but If he was able to do well in the Moto2 series he may have been offered a better ride in MotoGP. I think him being on the VDS bike wont aid him to be a strong enough performer to get noticed by the factory teams and he will remain a rider who stays on Satellite bikes and lives in the back half of the field.

ImpossibleAstronaut · Oct 3, 2021

povol said:
You guys are missing the part about a rider being "special" Biaggi was not special in GP. If you spend 5 years in the lowest class looking for your first top 5 in that series, in my book, you are not special. I dont think Binder is special. If some of you wish to believe he is, that is your choice. Time will tell. Lets revisit this thread in 5 years and see if he is competing for championships in GP

5 years have past... How are you all feeling about Binder?

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Congratulations, Binder!

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