COMPARISON, SIMO TO.......

2006 - MotoGP - Honda LCR (Michelin)

Casey Stoner (1 podium, 1 pole, 119 points, 8th position, 6 dnf's, 1 dns



2008-MotoGP-Yamaha M1



Jorge Lorenzo (6 podium, 4 pole,1 win,190 points, 4th position, 4 dnf's, 1 dns



2010



Marco Simoncelli (0 podium, 0 pole, 0 win 125 points, 8th position,,2 dnf's





I don't see he's that much different to the other two........Taking a little bit longer to learn.........but hey, everyones different.



Going by DNF's and DNS's.......he has been more consistant,.........and (shock horror) maybe less reckless the the two Proffesors !!!!





Falls away in the podium/wins bit, but is that down to a more cautious approach in his first year ?............points are similar (consistant/not falling off as much ?)



And now he is going for it.....he's suffering a bit. Alot of people jump to the "Poor/inadiquate machine" defence for the two luminaries, but obstinately refuse to cut Hair Bear the same slack, despite the glaring fact.......he's still on a satellite bike/team !!!!



Where's his team-mate ?



Even Ol' man Edwards can finish in the same area as his new hot shot team-mates ( by hot shot, I am implying that they have a point to prove/future to secure.....Edwards seems happy to just ride and race.....and according to his wife, think about ... alot,........seems settled enough to know his place in the world, and it ain't to bad. He's less of a waste of time than Barros or Caparossi at a similar age, and far more consistant. But hey, lets all kick him 'cause he ain't won a race or the like)



............ By their second seasons Stoner moved to the (at that point) competitive Duck (hey......even Capparossi could do things on it that year, and the previous one)



Good ol Hee-Haw had a much improved M1 ( thanks to JB and Rossi's efforts), some decent settings to copy and someone, who didn't fall off much, to follow.



Lets just watch and enjoy his progress.



Two Proffesors sniping him for riding the same way they did, and one little robot crying 'cause Simo mucked up his second attempt at a passing move he'd already tried and failed at with Hayden, shouldn't influence what, from our experience from years of viewing Moto, and statistics show us, we know to be true.



He's not going that badly. He's a bit wild, sure..........but two boofheads ( I am refering only to personalities) and the media's inept and obvious arse kissing there-of ( Oh yes my Lords, what indisputable truth do you have for us today) calling him "dangerous" is just laughable.



It's not they the first, or the only, ones to do this.......but they carry it off far less convicingly than their predecessors.



If he's dangerous, then by their own first seasons statistics, they were bloody suicidal, and lucky they didn't kill anyone.



We know this is not the case however. They were young, exiting, and riding their brains out.



Now who does that sound like .......???



Me thinks they're scared of what life will be like for them if he gets it together, and is on a decent (factory) bike.





I've built me cross...............now...........time for you lot to nail me to it !!

These snapshots are perfectly useless, except to have something to argue about, and that is, comparing apples with oranges,



2006 - Stoner gets the lowest budget bike in the field with the crappiest tyres. His change to a factory bike in 2007 and the bridgestones caused an uproar. His first ever ride on a factory bike was 2007.



2008 - Lorenzo on a factory bike with the tried and proven control tyre - bike developed by JB



2010 - Simo on a well supported bike with the control tyre. He is on a factory bike this year.



All of them are amazing riders and Simo reminds me a lot of Stoner, who was a win or bin it rider on the LCR. Lorenzo is a little more calculated, however he went through a win it or bin it stage.



I have concluded therefore that ice creams don't grow bones in winter.

Fred Gassit said:

I've built me cross...............now...........time for you lot to nail me to it !!

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Yes, it was a rather large bow, made of feeble components.





I do agree with you completely.



I am just trying to find a way for people to accept that Marco isn't all that bad, or different, from the people who are slinging mud at him.



Time will tell.



Why I feel this is important is probably every bit as irrelevant and feeble as comparing apples to oranges.





It is not my intent to prove Simo is better than anyone.........only that if he gets it together, he will be right there.



And bloody hell, it will be a great thing to watch. ( all three, not just Simo)



As 'Factory" as his bike is, it isn't the Repsol machine. Not saying Stoner is only doing what he is because of the bike.........however am saying, I believe Simo is faster than Dovi............and Pedrobot.



especially if he keeps the black bits of the machine on the ground.





And if he manages to renew his battles with Lorenzo, and give him a real bad case of the iggots...........I would think thats great.



Stoner may moan............but damn , am I sick of Lorenzo giving his expert opinion on everybloody thing GP (after only three years ?), and especially that stupid flag ................so if one of the riders he used to get annoyed at, and mouth off about from the 250 days manages to get up there and .... him off......... Yay from me.



I think on current speed, that is Simo............but as stated, only if he stays upright till the end of a race.



If all three of the riders he hates ( and who don't have the time of day for him) manage to get up and hassle the crap out of him ( by that, I mean be competitive and race with, or beat, him) bloody tops !!.....even better.







On a superficial level that lowers me into the realms of the "unwashed masses"...........



............I am constantly amazed at how Simo gets all that hair into the helmet !!!



Does his helmet even have a lining ?...........or is the hair a SNELL approved impact absorbent material ?





And the reason I like the hair is, rather than some sort of clown act at the end of a race, the hair actually seems more in line with the ephemeral description of a motorcyclist not giving a .... what anyone thinks about their appearence.



Unlike a lot of the sqeaky clean, corperate types that inhabit our sport now.



Yes, I know how the big machine works, and the sort of things they have to comply with, despite how they may feel.......



I think it's just good to see a bit of rebellion that doesn't rely on a circus act at the end.





......now, what about a set of black leathers , with just a snazzy stripe down one side ?







Go Marco.......don't let the others grind you down.

Put simply there is absolutely no comparison between Stoner and Lorenzo and Simo.



Stoner and Lorenzo have incurred the wrath of the italian media and the boppers since day one Simo is being over hyped by them.



Performance wise ........ Stoner and Lorenzo similar to each other



Simo not of their class yet. How did he compare when they were all in the same class before?

Fred Gassit said:

I do agree with you completely.



I am just trying to find a way for people to accept that Marco isn't all that bad, or different, from the people who are slinging mud at him.



Time will tell.

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I doubt people think he is 'bad' in terms of being a 'poor' rider/racer as that would be a ludicrous assumption given the sheer speed he has displayed for a number of years now, but that is you mean bad in performance terms.



However, if by 'bad' you mean a bit of a 'loose cannon' that is to me a different proposition as he does have baggage to support that he may not be the most 'ethically clean' racer (probably a bad choice of words on my part there).



But, for me he still is making mistakes on a far to frequent basis than did and do the others you use for comparison as in 2007 (from memory only) Stoner did not have a race crash and only a small number of practice crashes. By comparison in his second year, Lorenzo had also greatly reduced his crash rate across all the weekend. However, year to date one could well assert that Simoncelli is actually as bad if not worse in 2011 than at the same period of his rookie season which if agreeable does or should be the cause of some concern.



The saving grace for Simoncelli may well be that it is hist first year on a full factory bike and as such there would be a level of adaptation (Stoner an anomoly perhaps?) and it is still early days so he can well regain composure and better his 2010 performance (as I fully expect). Additionally for Simoncelli, he has been unfortunate enough to fall twice in races with conditions being wet and as we know this is quite easily done and will occur to the best riders around so allowances should be made there (IMO).



For my way of thinking, he should now simply ride for a top 5 position only as he will then learn more about the bike and regain confidence which will lead to far higher finishes as he is talented enough skills wise, his mental approach is still to be shown.











Gaz

I can't be axed trying to copy the tables at the mo' but Casey and Marco are very similar in 250's........marco at it 4 years to casey's 2.........Casey a 12th, back to 125's for 2 years with an 8th and a 5th, then back to 250's for a 2nd. Surprisingly, his 5th in 125's was on the KTM



Marco on 250's for four years straight on Gilera , two 10th's, a 1st and a 3rd.



Lorenzo, well.....we all know that score in 250's..3 years straight on them....5th on the Honda, then two 1st's for Aprillia.



The Gilera was probably the equivelant of Stoners RS Aprillia in performance to the rest of the field during the first two years for Hair bear, but then it became quite a decent thing to be on, much like the RSA Aprillia Stoner had for his second place. In as much as you can compare machinery over different years.......I am only refering to the mentioned riders machinery at the time, in comparison to what their rivals were on at that point.



Seems AndyRoo was very astute when he said Simo reminds him alot of Stoner.



Lorenzo's Aprillia was the machine for the 1st of his championships, then Gillera started to catch up significantly,...........his second was quite an acheivement over the odds.



Sorry Gaz, you replied before I got this up.......just read your post......good points.



I didn't mean bad in either of the ways you mentioned though.........more refering to the media circus generated by the other two.



Yep........baggage alright, but as far as the incidents that he is being hammered over now...........I don't see them as malicious, dangerous or whatever.



Pedrosa was silly for trying that move on (IMO).......and Lorenzo's accusation is a joke.......nothing more, nothing less.



Still, his baggage doesn't help his ( probably somewhat justified) innocent claims now.



As for the wet. Yep.

Fred Gassit said:

Seems AndyRoo was very astute when he said Simo reminds him alot of Stoner.

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I would agree with the appearance of drive and motivation however their styles are very different, matter of fact SImo has a very distinct style which seems very governed by his shear physical size.



Being big his movement on the bike seems often subtle and wary compared to what the little guys can exhibit eg. Pedrosa .... at times he seems to have his face on the inside peg to get enough weight distributed over that side.

Andy Roo said:

2008 - Lorenzo on a factory bike with the tried and proven control tyre -

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That isn't true, he was on the unfavoured michelins

Fred Gassit said:

I can't be axed trying to copy the tables at the mo' but Casey and Marco are very similar in 250's........marco at it 4 years to casey's 2.........Casey a 12th, back to 125's for 2 years with an 8th and a 5th, then back to 250's for a 2nd. Surprisingly, his 5th in 125's was on the KTM



Marco on 250's for four years straight on Gilera , two 10th's, a 1st and a 3rd.



Lorenzo, well.....we all know that score in 250's..3 years straight on them....5th on the Honda, then two 1st's for Aprillia.



The Gilera was probably the equivelant of Stoners RS Aprillia in performance to the rest of the field during the first two years for Hair bear, but then it became quite a decent thing to be on, much like the RSA Aprillia Stoner had for his second place. In as much as you can compare machinery over different years.......I am only refering to the mentioned riders machinery at the time, in comparison to what their rivals were on at that point.



Seems AndyRoo was very astute when he said Simo reminds him alot of Stoner.



Lorenzo's Aprillia was the machine for the 1st of his championships, then Gillera started to catch up significantly,...........his second was quite an acheivement over the odds.



Sorry Gaz, you replied before I got this up.......just read your post......good points.



I didn't mean bad in either of the ways you mentioned though.........more refering to the media circus generated by the other two.



Yep........baggage alright, but as far as the incidents that he is being hammered over now...........I don't see them as malicious, dangerous or whatever.



Pedrosa was silly for trying that move on (IMO).......and Lorenzo's accusation is a joke.......nothing more, nothing less.



Still, his baggage doesn't help his ( probably somewhat justified) innocent claims now.



As for the wet. Yep.

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Pedrosa beat stoner, both pedrosa and stoner beat lorenzo, equipment varied, as did level of experience when contemporaneous, the latter presumably particularly important so early in the various careers. This is why whilst titles in the junior classes are obviously great achievements in themselves I don't see that they have much relevance in general once riders make the premier class.

Fred Gassit said:

Surprisingly, his 5th in 125's was on the KTM

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You might be surprised to find that out, but it was only a few years ago so not too hard for most of us to remember. Back then KTM were on the up in GP and their 125 was a respectable bike. They nearly won the title the following season, perhaps an early example of Casey's value as a development rider.

The Gilera was probably the equivelant of Stoners RS Aprillia in performance to the rest of the field during the first two years for Hair bear, but then it became quite a decent thing to be on,

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The Gilera was identical to the Aprilia, they are the same bike. Marco was on an RS spec machine until the German GP half way through 2008 (his title season). Only then did he get onto the RSA, which he remained on until he left for motogp.

Lorenzo's Aprillia was the machine for the 1st of his championships, then Gillera started to catch up significantly,...........his second was quite an acheivement over the odds.

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Not sure you were paying attention, neither Gilera rider (both on RS spec bikes) featured significantly in either of Lorenzo's championships he actually beat Doviziozo (riding a Honda) both times. Lorenzo's 2nd title was far more comfortable than his first, not an over the odds acheivement but a domination by the best team and the best rider together in the paddock.

michaelm said:

Pedrosa beat stoner, both pedrosa and stoner beat lorenzo, equipment varied, as did level of experience when contemporaneous, the latter presumably particularly important so early in the various careers. This is why whilst titles in the junior classes are obviously great achievements in themselves I don't see that they have much relevance in general once riders make the premier class.

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I think titles in junior classes are relevant in the sense that they show a rider has the class, speed and brains to win a championship at international GP level, but i i agree they are not especially relevant with regards to the riders they beat. Dani was better on a 250 than Stoner but the things that made that so very likely don't apply anymore, and we now know that both have that class, speed and brains that i mentioned

I meant surprising, as in I thought he would have placed higher.



You're right...........Lorenzo gets right up my nose, didn't watch much of it......or pay attention. ...to my detriment.

( Ireally can't stand watching him that much !!!..........sure, he can ride.........but what a tosser !!!!!!........childish, I know.........)





Agree with the relevancy of the minor classes, and how people did in them. It compares directly, or else why are the front running riders former 125/250 champs ( or high placers in those championships) and the super-bike blokes are not ??.



It's not lack of talent........it's lack of experience.



They do learn race craft in superbikes as well, but a superbike is a completely different kettle of fish compared to a GP machine of any engine capacity, in as far as adjustments that can be made, and how they have to be ridden..........four stroke or not.

I don't get you Fred. You go out of your way to say you are not specifically a Rossi fan and yet I notice you seem to dislike and ...... have bad things to say, about all the same things the Boppers do, ie. you love Simo and you hate Lorenzo and Stoner .......... I think you need to come out of the closet

simo is making his way onto my fav rider list hes a amazing rider just needs to get his act together.



hes a tall guy and can knock out some serious times, imagine if he was dani's size he would be so much quicker than any other rider.

I'm of the same opinion as Jazzcat, Bazza.....I just waffle on more.





Look, I take it as I see it.



Rossi has the same ( if not more in his day) ability as these two.......is no angel when it comes to the mind games ect..........just carries it off with more decorum is all.

jazkat said:

simo is making his way onto my fav rider list hes a amazing rider just needs to get his act together.



hes a tall guy and can knock out some serious times, imagine if he was dani's size

he would be so much quicker than any other rider.

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why?

Aero.........

So is it just the straights that matter





Not going there its an idiotic argument. it always comes down to the big guys have the corners and traction and the little guys have the acceleration if they can get traction ........... and there is no conclusive evidence on any of it.



Just more Bopper crap and clutching straws.

BarryMachine said:

So is it just the straights that matter

Not going there its an idiotic argument. it always comes down to the big guys have the corners and traction and the little guys have the acceleration if they can get traction ........... and there is no conclusive evidence on any of it.



Just more Bopper crap and clutching straws.

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omg your so stupid you just take the bait i was clearly taking the piss..... i just wanted to see you start flapping.... cos no one is allowed to be faster than casey rite?



this just brings out the real you.... hahahaa you cant call anyone a bopper as your the biggest boner on the net

I don't care to compare Hairball with any of the above - again too many variables but to say I like his riding, he fasssst and once matures he'll be up there as long as he hasn't busted his body before the time comes good luck to him and look forward to the progress.

jazkat said:

omg your so stupid you just take the bait i was clearly taking the piss..... i just wanted to see you start flapping.... cos no one is allowed to be faster than casey rite?



this just brings out the real you.... hahahaa you cant call anyone a bopper as your the biggest boner on the net

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Wow spatty !!! all I asked was Why do you feel its better for tiny riders ? and you feed me a load of mumbo saying bugger all