Joined Mar 2007
2K Posts | 0+
Alpha Setti 5
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Aug 15 2009, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>only 4 engines left. for Kallio/Stoner.?
Is it per ride or rider? Where's the rule written down? I feel a loophole coming...
O dear, Kallio holding George up on a pointless lap.
Is it per ride or rider? Where's the rule written down? I feel a loophole coming...
O dear, Kallio holding George up on a pointless lap.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Aug 15 2009, 08:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What's happening to D-Poon? He's sucking big time this weekend.
Broken foot
Broken foot
Joined Feb 2007
6K Posts | 58+
Rovrum S,Yorks Eng
not sure on how many engines they used up to now over the season.
the security seal is prob the key.now if Duc & Yam have to break the security seal the check Kallio n Rossi's engines out.that will be classed as 1 of the 5 engines used.
some long winded crap and what 2010 has to come.some stuff that will/has been implamented.
.
.
.
2009: Engine Controls
The Rule: Only five engines may be used per rider from Brno to the end of the season. That is eight races. Given the riders have two bikes (and two engines) each, and some riders choose to switch between the two through free practice until they find a feel for one of them, it’s not quite as straighforward as may be imagined at first. An engine is deemed to be used when it exits the pit lane, so any time a new engine is out on track it counts as used. Reliability, then, will be the key in addition to performance.
Effects: The proposal is to dock 10 points from a rider (and presumably, from the manufacturer and the team) every time an additional engine over the allocation is required by a rider. This targets the points a rider has accumulated, and is a severe penalty which could easily be a championship decider. We are also likely to see negative points totals in the championship as some of the back-of-the-grid strugglers get penalised without having accumulated more than 10 points.
The alternative to the point-dock is to follow the F1 route and penalise the rider in the next race by docking time or grid positions from the rider after qualification. MotoGPBlog prefers this, as it disadvantages the rider if he is at the front of the field and encourages action through the race as the rider fights to recover position.
Removing points that the rider has earned in other races is a poor decision. These points should be sacrosanct and not negotiable, after all they recognise the effort and risk the rider and his team has put in to achieve the results. Docking points in this way devalues this equation and will potentially upset the balance of the championship. Who wants to see a World Champion decided by point deductions? A big Thumbs Down on this one.
2010 Engine Controls and Motorcycle Restrictions
The Rule: Six engines allowed for the whole Championship. Only one motorcycle per rider.
Effects: While we may not see too many effects in 2009, in 2010 this rule really kicks in and it is inevitable that rider placings in the Championship will be affected. It will reduce costs for factory and satellite teams alike, and will probably result in some additional work (and cost) to improve reliability. We may see teams “turning down” engine performance in races, or for the whole season, slowing down the bikes in order to make engines last longer. The rev limit rules which were floated in 2008 are now redundant - why bother? The manufacturers will impose their own rev limits to make sure the bikes run on. Thumbs Up, even though this means effectively this is not a prototype series any more. But then, when we lost the tyre wars that went out of the window.
2009 No Friday Morning Practice
The Rule: The Friday Morning practice session is removed. Friday afternoon will still happen.
Effects: Used to trial early settings for the race and to shake down the bikes after the transport, the session will not be too badly missed. Rossi can have a lie in while Stoner can do another 20K on his mountain bike. A sesible move, though it probably will not save a huge amount of cash. Thumbs Up.
2010 No Friday Practice at all (proposed)
The Rule: Race weekends will effectively start their action on a Saturday, and Friday will be used for “promotional purposes”. More of those awful, staged videos of hung-over and bored riders enjoying local culture or cusine will be coming our way.
Effects: Friday afternoon is generally used to get a race set-up settled on the bike, leaving Saturday free for qualification preparations. This could compromise the rider’s set-up for the race, but along with the tyre changes (and lack of a pure qualification tyre) they have little else to do on a Saturday. There will be grumbles from some riders, and probabaly some from event organisers losing out on an additional day’s revenue, but again, fairly sensible from Dorna. Thumbs Up.
2010 Only 5 People in the Garage Allowed to Touch the Bike
The Rule: Essentially, 5 engineers are allowed. The wording of the rule is designed to negate the idea of giving a sixth mechanic the title of “Team PR Exec” and having them get their hands dirty on the bike. Limits the personnel working on the bike.
Effects: Saves the teams some money in wages and airfare. Could possibly compromise reliability (see Engine Controls), but although the mechanics will be forced to be less specilised, you can bet they will be well drilled by the manufacturers. Any effects will, therefore be secondary, and only seen (and penalised) via the Engine Reliability rulings. Thumbs Up. Fewer drunk mechanics on a Sunday night can only be a good thing.
the security seal is prob the key.now if Duc & Yam have to break the security seal the check Kallio n Rossi's engines out.that will be classed as 1 of the 5 engines used.
some long winded crap and what 2010 has to come.some stuff that will/has been implamented.
.
.
.
2009: Engine Controls
The Rule: Only five engines may be used per rider from Brno to the end of the season. That is eight races. Given the riders have two bikes (and two engines) each, and some riders choose to switch between the two through free practice until they find a feel for one of them, it’s not quite as straighforward as may be imagined at first. An engine is deemed to be used when it exits the pit lane, so any time a new engine is out on track it counts as used. Reliability, then, will be the key in addition to performance.
Effects: The proposal is to dock 10 points from a rider (and presumably, from the manufacturer and the team) every time an additional engine over the allocation is required by a rider. This targets the points a rider has accumulated, and is a severe penalty which could easily be a championship decider. We are also likely to see negative points totals in the championship as some of the back-of-the-grid strugglers get penalised without having accumulated more than 10 points.
The alternative to the point-dock is to follow the F1 route and penalise the rider in the next race by docking time or grid positions from the rider after qualification. MotoGPBlog prefers this, as it disadvantages the rider if he is at the front of the field and encourages action through the race as the rider fights to recover position.
Removing points that the rider has earned in other races is a poor decision. These points should be sacrosanct and not negotiable, after all they recognise the effort and risk the rider and his team has put in to achieve the results. Docking points in this way devalues this equation and will potentially upset the balance of the championship. Who wants to see a World Champion decided by point deductions? A big Thumbs Down on this one.
2010 Engine Controls and Motorcycle Restrictions
The Rule: Six engines allowed for the whole Championship. Only one motorcycle per rider.
Effects: While we may not see too many effects in 2009, in 2010 this rule really kicks in and it is inevitable that rider placings in the Championship will be affected. It will reduce costs for factory and satellite teams alike, and will probably result in some additional work (and cost) to improve reliability. We may see teams “turning down” engine performance in races, or for the whole season, slowing down the bikes in order to make engines last longer. The rev limit rules which were floated in 2008 are now redundant - why bother? The manufacturers will impose their own rev limits to make sure the bikes run on. Thumbs Up, even though this means effectively this is not a prototype series any more. But then, when we lost the tyre wars that went out of the window.
2009 No Friday Morning Practice
The Rule: The Friday Morning practice session is removed. Friday afternoon will still happen.
Effects: Used to trial early settings for the race and to shake down the bikes after the transport, the session will not be too badly missed. Rossi can have a lie in while Stoner can do another 20K on his mountain bike. A sesible move, though it probably will not save a huge amount of cash. Thumbs Up.
2010 No Friday Practice at all (proposed)
The Rule: Race weekends will effectively start their action on a Saturday, and Friday will be used for “promotional purposes”. More of those awful, staged videos of hung-over and bored riders enjoying local culture or cusine will be coming our way.
Effects: Friday afternoon is generally used to get a race set-up settled on the bike, leaving Saturday free for qualification preparations. This could compromise the rider’s set-up for the race, but along with the tyre changes (and lack of a pure qualification tyre) they have little else to do on a Saturday. There will be grumbles from some riders, and probabaly some from event organisers losing out on an additional day’s revenue, but again, fairly sensible from Dorna. Thumbs Up.
2010 Only 5 People in the Garage Allowed to Touch the Bike
The Rule: Essentially, 5 engineers are allowed. The wording of the rule is designed to negate the idea of giving a sixth mechanic the title of “Team PR Exec” and having them get their hands dirty on the bike. Limits the personnel working on the bike.
Effects: Saves the teams some money in wages and airfare. Could possibly compromise reliability (see Engine Controls), but although the mechanics will be forced to be less specilised, you can bet they will be well drilled by the manufacturers. Any effects will, therefore be secondary, and only seen (and penalised) via the Engine Reliability rulings. Thumbs Up. Fewer drunk mechanics on a Sunday night can only be a good thing.
That all gets a bit complicated....
Assuming Kallio needs a new engine it will be 4 left (2 already in use) for him not stoner: With rule being written per rider Stoner should have 5 engines to use whatever come his return. So the factory team immediately use new engines regardless of what Kallio does, therefore using at least 8 engines before a penalty is received. Or is it? lol. Cause in theory when Kallio goes back to Pramac he will be using 2 "new engines" as they'll be different to the ones he's been using with the factory team. That'll infact be all 5 of his engines in use. Assuming he doesn't need another new one before that - so destined for a penalty. This also means that theoretically Ducati could use 10 engines from now to end of season for Stoner's bike without penalties.
Perhaps they mean per ride, as it was afterall a money saving scheme. But then that will contradict "per rider" as Kallio using engines will penalise Stoner and likewise for the Pramac engines used for Kallio's bike. Think there maybe some issues with this rules.
I suppose they have to do some seal transfering...so the engines already in use at Pramac when Kallio returns do not add to his number of used engines.
Assuming Kallio needs a new engine it will be 4 left (2 already in use) for him not stoner: With rule being written per rider Stoner should have 5 engines to use whatever come his return. So the factory team immediately use new engines regardless of what Kallio does, therefore using at least 8 engines before a penalty is received. Or is it? lol. Cause in theory when Kallio goes back to Pramac he will be using 2 "new engines" as they'll be different to the ones he's been using with the factory team. That'll infact be all 5 of his engines in use. Assuming he doesn't need another new one before that - so destined for a penalty. This also means that theoretically Ducati could use 10 engines from now to end of season for Stoner's bike without penalties.
Perhaps they mean per ride, as it was afterall a money saving scheme. But then that will contradict "per rider" as Kallio using engines will penalise Stoner and likewise for the Pramac engines used for Kallio's bike. Think there maybe some issues with this rules.
I suppose they have to do some seal transfering...so the engines already in use at Pramac when Kallio returns do not add to his number of used engines.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
The luster of this sport gets dimmer every day. Why they cant see the answer to the problem is beyond me. Brush off the 990's, zero,none nada, traction control in any form,as much fuel as you want eliminates the expensive fuel management system. 250-260 hp machines with crazy acceleration and top speed, but slower in the corners puts more emphasis on braking which will create more passing and better racing. I know i dont have to tell you guys this but maybe if we keep saying it they might hear us.
povol i think they know but they dont want to admit the mistake they made with the 800cc by changing again. even stoner that took the first 800 wc had said that if they had to change, the displacement should be 1200cc. at least now with lorenzo we have some good racing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Aug 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>gonna be a 2 horse race tommorro between 46 & 99... perdosa for an easy 3rd.
yeap after catalunya and sachsenring, looks like the third battle will be tomorrow..
though i think rossi will be on a soft rear and jorge on a hard.. like germany i think.. i m not sure.
fabrizio only 3 tenths faster than superpole..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Aug 15 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>gonna be a 2 horse race tommorro between 46 & 99... perdosa for an easy 3rd.
yeap after catalunya and sachsenring, looks like the third battle will be tomorrow..
though i think rossi will be on a soft rear and jorge on a hard.. like germany i think.. i m not sure.
fabrizio only 3 tenths faster than superpole..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Aug 15 2009, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What has Edwards place in the standings got to do with anything. He's still
an American - meaning there are more than one - which negates your
statement altogether. You're just plain wrong and too much of a ....... to admit it.
hahaha nothing. its all based on good looks hahahhaa
an American - meaning there are more than one - which negates your
statement altogether. You're just plain wrong and too much of a ....... to admit it.
hahaha nothing. its all based on good looks hahahhaa
Joined Jun 2006
2K Posts | 20+
south wales UK
can someone help me out here?
i thought they can maintain the engine with new parts just cant use a whole new motor?
these new rules suck if they cant check the engine properly wont it be dagerous to use that motor in the race? safety issues?
stupid rules
i thought they can maintain the engine with new parts just cant use a whole new motor?
these new rules suck if they cant check the engine properly wont it be dagerous to use that motor in the race? safety issues?
stupid rules
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Aug 15 2009, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>can someone help me out here?
i thought they can maintain the engine with new parts just cant use a whole new motor?
these new rules suck if they cant check the engine properly wont it be dagerous to use that motor in the race? safety issues?
stupid rules
AFAIK they are sealed. Once they are sealed they can't be maintained. I supose the seals does not include the clutch as that the access to the transmission and they will probably be allowed to change cogs. But crank, sylinders and tops are definatly unavailable. The big issue is how these engines cope with crashes like we saw today and if end covers are even allowed to be changed.
i thought they can maintain the engine with new parts just cant use a whole new motor?
these new rules suck if they cant check the engine properly wont it be dagerous to use that motor in the race? safety issues?
stupid rules
AFAIK they are sealed. Once they are sealed they can't be maintained. I supose the seals does not include the clutch as that the access to the transmission and they will probably be allowed to change cogs. But crank, sylinders and tops are definatly unavailable. The big issue is how these engines cope with crashes like we saw today and if end covers are even allowed to be changed.
Rossi: front: hard, rear: hard
Lorenzo: front: soft, rear: hard
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bill88 @ Aug 15 2009, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>povol i think they know but they dont want to admit the mistake they made with the 800cc by changing again. even stoner that took the first 800 wc had said that if they had to change, the displacement should be 1200cc. at least now with lorenzo we have some good racing.
yeap after catalunya and sachsenring, looks like the third battle will be tomorrow..
though i think rossi will be on a soft rear and jorge on a hard.. like germany i think.. i m not sure.
fabrizio only 3 tenths faster than superpole..
Lorenzo: front: soft, rear: hard
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bill88 @ Aug 15 2009, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>povol i think they know but they dont want to admit the mistake they made with the 800cc by changing again. even stoner that took the first 800 wc had said that if they had to change, the displacement should be 1200cc. at least now with lorenzo we have some good racing.
yeap after catalunya and sachsenring, looks like the third battle will be tomorrow..
though i think rossi will be on a soft rear and jorge on a hard.. like germany i think.. i m not sure.
fabrizio only 3 tenths faster than superpole..
Strange qualifying session. I thought the times would tumble at the end of the session but Jorge & Vales race pace was unbeatable for even themselves. As usual Dani will take off at the start and lead for a few laps but I think the 2 Yamahas will reel him in before too long.
BTW how come Jorge did not use a soft tyre during qualifying? I expected him to come in and put on a soft rear tyre and take pole but he stayed out on the hards and didn't get the job done.
BTW how come Jorge did not use a soft tyre during qualifying? I expected him to come in and put on a soft rear tyre and take pole but he stayed out on the hards and didn't get the job done.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Aug 15 2009, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Strange qualifying session. I thought the times would tumble at the end of the session but Jorge & Vales race pace was unbeatable for even themselves. As usual Dani will take off at the start and lead for a few laps but I think the 2 Yamahas will reel him in before too long.
BTW how come Jorge did not use a soft tyre during qualifying? I expected him to come in and put on a soft rear tyre and take pole but he stayed out on the hards and didn't get the job done.
He said in his interview that he never felt comfortable on the soft tire. He said he didn't know why cause he always qualifies with the soft tire. Somehting of a mystery qualifying performance from him
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>“This morning we tried the softer Bridgestone tyre but I didn't feel so good on it. This afternoon we gave it another chance but again it didn't seem to work so well, so we decided to just concentrate on the harder [race] tyre,” explained Lorenzo, who was fastest in both free practice sessions and led much of qualifying.
"Normally I am fast with soft tyres. In my whole life I have been very fast and have got a lot of pole positions, but in the last two races I don't feel enough confidence with the soft tyres.
BTW how come Jorge did not use a soft tyre during qualifying? I expected him to come in and put on a soft rear tyre and take pole but he stayed out on the hards and didn't get the job done.
He said in his interview that he never felt comfortable on the soft tire. He said he didn't know why cause he always qualifies with the soft tire. Somehting of a mystery qualifying performance from him
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>“This morning we tried the softer Bridgestone tyre but I didn't feel so good on it. This afternoon we gave it another chance but again it didn't seem to work so well, so we decided to just concentrate on the harder [race] tyre,” explained Lorenzo, who was fastest in both free practice sessions and led much of qualifying.
"Normally I am fast with soft tyres. In my whole life I have been very fast and have got a lot of pole positions, but in the last two races I don't feel enough confidence with the soft tyres.
