Bring on the beast!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Oct 16 2008, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>now i know your not to bright berry but even you must realize that a long carbon pole will have more flex than a carbon box.shape plays as much of a part as material.
it's been stated that this carbon frame is too rigid and they will have to build flex into the suspension to make the bike ridable


stated by whom?

I don't think you understand the slightest bit of this stuff Rog.

Another benefit of CF is that quick frame mods can be done to suit individual riders whether it be dimensional changes or chasis flex requirements.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 16 2008, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stated by whom?

I don't think you understand the slightest bit of this stuff Rog.

Another benefit of CF is that quick frame mods can be done to suit individual riders whether it be dimensional changes or chasis flex requirements.
well i think your talking out of your arse. your opinions are not facts. so your a metallurgist now are you ? an expert in composits ?

your the one compareing a motorbike frame to a fly fishing rod you gimp

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Oct 16 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well i think your talking out of your arse. your opinions are not facts. so your a metallurgist now are you ? an expert in composits ?

I was/am a test engineer with experise in force measurement and testing. I did have the occasional need to learn a tad about some materials and indeed do several courses on metallurgy and the properties of materials ...... you should know that I'm sure you had to do simillar what with you being a "Performance engineer" as you declared


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Oct 16 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>your the one compareing a motorbike frame to a fly fishing rod you gimp

so you feel a moto chasis made from CF and a fly rod made from CF have no link whatever?

Don't be stupid Rog. my point was that CF parts may be made to flex by design ...... not just by changing of the composition of the material.

Lex said CF does not flex ..... this I corrected. Get real Rog.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 16 2008, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I was/am a test engineer with experise in force measurement and testing. I did have the occasional need to learn a tad about some materials and indeed do several courses on metallurgy and the properties of materials ...... you should know that I'm sure you had to do simillar what with you being a "Performance engineer" as you declared




so you feel a moto chasis made from CF and a fly rod made from CF have no link whatever?

Don't be stupid Rog. my point was that CF parts may be made to flex by design ...... not just by changing of the composition of the material.

Lex said CF does not flex ..... this I corrected. Get real Rog.
you really are an amazing person, thought you were an electronic's engineer to do with testing traction control. i only scrapped the surface with regards to metallurgy so dont profess to know all about it unlike you.
if you are and engineer which i doubt you would not liken a fishing rod to a monocock type frame when talking about flex propertys

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 16 2008, 02:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>After these 2 years of pondering, I have come to think that riding the Ducati a' la Casey is "just" a matter of guts and determination. Keep that throttle open and ignore the shakes and screams and your mind that tells you to slow down. Mind you, we are speaking of super-guts here, because in GP 'guts' beyond any ordinary level must be given for granted, even for the very last rider on the grid.

The proof? That little spider seen hanging on the side of bikes, called Elias. For most of the season on the Alice Ducati, he was even slower than Macho 'violet' Melandri. Then for a couple of races, when his seat was at stake and he needed results to make sure he had a job next year, suddenly he was going for the podium! So 2+2=4, he was just pushing his limits and magically his Ducati began lapping faster. As soon as the seat was safe, he resumed his usual pace...
Elias isn't exactly known for his consistency. It's not like saving his spot in GPs on the strength of a handful of late season performances is new to him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Oct 16 2008, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Elias isn't exactly known for his consistency. It's not like saving his spot in GPs on the strength of a handful of late season performances is new to him.


Wasn't it linked somewhere on this site that Elias got a new rear shock from the Ducati factory team?

Although I have stated before that Elias could pull a lap record on a CT110 at contract time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 16 2008, 07:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>After these 2 years of pondering, I have come to think that riding the Ducati a' la Casey is "just" a matter of guts and determination. Keep that throttle open and ignore the shakes and screams and your mind that tells you to slow down. Mind you, we are speaking of super-guts here, because in GP 'guts' beyond any ordinary level must be given for granted, even for the very last rider on the grid.

The proof? That little spider seen hanging on the side of bikes, called Elias. For most of the season on the Alice Ducati, he was even slower than Macho 'violet' Melandri. Then for a couple of races, when his seat was at stake and he needed results to make sure he had a job next year, suddenly he was going for the podium! So 2+2=4, he was just pushing his limits and magically his Ducati began lapping faster. As soon as the seat was safe, he resumed his usual pace...
I think you are basically correct. I think also relevant are lightning reflexes more extreme than the average even for motogp riders, and unusual physical strength for his size/weight. He also has an ability to focus very intensely when confident in himself and his bike/tyre package. Unfortunately I don't think he has rossi's tactical/strategic ability, and nor is he likely to develop it, not that I think valentino developed it either; he always had it.

Ducati's new carbon framed bike not quite the monster we were all expecting.
link

Here's a simple look at it #46

http://bikethink.com/ride_feel.htm

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 16 2008, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Here's a simple look at it #46

http://bikethink.com/ride_feel.htm
think you will find thats talking about peddle cycle frames not modern motorcycle frames, quite a difference these days

CF frame or not... still not a "BEAST" style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 16 2008, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Metal alloys are not easy to mix up, the difficulty occurs because they are blended under heat and heat reacts differently to different metals. Alloying is getting better but its still not hugely accurate.
And then welding metals changes the metals properties ..... especially each side of the welds. So again the use of CF increases the likelyhood that they will get a predictable article produced.

The other benefit of CF is that the properties are allready very consistent, alloys can and do go wrong in the alloying process. Therefore most changes in CF structures will be done by physical dimensional changes, not reliant on getting a good batch of an alloy.

CF has been used very successfully in chasis design, in high performance motor vehicles ( just look at F1), and has long ago usurped Al. alloys

Barry if everything you've posted were right. Teams would all be running carbon fiber frames.

They have intentionally avoided cf over the last 20 years.

It wasn't until teams started lengthening the swingarm and bolting it directly to the engine case that carbon fiber became a viable material.

Why? Because a majority of chassis flex is still handled by metal alloy materials.

Carbon fiber frames will only connect to the steering head in this day and age. Increased rigidity at the front end is part of 800cc handling characteristics.

I'm not suggesting carbon fiber will never play an important structural role or that it has no place in motorcycle construction, but I am saying that the changes in bike design, not changes in cf technology, is what's driving Ducati's move to carbon fiber.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 16 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barry if everything you've posted were right. Teams would all be running carbon fiber frames.

They have intentionally avoided cf over the last 20 years.

It wasn't until teams started lengthening the swingarm and bolting it directly to the engine case that carbon fiber became a viable material.

Why? Because a majority of chassis flex is still handled by metal alloy materials.

Carbon fiber frames will only connect to the steering head in this day and age. Increased rigidity at the front end is part of 800cc handling characteristics.

I'm not suggesting carbon fiber will never play an important structural role or that it has no place in motorcycle construction, but I am saying that the changes in bike design, not changes in cf technology, is what's driving Ducati's move to carbon fiber.
Do you remember the Britten? That was a twin built by John Britten who was by trade a glass blower who used a CF frame. That bike was and still is ahead of its time. There is a channel that runs from the front of the bike through the bike and out the tail for stability. The air runs through the bike. Beautiful machine and was a real runner. Shame that John Britten died cause I would bet any newer iteration would have been something to see. I think the guy was from New Zealand.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Oct 16 2008, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do you remember the Britten? That was a twin built by John Britten who was by trade a glass blower who used a CF frame. That bike was and still is ahead of its time. There is a channel that runs from the front of the bike through the bike and out the tail for stability. The air runs through the bike. Beautiful machine and was a real runner. Shame that John Britten died cause I would bet any newer iteration would have been something to see. I think the guy was from New Zealand.
i9 remember him. he raced it at daytona. i remember his first bike fell apart during a test ride because the carbon frame failed. that didn't stop him tho and he got it to work. i think the engine was something special as well if i remember correctly. didnt the poor chap die of cancer ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Oct 16 2008, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i9 remember him. he raced it at daytona. i remember his first bike fell apart during a test ride because the carbon frame failed. that didn't stop him tho and he got it to work. i think the engine was something special as well if i remember correctly. didnt the poor chap die of cancer ?
Yeah at an early age to. I think what he did was used a Ducati engine or a Suzuki or even both to model the bike. He then built his own after a while. The bike did have frame problems and did fall apart but he did get it to work. I remember watching the daytona 200 with that bike runnin. I forget most of it since it was quite a bit ago but I am sure you can research it well enough to find all the details. Beautiful bike with the motor exposed and all. A huge piece for a museum to have as does Barber motorsports parks museum has one. Several collectors have them as well. One bike that really had never been looked at to closely by the big manufactures that should have since he was so competative at an early stage of the game.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Oct 15 2008, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well Ducati is also in dev with them or some of ferrari to help with the new twin motor configuration. They may be abandoning the desmodromic system I read.


Links please

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Oct 17 2008, 07:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do you remember the Britten? That was a twin built by John Britten who was by trade a glass blower who used a CF frame. That bike was and still is ahead of its time. There is a channel that runs from the front of the bike through the bike and out the tail for stability. The air runs through the bike. Beautiful machine and was a real runner. Shame that John Britten died cause I would bet any newer iteration would have been something to see. I think the guy was from New Zealand.
The Britten was also raced at the Isle of Man, I've got a video of it. The guy apparently was a genius, from everything I've read about him. If he didn't die so young motorcycling would be very different now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Oct 17 2008, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Britten was also raced at the Isle of Man, I've got a video of it. The guy apparently was a genius, from everything I've read about him. If he didn't die so young motorcycling would be very different now.
Not just "genius" but real passion for racing and technology. If anybody here hasn't read or heard of Mr. Britten, you would do yourself a favor if you research this man. He was years ahead of his time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Oct 16 2008, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok I found the article. It was in the october 08 issue of Cycle World. Ok so It basicly states that Ducati is working with HPE technical cinsulting which is owned by Enzo Ferrari's son Piero to develop what is promised to be the ULTIMATE TWIN. They are also saying that the desmo system would possibly be reserved for Racing models and there will be chains instead of belts. Intresting that they are still stickin to the twins. I would say screw it and punch out the 990 motor to a full 999 and run all over the competition. I think also they are staying away from that cause it would make the bike that everyone that paid the 75gs for it pissed since they would have to homolagate it and make it affordable. But that would be bad .... .... Aprilia has the RSV4 coming out so maybe they say screw it and run the damn thing.
Sorry about late reply.
Thanks for the info.
If the desmo system is for racing and they are developing the ultimate twin,it could also mean that they continue with the classic models that isn't supposed to have monstrous power.They could mean the ultimate retro bike/engine relying on the benefits from twinspark which also generates better midrange torque but is much more simple.It will be interresting to see what happens.
I think ducati has too many twinfans for them to make an engine like the aprillia or their desmosedici.
Then they wouldn't have a twin in SBK series ,they would have 4 cyl.like everybody else and wouldn't stand out like they do now,and have done for a long time.