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Big bang by the numbers

Joined Jun 2007
662 Posts | 2+
In my home
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Dec/071217b.htm


Ryder Notes: Big Bang By The Numbers
by julian ryder, back home in the uk now
Monday, December 17, 2007

Yamaha took the wraps off their 800cc Big Bang engine at Valencia. Soup's Julian Ryder explains takes a look.
image by hans delbrook
One thing every engineer in the paddock is agreed on is that big-bang engines work. They know this because the stopwatch says so. What they don't know is why they work. Conjecture has centred around the effect of torque pulses on the rear tire's contact patch, leading to a widely accepted theory that closely grouped firing pulses allow the tire to slip then recover and grip over the extended interval before the next power pulse. The origins of this theory come from US dirt-tracking where firing two big Harley pistons close together within a few degrees of crank revolution gave what was called 'the big sneeze'. Personally, I never found this argument convincing when applied to a MotoGP bike, the time frame for events to happen seems far too short. Can a construction like a tire carcass really react that rapidly?

Still, it was the best model anyone could come up with. When MotoGP engines moved away from big-bang towards long-bang by rephrasing crankshafts to spread the power pulses out slightly there was no change in traction. You would have expected some significant changes if the 'big-sneeze' analysis were correct. Maybe it wasn't the tire at all. In the absence of hard data, it was all conjecture.


The Big Bang mill has two jobs: better acceleration and to improve tire life. With the Michelins of '07 the latter seemed to be unmet.
image by hans delbrook
Or it was until Saturday night at Valencia when Yamaha actually gave us some numbers to crunch for the first time. Given that the M1 didn't have the best of seasons, it was quite brave of Yamaha to open up like this. They started with a few comparisons between the performance of the new for '07 800s and the dear departed 990s. These figures from Mugello are probably in line with what you would have come up with after a few minutes' thought: the new bikes were over 6mph slower down straights but up to 5mph faster in corners. Throttles were fully open for 25% of a lap compared to just over 15% previously. Data from Jerez showed the 800s braking up to 30 metres later for corners and getting on the throttle up to 15 metres sooner, which helps to explain why lap times stayed static or came down. Incidentally, Yamaha say they improved the M1's power output by 4% over the season, raised the rev ceiling by 1000rpm, and improved fuel economy by 3%, going through three versions of the motor. The first only did the first two GPs with the final version appearing at Brno after the Summer break. Yamaha started the year with a top-speed deficit of 4% to the Ducatis and had more than halved the gap by the end of the year. The engine management electronics could switch between three different ignition maps. Previously, the bike could be set to use whichever map was required in each gear. In 2007, it selected the right map not just for each gear but for each corner. This means the bike 'knew' where it was, just as the Ducati must have done when they tried out their semi-automatic gearbox in 2004. Corner counting would be too simple and would need resetting after a visit to the pits or an off-track excursion. According to one eminent engineer (not a Yamaha man), GPS is perfectly accurate enough for this. Wouldn't want to trust it at, say, Brands Hatch to differentiate between Paddock and Bottom Bend, or Turns 1 and 3 at Laguna Seca. And Degner's and the 130R are almost on top of one another at Suzuka!


As with many facets of the sport, the Big Bang theory started on American dirt tracks as the 'Twingle'. Here Yamaha men roll out their super-secret big bang engine.
image by hans delbrook
Interesting as this performance data was, it was just an hors d'oeuvre. The main course was presented by Masao Furusawa under the title 'What is Big Bang?' Fursawa's area of expertise is harmonics, so perhaps it was no surprise that he chose to use the analogy of signal-to-noise ratio to explain his theory. You understand that best from tuning your radio every day. Accurately setting your radio to the desired station means the signal comes in strongly and overpowers any background noise. Noise is always present, what you want is a strong enough signal to render it irrelevant. So what is signal and what is noise in the context of a motorcycle engine? This is best explained by thinking about that word 'connection' you keep on hearing riders use in testing. This is shorthand for the connection between the throttle and the rear tire. In an ideal world, opening the throttle by 10% would deliver 10% of available power (actually torque, but never mind) to the rear tire. Life is rarely this convenient or simple, and racing engines certainly aren't.

Without doing the math, you can see how this variation of torque over each revolution might produce some small variations in the torque seen by the tire contact patch. On your 180-crank, four-cylinder road bike, you won't notice the effect because you don't use high enough revs, but as this inertia torque is proportional to rpm squared, you can see how a 17,000rpm MotoGP engine might have problems.
Modern electronics should be able to provide the linear throttle response riders crave; in Furusawa's model a high signal-to-noise ratio. And what his research suggests is that that is what you do get—up to a critical rev level where the signal is severely distorted by 'noise'. The question is, what is this interference? Furusawa says it is 'inertia torque', that is the torque due to the motion of the heavy moving parts in the engine—crankshaft, con rods and pistons. This is totally separate from the torque generated by the combustion process. At low revs, the level of interference from the rotating mass is insignificant, but around 12,000rpm it starts to become greater than combustion torque and by around 16,000 is double. This is counter-intuitive because you would assume, with a conventional 180-degree crank, that everything would balance out. Not so, as you discover when you look more deeply at the direction in which torque is exerted at different points of a crank's rotation..

Combustion torque is easy to understand: it's produced by ignition of the fuel/air mixture. Inertia torque is much trickier to define and understand. Let's try. Forget combustion and just consider the piston and con rod travelling up the bore. At BDC the piston, con rod and crank pin are in line and no torque can be applied to the crankshaft (in fact at top and bottom dead centres, the con rod is momentarily stationary and vertical). Now move through 90 degrees. The big end of the con rod together with the piston is moving quickly with lots of energy and is about to decelerate to a halt at TDC. That energy of motion (kinetic energy) has to go somewhere, and the only place it can go is into the crankshaft. So inertia torque is positive in that it is applied in the direction of rotation of the crank. On the down stroke, the converse is true. The lower part of the con rod together with the piston has to be rapidly accelerated from rest at TDC to a high velocity, which requires an input of energy. That removes energy from the crankshaft so here inertia torque acts against the direction of rotation.

Without doing the math, you can see how this variation of torque over each revolution might produce some small variations in the torque seen by the tire contact patch. On your 180-crank, four-cylinder road bike, you won't notice the effect because you don't use high enough revs, but as this inertia torque is proportional to rpm squared, you can see how a 17,000rpm MotoGP engine might have problems. At those sort of engine speeds, the 'noise' of the inertia torque is 'louder' than the 'signal' of the combustion torque. The rider's connection with what's happening at the rear tire's contact patch is lost both with the throttle open and with it closed.


Thanks to GPS and Yamaha's electronics package, the M1 not only knew what gear it was in but which corner it was in. Very helpful data in setting up the bike.
image by hans delbrook
The cure is equally counter-intuitive; an irregular firing pattern, 90-degree crankshaft. The conventional 180 crank has its two outer pistons at TDC while the centre pair are at BDC. Leave cylinders number one and three as they are then move two and four through 90 degrees in opposite directions and you have the 90-degree crank with one piston coming to TDC every 90 degrees of crank rotation. Yamaha tried firing all four cylinders in one revolution and compared the result to the more conventional firing order of two cylinder firing at a 270-degree interval in the first revolution of the crank and the other two firing just 90-degrees apart in the middle of the next revolution. The first surprise is that they sounded the same, the second is that there was no difference in traction. That effectively killed off the 'big sneeze' theory. The mathematics say that inertia torque is reduced to almost zero before 10,000rpm and—crucially—to only about 3% of the 180-crank's value at 15,000rpm. The experimental test to confirm the theory involved measuring rotational fluctuation of the rear wheel, a consequence of uneven torque delivery. With the 180 crank there are big torque spikes at all throttle openings, but with the highest peaks just as the rider gets on or off the throttle. The 90-degree crank shows no such behaviour, suggesting it would make getting into and out of corners a lot easier for the rider. Inertia torque (noise) is still there, it's just at such a low level it doesn't have a significant effect. Of course the first law of engineering says you never get something for nothing and an irregular firing order means vibration that may require a balance shaft or heavier components to tame, thus losing you part of what you've just gained.

These findings are of course all for in-line four-cylinder motors, but it's easy to see how the 90-degree crankshaft can effectively mimic a V4—the back tire doesn't know what direction the cylinders are pointing in! Is this an inherent advantage of the 90-degree V4 engine? Yamaha think not, and will continue with the in-line engine which they regard as enabling them to build a shorter and therefore more nimble machine. But they will have to use an irregular firing order crank.

Furusawa's work is significant in that it is the first coherent explanation of why big-bang engines actually work despite the fact that in design terms they look like horrible out-of-balance lash-ups. And there wasn't one mention of tire contact patches slipping and gripping. What the Yamaha team have done is define what that nebulous term 'connection' means when applied to motorcycle racing: it means the ratio of combustion torque to inertia torque, with a high ratio being the good connection of a contemporary four-stroke MotoGP engine and a low ratio being the distinctly dubious connection of a 500cc two-stroke being aimed out of a corner. It feels like our knowledge of how motorcycles behave has moved on another step.


ENDS
 
great insight, thanks
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Boy thats all "mud in the eye" for Rossi's attempts to beliitle other with the use of electronics ...... I'm an ex-techo and noting much wow's me but .... GPS to choose engine mapping depending on the part of the track!! .... amazing.

Crikey what stuff doesn't Rossi's bike have!!


No wonder he said he hates it .....
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Talk about rider assist.
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The difference between the Japanese and the Italians is hilarious.

Ducati figured this out many many years ago using good old fashioned seat of the pants engineering.

The Japanese have made Italian passion a science and now they are applying it to a variety of different configurations in a variety of situations. Different strokes for different folks.

Funny that the article declares that motorcycling has taken a step forward.
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They know this phenomenon has been seat of the pants for nearly 2 decades now.

I guess they just needed a good conclusion to reinforce the point.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 19 2007, 01:05 PM) [snapback]104812[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
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Boy thats all "mud in the eye" for Rossi's attempts to beliitle other with the use of electronics ...... I'm an ex-techo and noting much wow's me but .... GPS to choose engine mapping depending on the part of the track!! .... amazing.


Its quite smart, altho at this stage they wouldn't be trusting it fully.

Engine mapping is not gonna throw anybody off like GPS traction control might
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i skimmed over the article and it does not make much sense to me. Why are the MotoGP bikes reverting to the screamer configuration then? there is no way traction control is smoothing out the "noise" which art the redline would be 40K times/min (666 times per second)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Dec 19 2007, 02:39 PM) [snapback]104867[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i skimmed over the article and it does not make much sense to me. Why are the MotoGP bikes reverting to the screamer configuration then? there is no way traction control is smoothing out the "noise" which art the redline would be 40K times/min (666 times per second)


Ducati have gone to the screamer. They can because they run a 90 degree four. I think the others changed to try to catch them, have most teams def. changed?

I agree TC could never stop noise at the source, but it has to stop the effects of noise. The article says noise is inertial torque. It's bad because it pushes the tire into its sliding coefficient. If TC stops a tire from sliding, doesn't it accomplish nearly the same thing as balancing the engine?

I understand the rider would prefer to have noise stopped altogether because they have more feel, but TC can filter it out.

Doesn't this article almost completely explain all the troubles Rossi has been having with Michelin? Maybe his chances in 08 are better than I thought.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 19 2007, 08:05 AM) [snapback]104812[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
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Boy thats all "mud in the eye" for Rossi's attempts to beliitle other with the use of electronics ...... I'm an ex-techo and noting much wow's me but .... GPS to choose engine mapping depending on the part of the track!! .... amazing.

Crikey what stuff doesn't Rossi's bike have!!
No wonder he said he hates it .....
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Talk about rider assist.
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Did Rossi ever say that he didn't use rider aids?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mr. Shupe @ Dec 21 2007, 05:29 AM) [snapback]104920[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Did Rossi ever say that he didn't use rider aids?


I don't know what Rossi has siad about TC ...... judging on some of the ludicrous statements I have seen attributed to him saying I doubt very much what I hear comes from him.

But I do see typed here the claims many folk put forward regarding Rossi and TC ...... thats what the whole TC debate centred around for the last few months.

I doubt Rossi could have said much of the stuff we hear on TC, comments such as:

.......... saying Rossi dislikes TC, when clearly he has used it for years ...... ludicrous


.......... Rossi has his TC turned "down" to "off" ..... well I sure he has had at times but nobody apart from Rossi ( I assume ) and his TC guru would know that at any one time, and that latest article would suggest that Rossi does not even have control over his TC if indeed they are using GPS to map the bike with the track. Thats bits impressive to me but it makes a farce of some of the comments we have seen on here.


......... Rossi is "oldschool" and would beat everyone without TC ..... well who knows, he may but since he has been riding with TC and ECU enhancing programs for years , and certainly longer than most riders ...... seems a long call to me.


I think I have made it clear as mustard that I believe Rossi is one of the "most assisted" riders out there.

Why would you even get that idea from what I wrote? or indeed any of my other posts ....... it all just smacks of you "wanted to believe what you wanted to believe" but now it seems so wrong, so you're defending a past ludicrous impression of TC and Rossi
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 20 2007, 08:32 PM) [snapback]104950[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>Why would you even get that idea from what I wrote? or indeed any of my other posts ....... it all just smacks of you "wanted to believe what you wanted to believe" but now it seems so wrong, so you're defending a past ludicrous impression of TC and Rossi
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My bad, all I was aware of was Rossi criticizing rider aids in general. As far as this forum goes, I've been out of the loop (this has been hard to read this year). I thought you were laughing at Rossi for criticizing the effect of rider aids and using them at the same time. My bad.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mr. Shupe @ Dec 21 2007, 02:14 PM) [snapback]104955[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I thought you were laughing at Rossi for criticizing the effect of rider aids and using them at the same time. My bad.
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I am ..... but have never thought Rossi said ( or someone said Rossi said
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) that Rossi rode without any riders aids.

I do find his ( if it is him ) complaints about electronic aids .... hypocritical.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 21 2007, 08:34 AM) [snapback]104962[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I do find his ( if it is him ) complaints about electronic aids .... hypocritical.


i find this quite ironic, as you seem impressed that the yamaha( and if you read carefully, you might notice that the big bang article does not mention rossi once)has GPS modulated engine mapping, and seem to think rossis' bike has the most electronic aid but in this very article, it said the yam had this for 2007 and the ducati had it way back in 2004...

whos being hypocritical now?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BigAl @ Dec 21 2007, 09:31 PM) [snapback]104966[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
whos being hypocritical now?


only those who are complaining about it ....
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Is Pedrosa saying its unfair, or that they want it changed?
Hayden?
Guintoli?
Vermulen?
Hopkins?

I personally, really don't think it matters two hoots .... the good guy in each year will shine in most cases.
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And indeed it seemed it was fine ... until now.

Whether they ban it or not is not a problem for me ... what gets me is the constant barrage of " things that caused Rossi to lose" ...... and even worse an orgainisation such as Dorna reacts to it
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What would have happened last year if say Stoner complained about something?

I'm beginning to think that when they impounded Stoners bike early on for "checks" ( supposedly someone thought Ducati were not running an 800
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) was that even a reaction by Dorna to another complaint?

Its kinda ruining the sport a bit to me ..... each year it was good to see a manufacturer or rider come up with something new ..... this year there seems to be a constant barrage of things that need "putting back to how they were" ........ do you remember the saga of MZ and the expansion chamber and how it was revolutionary compared to anyone elses bikes?? ( until the Japanese got a closer look at it that was ) ...... well what I'm saying is Grand Prix racing in thiis league has allways been about inovation and finding a better way to make a bike, of some declared physical constraints, go faster than any other bike. Its seems a shame to be trifling over such small differences as have been touted this year when in the past thats what it was all about.

Maybe it is more of a riders championship, than I thought, these days.

Sure some changes, by declaration of a new rule, are good occasionally ... ut in a way I think electronics are where much future development lies .... what a shame to cut off that whole avenue of further advancement. Imagine if they had banned MZ ( Kaaden’s inventions ) way back then ..... we would neer have seen, nor enjoyed the benefits of, two strokes reach the level they did. The expansion chamber was an invention that virtually doubled the power of two strokes in the space of a few small years.

I know from personal experince how good modern electronics are in bikes compared to say the old ponts and condensor systems, or hydralic brakes .. etc. etc. etc. Why cut off such a great new area of development for the sake of complaints from Rossi as to why he did not win.

I'm sure all the "better riders at the time hated MZ's but gee imagine what it would be like had they been regulated out with there "inventions".
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Dec 22 2007, 12:37 AM) [snapback]104971[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Wow, you blab as much as Jumkie, but you manage to come off even worse.

'gratz!
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Wow good point ....... I'll take that on board when I'm considering the topic at hand
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Got anything to add ....... constructive or destructive to the topic .... either would be good.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 21 2007, 01:05 PM) [snapback]104970[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I personally, really don't think it matters two hoots .... the good guy in each year will shine in most cases.
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And indeed it seemed it was fine ... until now.


Maybe 10yrs ago.

the bike now determines how far a rider can go, even if they have talent it only shows when they have the right package.

i think thats a fair assessment.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 22 2007, 01:36 AM) [snapback]104978[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Maybe 10yrs ago.

the bike now determines how far a rider can go, even if they have talent it only shows when they have the right package.

i think thats a fair assessment.


Ok how about looking at it this way .....

I'm sure by now we all realise that the operation of these riders aids is decided on and put into action by the Rider and his pertinent crew member that deals with the programming of the electronics to give the bike the feel that the rider wants.

Lets get into perspective what these devices do to help the rider .....

Engine Mapping ....... how proportional the power delivery is across its rev. In the old days this was often achieved by jet selections though never as accurate as nowadays with fuel inject. Each rider would have this tweaked for each track but I'm sure they must develop a mean of setting for themselves that would differ from all other riders.

TC ......... look at the telemetry for previous crash situations and decide on and program in a subroutine to change the condition deemed to have caused the crash. Eg. Wheell spin detected that suggests that at the current lean angle and lateral force due to cornering ... the thing could let go ...... subroutine drops power hence fixes possible situation. Ok the more a rider wants it ... the more he will tweak this safeguard out.

Fuel management .......... if fuel usage is getting bad ..... this one I'm pretty sure the riders hate .... because they know its not their decision .... fact is with a 21 litre limit ... they have to make it home to get points .... so the trade of between power and fuel economy comes into it so this would be one of the only programs they would not be able to change ....

Engine braking ...... very personal setting I would think some like more some like it to run on a bit.

ABS ...... If back wheel lockup detected lessen brake pressure ...... rider tweakable but probably manufacturer/team would heavily influence the settings for operation.

Launch control .......... acts on clutch??? ( could work with power cut too )
Would be another one of those that is tweaked by rider choice and riding style.


So to impose a "standard ECU ........ is like saying to the rider you can't adjust this settings any more ........ the first question is I wonder who the "lucky" bugger is who's natural settings would come closest to the imposed standard? Bit unfair .... And in a way its as if Dorna wil decide the winner.

To be honest total removal of say TC amd ABS, and Fuel man. stuff wouldbe very much fairer. But if it was I'm sure the manufacturers would soon find another way to tweak the bikes.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 21 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]104990[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
To be honest total removal of say TC amd ABS, and Fuel man. stuff wouldbe very much fairer. But if it was I'm sure the manufacturers would soon find another way to tweak the bikes.


Tweaks to the bike are fine with me, engine power as well.

Ducati have had the fastest straight line speed for like 5yrs... but that didn't bring them the championship.

A standard ECU yes does limit what the rider can adjust and that makes them have to ride around their issues rather than receiving a 'quick fix'
 
You need to make a qualitative delineation between technological advancement and rider replacement aids.

Expansion chamber - didn't change the riders job--good

Carbon brakes - didn't change the riders job--good

It's when you start talking about the electro rider aids that things start getting iffy.

Wheelie control - keeps people out of the hospital but now you can hamfist it down the straight--didn't change the riders job much--okay

Brake modulation - keeps new grippy compounds that are super sensitive to heat from being too unpredictable for the rider--changes the rider's job substantially but needed to run carbon--a trade like the move to 4 strokes--I say okay

TC- started off innocent, but now it is the all seeing eye. It watches wheel spin, so it also monitors every bit of electronics on the bike. Feeds info to some systems, and monitors others--ban it.

Fuel Management - Provides unpredictable power so you gotta have TC to run it to it's fullest. This is a second level tech -- bad, imo.

GPS engine mapping - the pinnacle of all things unacceptable in moto racing. second level tech; an upgrade of regular engine mapping based off of fuel management, plus you gotta have TC to run it---really really bad because you could never run this without all the other electro systems that are mainstay in the sport.

Like I've said, the artform is dead. The subtle modulations and seat of the pants feel have been replaced by a web of electronics all set up to monitor and fee one another.

It's like PC's. First was code. Then operating systems based off of code. Then software programs for the operating system that's based off of the code. Then software management programs for the software for the operating system based off of the code.

What was the point of that nasty web? To make computers usable for the average fool. This isn't any different. The unforeseen consequence: It has left a wake of administrative expenses in its wake; productivity is high when the damn thing works.

Like a person sitting at a computer terminal, the rider will be necessary for the simplest of inputs--the "typing" and "clicking" of GP riding. All they will need to do in the future is be fit, fearless, hit their marks, and understand how tech works so they can adjust mid-race.

All of these teams are spending beaucoups to buy an extra half second, because it's a lot easier than scouting, paying, and training the next Rossi. It's a lot easier to find a half dozen decent techs, than to find and pay 1 Burgess. Lame.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 21 2007, 03:34 AM) [snapback]104962[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I am ..... but have never thought Rossi said ( or someone said Rossi said
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) that Rossi rode without any riders aids.

I do find his ( if it is him ) complaints about electronic aids .... hypocritical.


So, if a rider does not like the effect that rider aids have on the sport, then he shouldn't use them himself? Is this what you are saying?