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A TRUE CHAMPION...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 31 2006, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is what Mr. Shupe said on this question. “Of course there is a romanticism surrounding a racer who races hard no matter what, even if he risks crashing and losing the title. However, the rider doesn't do it alone. What about Nicky's crew? Should Nicky have raced for the win anyway and risk a crash, and possibly losing the title? Racing hard would have made Nicky look cool, but his crew would not have benefitted. Nicky's caution in preserving his title hopes was considerate to his crew's hard work (whether he was actually thinking about that or not). They want a championship too, you know.”

Now I could elaborate and expand for pages, but I think in this case, I will allow someone else to express it.

But I would like to add, if you review the video of the race, Hayden was the fastest man on the track just before Rossi crashed out. You can see this by the little red indicator next to the rider’s name. Moreover, at the moment that Rossi pressed too hard and crashed out, you can see that Hayden was positioned (poised/on the brink) of overtaking Bayliss. This to me indicates that he would have taken the lead and won the race had he needed to; however, simultaneously, due to Rossi’s crash, this was no longer a necessary risk. Furthermore, this was indicated to him by his pit board (who for all intents and purposes, represent his team). So, what I witnessed, is Hayden in complete control of his situation, and he did what a champion would do in this case, he proceeded to win the championship. That is a title, shared not only by Nicky as an individual, but by a plethora of others who have banked on the effort, as well as hopes, to be a world title holder. This is why racers, and other team sports, speak in the third person and use “we” to refer to themselves. But by no uncertain terms, Hayden was poised to win the race.

Others, on different threads have addressed this question, and perhaps more eloquently (as you see Mr. Shupe’s quote above), but if you are interested, you can read some of the other comments on the other threads regarding why Nicky had control to win but chose rather to win the championship.

(Perhaps this question deserves a new thread topic, in respect to the person who started this thread, I'm not trying to change the subject, but, I was asked.)
This was the question.
think you have just hit the nail on the head as to the reason why, perhaps, and this is only my own opinion, and that is if vale had of been in nicky's position with hayden down, he would have still went for the win. and how the public percieve this may be to see rossi as a battler to the very end, were as, and i believe we have seen it through out the year, nicky maybe backing off and being a little conservative, which to be fair has paid off for him this year due to vales dnf's. But i suppose it all depends on your own perspective?
what do you think!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sb248 @ Oct 31 2006, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>think you have just hit the nail on the head as to the reason why, perhaps, and this is only my own opinion, and that is if vale had of been in nicky's position with hayden down, he would have still went for the win. and how the public percieve this may be to see rossi as a battler to the very end, were as, and i believe we have seen it through out the year, nicky maybe backing off and being a little conservative, which to be fair has paid off for him this year due to vales dnf's. But i suppose it all depends on your own perspective?
what do you think!

I respectfully disagree. I've seen Rossi sand bag it before.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Oct 31 2006, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>...if Yamaha can get the 800 on the pace, (and lets remember the big H are good at developing new bikes, and influencing rule changes) then there is plenty more from the Doctor! Role on 2007

Pete

I am pretty excited about Yamaha's 800. Remember, they have Rossi and Burgess working on it from the ground up this time. They are not coming in two years into the bike's life-span.

More on the 800s, I really really hope Suzuki gets it right. I want to see what Hopkins can do on a competitive machine. Until his tires went, he was pretty racey at Turkey and Assen; Hopper also managed a good result at Shanghai. Has he ever had a competitive bike in GPs? I'm sure the WCM 500s were good bikes, but they were 500s and were being out-classed by the 4-strokes.
 
[quote name='Racejumkie' date='Oct 31 2006, 11:29 PM' post='35200']
Hayden was the fastest man on the track just before Rossi crashed out. You can see this by the little red indicator next to the rider’s name. Moreover, at the moment that Rossi pressed too hard and crashed out, you can see that Hayden was positioned (poised/on the brink) of overtaking Bayliss. This to me indicates that he would have taken the lead and won the race had he needed to; however, simultaneously, due to Rossi’s crash, this was no longer a necessary risk. Furthermore, this was indicated to him by his pit board (who for all intents and purposes, represent his team). So, what I witnessed, is Hayden in complete control of his situation, and he did what a champion would do in this case, he proceeded to win the championship. That is a title, shared not only by Nicky as an individual, but by a plethora of others who have banked on the effort, as well as hopes, to be a world title holder............ Nicky had control to win but chose rather to win the championship.


I - surprisingly - agree with MOST of that.

the "This to me indicates that he would have taken the lead and won the race had he needed to....." bit is a bit speculative - but we'll never know.

the 'stones' had been a far better tyre at valencia and bayliss was pretty much on it for the whole race so I still think he would have won BUT i dare
say Hayden would have made a much better race of it - had he needed to.

In Haydens position - I would have done exactly the same thing.

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CaptainSnow @ Oct 31 2006, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you spelled rider wrong deuche bag AL

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Oct 31 2006, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You spelled ...... wrong.
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Shupe got you there hector
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Hayden didn't need to win, maybe he is a philanthropist? Who cares, he won the WC that's all that matters.

Oh and Rossi, what a great sportsman and a gracious runner up! That's why he is much loved.

Liz
 
Baldylocks,

I said: "This to me indicates that he would have taken the lead and won the race had he needed to....." You said in response: “bit is a bit speculative - but we'll never know.”

Yup, your right, we are speculating. However, when we "speculate" we give evidence to support and validate the speculation. So here is a little more to support that Hayden was in "complete control". I noticed that about 17 laps to go, Hayden's board said Rossi had climbed positions. Hayden's reaction was to pull up to Loris and positioned himself poised to overtake the second spot if needed. (The race commentator also noted this). Realizing what was happening, his pit indicated that position 3 was "ok". You see Hayden's reaction to this as he pulled back a bit. Does this sequence of events seem to indicate anything other than a racer in complete control of his situation? To me it does, it indicates that he was in control enough to move up positions at will, including the P1.

(Now for the funny part) I noted that Rossi said he didn’t think Hayden would win the race anyway on his “gracious” interview. I said I doubted that. (Being funny here Rossi fans, so don’t get all bent out of shape.) I can see why Rossi would say that since his view of the race was blurred and interrupted by a sudden meeting of ...-fault and was buzy redecorating his bike with some road-rash as Hayden was racing for the championship.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l13eaw @ Nov 1 2006, 03:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden didn't need to win, maybe he is a philanthropist?

Actually, he is. He has given much to charity.

(Including a much needed vacation to the former champ).
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Nov 1 2006, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually, he is. He has given much to charity.

(Including a much needed vacation to the former champ).


Very good. You made me smile/ laugh
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He is a nice guy, no question!

Liz
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l13eaw @ Nov 1 2006, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Very good. You made me smile/ laugh
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He is a nice guy, no question!

Liz

and his sister has a great pair of........................................eyes.
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great interview from rossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>so - why didn't he win then ?

if rossi was behind nicky i believe Nicky would have done a toni elias at valencia,nothing to lose but everything to gain. It was a good call that he didn't push it more than he needed.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rossifan @ Nov 1 2006, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>great interview from rossi.



if rossi was behind nicky i believe Nicky would have done a toni elias at valencia,nothing to lose but everything to gain. It was a good call that he didn't push it more than he needed.

Completely agree. He was gonna "win or crash trying" is what he said.
 
jumkie -

i don't disagree that hayden knew what he was doing and rode a sensible race - he did the smart thing and played it safe. he responded when he had to and backed off once he was 'safe'. i would have done the same thing.

what i am saying is - i don't think hayden would have won - not because i don't rate the guy - i just think bayliss was on better tyres and was riding out of his skin.

for me - the ideal end to the race - REGARDLESS OF THE RESULT - would have been for Hayden & Pedrosa & Rossi to be mixing it up at the front. i wouldn't care who won - cos it would have been a great race

the whole 'win or crash trying' do or die type of mentality generally results in a crash IMHO and that's what i THINK would have happened to either Pedrosa (trying to get between Nicky & Vale) or Nicky trying to get someone between himself and rossi.

Rossi had a far easier job to do but - in the end - he wasn't upto it and Nicky was. GAME OVER

pure speculation i admit - just my 2p worth

i'm sure we can agree to disagree
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Nov 1 2006, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i'm sure we can agree to disagree

Yup, I appreciate your well thought out response. (unlike the other people on other threads that reply with stuff like: "paranoid")

Ha ha, good one.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Nov 1 2006, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yup, I appreciate your well thought out response. (unlike the other people on other threads that reply with stuff like: "paranoid")

Ha ha, good one.
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yeah very droll

just don't think that because there are a lot of rossi fans on here (yes there's a lot of ..... gets written - some of it by me) that everyone is out to get americans/hayden fans.

when i said 'paranoid' it's cos you bite every time mate and the trolls will throw you a bone every chance they get.

you stupid doughnut eating tosser


















i'm joking
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i'll get my coat
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Nov 1 2006, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yup, I appreciate your well thought out response. (unlike the other people on other threads that reply with stuff like: "paranoid")

Ha ha, good one.
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hi
i do believe he rode smart but still would have loved to see him and vale really at it, pistols at dawn sort of thing

who do you think would win?
or is that a silly qyestion
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Nov 1 2006, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yeah very droll

just don't think that because there are a lot of rossi fans on here (yes there's a lot of ..... gets written - some of it by me) that everyone is out to get americans/hayden fans.

when i said 'paranoid' it's cos you bite every time mate and the trolls will throw you a bone every chance they get.

you stupid doughnut eating tosser
i'm joking
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i'll get my coat
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fbi will be at your door wondering why you think yanks are donought eating tossers.
a spell in qautanamo bay will sort you out my boy
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Nov 1 2006, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you stupid doughnut eating tosser

I likie da doughnut man.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sb248 @ Nov 1 2006, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>who do you think would win?
or is that a silly qyestion

Silly rabbit, Yamix are for kids. Hayden 9 times out of 10 of course. After all he's on the greatest bike on the planet. (Honda said so and I'm programmed to believe it.)
 

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