900cc Ducati for 2012?

Interesting READ.



Its amazing how complex GP rules make the factories employ un-institutive solutions.

The spleander of the 500 era...Amen to that!!

We have never believed in multiple sets of rules for the same category. If they ever work to begin with, they don't work for very long (as Superbike has shown us). Give us a clear set of regulations, equal for everyone, and KEEP THEM CONSTANT.

the article puts fuel forward as an argument to why it may be no use to explore what is possible with a 1000cc



but from what i know combustion chambers between 400cc and 500cc are ideal (at according to my uncle who works at bmw and knows his stuff when it comes to cars at least)





maybe this could very well be the chance for ducati to finally use a big twin?

just the thought of 1000cc twins against 750s four cylinders gives me goose bumps

wait didn't we have that one already?





edit : isn't there some wild speculation going on about ducatis next superbike?its supposed to be a extremely high reving v-twin with a larger bore (!) than the current models.

maybe the thought of a 1000cc twin in motogp isn't that crazy

cheers for the link jumkie



there was an article a few months back about ducati considering a 900 or a 930cc

I tried to raise interest in this a few weeks ago...........I suppose we`re a bit stuck until all the `tech` filters thru to whet our appetite.

With a bore limit of 81mm (= a physical way of limiting max rpm as opposed to a rev limiter) and a fuel limit at 21 liters, they could have done without the capacity limitation of 1000cc which becomes redundant as the other constraints almost mathematically impose a smaller capacity of around 900cc.



Maybe the 1000cc limit is meant to define the CRT (Moto1) bikes. In other words, engines will either be pure prototypes (4 cyl., 900cc, 81mm bore, 21 liters, 6 engines per year) or 1000cc (4 cyl., stock-derived 1000cc, 24 liters, 12 engines per year).



Ducati also have a 'stock' bike, the Desmosedici RR (the street-legal replica of their 2006 MotoGP proto), that could provide a very good engine for Moto1

J4rn0 said:

Ducati also have a 'stock' bike, the Desmosedici RR (the street-legal replica of their 2006 MotoGP proto), that could provide a very good engine for Moto1

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Unfortunately, the Desmosedici RR has a bore of 86mm, which automatically disqualifies it. The BMW has a bore of 81mm, which is why Suter is using it for his Moto1 prototype.

Kropotkin said:

Unfortunately, the Desmosedici RR has a bore of 86mm, which automatically disqualifies it. The BMW has a bore of 81mm, which is why Suter is using it for his Moto1 prototype.

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Too bad. Even the Desmo16 RR is too extreme for the new formula, it seems.

Probably the 81 mm pistons will kill the advantage of pneumatic valves and desmo?

J4rn0 said:

Too bad. Even the Desmo16 RR is too extreme for the new formula, it seems.

Probably the 81 mm pistons will kill the advantage of pneumatic valves and desmo?

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That's the aim of them, at least for the larger capacity engines. If, say, Ducati decide to run a 900cc bike instead of 1000, the larger bore/stroke ratio (stroke being shorter) will allow them to rev higher, and gain more advantage from the desmo valves. However, the one advantage that both desmo and pneumatic valves retain is the lack of force required to open the valves. A steel spring needs force to compress it, and this is one area of power loss. No work is lost opening valves using desmo action, and pneumatic valves use compressed air from an external bottle, so they place no load on an engine either. That's a small advantage both systems retain. Indeed, I've heard people say that you could turn a desmo engine over by hand, something that is impossible with a steel spring engine due to the force required to compress the valve springs.

Kropotkin said:

That's the aim of them, at least for the larger capacity engines. If, say, Ducati decide to run a 900cc bike instead of 1000, the larger bore/stroke ratio (stroke being shorter) will allow them to rev higher, and gain more advantage from the desmo valves. However, the one advantage that both desmo and pneumatic valves retain is the lack of force required to open the valves. A steel spring needs force to compress it, and this is one area of power loss. No work is lost opening valves using desmo action, and pneumatic valves use compressed air from an external bottle, so they place no load on an engine either. That's a small advantage both systems retain. Indeed, I've heard people say that you could turn a desmo engine over by hand, something that is impossible with a steel spring engine due to the force required to compress the valve springs.

Click to expand...

It's true, I've done it with my own hands (of course one has to remove the spark plugs first...)

Hell, they're serious about sub-liter motors. it's worse than I though.



I'm afraid Curve and others who have been talking up the 1000cc bikes are in for a big disappointment.



When I first head of the rule change, I assumed that the teams would run the full 1000cc, tweaking the fuel delivery as needed to squeeze the required mileage from the bike. I hoped (somewhat foolishly) that fuel management (raw efficiency) would have advanced to the point that they'd be able to run a rich mix when coming out of the corners (as soon as they weren't wheelie limited), to give them more oomph and grunt. Once the bikes got halfway down the straight, the system would kick in and reduce top speed as needed. This might have allowed riders to take alternate lines, and ride the bikes in a slightly more superbike-like manner.



As it turns out, the asinine fuel limit will make the liter (or whatever) bikes no better than the 800s. There will be no powerslides, no wheel spin, no 'square-it-off-and-squirt' riding - all of these activities waste too much gas. All the riders will still be stuck riding the same maximum-energy line through the corners, 250 style. All the 1000cc change will accomplish is to waste factory money redesigning the engine.



The 800s already make more than enough power. With the right gearing, there is enough rear-wheel torque to slide and slither all over the track. (Remember, the transmission is a torque multiplier!) At the moment, the chassis and electronics are tuned for maximum fuel efficiency. With some adjustments and tweaks, 800s could be ridden just like the old 990 monsters we all miss. All the powers-that-be had to do to greatly improve the show was to give the bikes another 2~3 liters of gas. I guess that was just too simple.