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2024 World Superbike - Estoril

I’m not going to throw a spoiler but anyone on here that can access the final race of the BSB season at Brands Hatch should do! You couldn’t wish for more from a bike race than 2 guys in a winner takes all titanic battle! Simply awesome! Congrats to the winner, very very well deserved. 🙌
 
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Faz said:
I’m not going to throw a spoiler but anyone on here that can access the final race of the BSB season at Brands Hatch should do! You couldn’t wish for more from a bike race than 2 guys in a winner takes all titanic battle! Simply awesome! Congrats to the winner, very very well deserved. 🙌
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One of the best races I’ve ever seen! My hands were shaking at the end 😂
 
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Was it last year's championship that also came down to the final race?

Toprak truly amazing in that second race. Thought Aruba missed a trick by not having Bautista give way for Bulega early doors.

Good to see both Yamaha and Honda being more competitive than at the start of the season.

Shame that Montella didn't want to keep the pressure on Huertas. He has had an unforced error too many this season.

Exciting racing from the ladies as well. Last round to decide the first championship. Good script
 
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Saffa said:
One of the best races I’ve ever seen! My hands were shaking at the end 😂
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First time I’ve ever had to remind myself to breathe! 🤣
Thought the losers post race comments were pure class as well.
 
Superpole race was incredible, even if the ending was a bit predictable. Ducati setup their bikes to have max traction and launch out of the last turn. They also seem to have a bit more power, even after the fuel flow regulations, though technically they are not in effect yet, and Ducati might be turning up the wick when it suits them. Anyway, Bulega was in the perfect spot to outdrag Toprak to the line.

Race 2 was a snooze fest, though it's still impressive to see Toprak ride the BMW so much faster than his teammates and the rest of the grid. Despite the middling performance of the other BMW riders, I hope the SBKC get the concessions points figured out, and some of BMW's superconcessions are revoked. Bulega did well to avoid the clinch. Toprak just needs to stay healthy at Jerez and pick up a few points to win the championship!

Regarding BSB, I'd heard this season was quite close. A couple of years ago, one of my online motorsport services actually carried BSB, but stopped. It's nearly impossible to watch BSB in the US. Even with a VPN it's still a mess. Hopefully, MSVR will get their global media sorted.
 
Back to that BSB grand finale for a second: That reminded me of the last couple of laps of that Hockenheim 500 race with Schwantz and Rainey.

That kind of action is the reason we watch motorbike racing. At least that is why I do.

We all know MotoGP is heading to F1 performance, where the ordinary mortal cannot discern what is actually happening without a degree in engineering and reading the tea leaves of paddock comments before and after the race. My interest in that is frozen in time with Cameron's Sportbike Performance Handbook, when I was trying to eke out a few .10's here and there on race weekends at Willow Springs in the late 90's. Sure, the modern bikes are faster. BUT, as of the last few races, I have officially lost interest in this series. I have the MotoGP feed yet I cannot be bothered to actually watch an entire race, just like I cannot be bothered to go watch a parade in my home town. The few seconds here and there that ARE actually exciting just aren't worth it. I still look at the results and comments on this forum and I really want Martin to win the championship this year but life will go on if he doesn't.

Unless somebody like Martin or Acosta really challenges the Ducati machine, next year I plan on canceling my MotoGP feed and following the American Flat Track series, I think it looks promising.

Edit, just noticed this is in a WSB thread, my comments pertain to MotoGP. I REALLY lost interest in WSB a long time ago. Even Toprak cannot get me to subscribe and watch that.
 
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Bern1 said:
Back to that BSB grand finale for a second: That reminded me of the last couple of laps of that Hockenheim 500 race with Schwantz and Rainey.

That kind of action is the reason we watch motorbike racing. At least that is why I do.

We all know MotoGP is heading to F1 performance, where the ordinary mortal cannot discern what is actually happening without a degree in engineering and reading the tea leaves of paddock comments before and after the race. My interest in that is frozen in time with Cameron's Sportbike Performance Handbook, when I was trying to eke out a few .10's here and there on race weekends at Willow Springs in the late 90's. Sure, the modern bikes are faster. BUT, as of the last few races, I have officially lost interest in this series. I have the MotoGP feed yet I cannot be bothered to actually watch an entire race, just like I cannot be bothered to go watch a parade in my home town. The few seconds here and there that ARE actually exciting just aren't worth it. I still look at the results and comments on this forum and I really want Martin to win the championship this year but life will go on if he doesn't.

Unless somebody like Martin or Acosta really challenges the Ducati machine, next year I plan on canceling my MotoGP feed and following the American Flat Track series, I think it looks promising.

Edit, just noticed this is in a WSB thread, my comments pertain to MotoGP. I REALLY lost interest in WSB a long time ago. Even Toprak cannot get me to subscribe and watch that.
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Maybe you should do the flat track thing then. If someone like Toprak can’t get you to watch, then nothing will.
 
Bern1 said:
Back to that BSB grand finale for a second: That reminded me of the last couple of laps of that Hockenheim 500 race with Schwantz and Rainey.

That kind of action is the reason we watch motorbike racing. At least that is why I do.

We all know MotoGP is heading to F1 performance, where the ordinary mortal cannot discern what is actually happening without a degree in engineering and reading the tea leaves of paddock comments before and after the race. My interest in that is frozen in time with Cameron's Sportbike Performance Handbook, when I was trying to eke out a few .10's here and there on race weekends at Willow Springs in the late 90's. Sure, the modern bikes are faster. BUT, as of the last few races, I have officially lost interest in this series. I have the MotoGP feed yet I cannot be bothered to actually watch an entire race, just like I cannot be bothered to go watch a parade in my home town. The few seconds here and there that ARE actually exciting just aren't worth it. I still look at the results and comments on this forum and I really want Martin to win the championship this year but life will go on if he doesn't.

Unless somebody like Martin or Acosta really challenges the Ducati machine, next year I plan on canceling my MotoGP feed and following the American Flat Track series, I think it looks promising.

Edit, just noticed this is in a WSB thread, my comments pertain to MotoGP. I REALLY lost interest in WSB a long time ago. Even Toprak cannot get me to subscribe and watch that.
Click to expand...

If one of your primary interests is seeing the engineers squeeze another tenth from the bike, WSBK and WSSP may not have much to offer. The preoccupation of SBK is making everything equal so the riders determine the championship and the manufacturers can sell bikes to race professionals and road riding amateurs, rather than spending shareholder money at the track. The hilarity and tragedy is that balancing motorcycles is nearly impossible, and the teams always find time. Hilarious because you can't hold people down. Tragic because if SBK can't establish a legitimate raison d'etre and independent fanbase it will simply be folded into MotoGP. The more factory teams continue to play a role, the less likely it is that SBK will attract the race teams and media people it needs to survive.

Toprak is a good reason to watch WSBK. Like Ben Spies, he's a bit too big for MotoGP, but he is obviously an exceptional talent. It's too bad he doesn't race for Ducati. It would have been incredible to see him at the race of champions, challenging GP's best on equal machinery.
 
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mylexicon said:
If one of your primary interests is seeing the engineers squeeze another tenth from the bike, WSBK and WSSP may not have much to offer. The preoccupation of SBK is making everything equal so the riders determine the championship and the manufacturers can sell bikes to race professionals and road riding amateurs, rather than spending shareholder money at the track. The hilarity and tragedy is that balancing motorcycles is nearly impossible, and the teams always find time. Hilarious because you can't hold people down. Tragic because if SBK can't establish a legitimate raison d'etre and independent fanbase it will simply be folded into MotoGP. The more factory teams continue to play a role, the less likely it is that SBK will attract the race teams and media people it needs to survive.
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It's not easy to have close racing, as you allude to, someone or some team, might just find that little extra to be able to pull away. Then you'll need a rider that can compensate.

While the SBK might have been a Toprak show since he gelled with the BMW, the other classes have had plenty of close races. So if speed isn't relevant you have the new class where Carasco and Herrera battle it out every single time, or the SSP classes.

Moto3 is another good one, rarely not a good battle for the win.
 
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Sennas_Caress said:
It's not easy to have close racing, as you allude to, someone or some team, might just find that little extra to be able to pull away. Then you'll need a rider that can compensate.

While the SBK might have been a Toprak show since he gelled with the BMW, the other classes have had plenty of close races. So if speed isn't relevant you have the new class where Carasco and Herrera battle it out every single time, or the SSP classes.

Moto3 is another good one, rarely not a good battle for the win.
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That's a good shout! The WCR has been class.
 
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mylexicon said:
Toprak is a good reason to watch WSBK. Like Ben Spies, he's a bit too big for MotoGP, but he is obviously an exceptional talent. It's too bad he doesn't race for Ducati.
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According to Wiki Toprak is only 60mm taller than Pecco and Spies was 20mm taller than Pecco. Surely that can’t make a difference when you’ve got 200+ bhp under you or Dani would have won everything? Bautista looks like his size is an advantage but I also think a lot of that is down to the way the Ducati gets it’s drive.
 
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Faz said:
According to Wiki Toprak is only 60mm taller than Pecco and Spies was 20mm taller than Pecco. Surely that can’t make a difference when you’ve got 200+ bhp under you or Dani would have won everything? Bautista looks like his size is an advantage but I also think a lot of that is down to the way the Ducati gets it’s drive.
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Don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember that the issues with the physical differences between the riders are both weight and height, and that its also to do with the aerodynamics of the bike, not just the loss of weight. Weight does matter when you throw your body around, while the strength and endurance that is needed in the modern era, cue arm pump surgeries, makes it a balancing act of sorts.
 
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Yes you’re right if is a balancing act. Can still remember when shorter riders had problems with unwanted wheelies where a taller rider just had to lean more forward to alleviate it. The smaller guys had advantages with acceleration but the bigger riders could muscle the bike more in corners. But electronics have put all the balls in the smaller guys bag. That’s the beauty of watching the cream like Toprak, he shouldn’t be able to do what he does but he does it with such aplomb!
 
Faz said:
According to Wiki Toprak is only 60mm taller than Pecco and Spies was 20mm taller than Pecco. Surely that can’t make a difference when you’ve got 200+ bhp under you or Dani would have won everything? Bautista looks like his size is an advantage but I also think a lot of that is down to the way the Ducati gets it’s drive.
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Rider size is a moving target. The issue for Spies in the 800cc era was lack of low-end torque and poor aerodynamics. When the 1000cc rules were introduced, the manufacturers were preparing for the fuel cut to 20L in 2014.

The issue for Toprak at the moment is that ride height and aero neutralize his advantage in wheelie suppression and late braking. I think he would have been more competitive in the early-Michelin 1000cc era, but who knows. As you point out, Pecco is not short, but he's a two-time champion.

Being too small can also be a hindrance, especially since min weight has been rising. At tracks like Assen, it's difficult for smaller riders to get the bike from side to side. Pedrosa also famously had issues stressing the front Bridgestone enough to achieve operating temperature. His stature certainly didn't help in that regard.
 

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