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2021 Misano - Gran Premio Nolan del Made in Italy e dell'Emilia-Romagna

Keshav said:
I do believe I understand where it comes from. It's the whole Shogun feudal mentality. The wealthiest warlords who could convey the greatest status, were always the ones who attracted the deadliest and most talented samurai clans, allowing them to dominate all the lesser warlords. It wasn't that the Shogun made the best swords or smartest battle strategies, they just paid more money to hire the best employees.

I still maintain, that the whole rider-development thing is greatly (not entirely) exaggerated in the minds of us fans. I would love to be able to do an interview with a few riders to see what they say about this.
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Sure, most of their titles have been won by all time great riders. Whether Honda made them so is a different question, but 2 of them also won titles on Yamahas.

I also have my doubts about development both in general and by MM in particular, but my working hypothesis has been that Honda have been concentrating on their F1 effort and haven’t really done much with the motogp bike, and the engine in particular, which was likely designed around bespoke software they no longer have with the control ECU etc.

I am still more of a Casey Stoner fan than an MM fan, but to me those duels with Bagnaia while no doubt demonstrating Bagnaia’s quality also showed MM still has something special, having competitive whole lap pace despite the Ducati appearing to have the advantage in most respects.
 
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michaelm said:
Sure, most of their titles have been won by all time great riders. Whether Honda made them so is a different question, but 2 of them also won titles on Yamahas.



I also have my doubts about development both in general and by MM in particular, but my working hypothesis has been that Honda have been concentrating on their F1 effort and haven’t really done much with the motogp bike, and the engine in particular, which was likely designed around bespoke software they no longer have with the control ECU etc.



I am still more of a Casey Stoner fan than an MM fan, but to me those duels with Bagnaia while no doubt demonstrating Bagnaia’s quality also showed MM still has something special, having competitive whole lap pace despite the Ducati appearing to have the advantage in most respects.
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Not a bad working hypothesis.
 
michaelm said:
Sure, most of their titles have been won by all time great riders. Whether Honda made them so is a different question, but 2 of them also won titles on Yamahas.

I also have my doubts about development both in general and by MM in particular, but my working hypothesis has been that Honda have been concentrating on their F1 effort and haven’t really done much with the motogp bike, and the engine in particular, which was likely designed around bespoke software they no longer have with the control ECU etc.

I am still more of a Casey Stoner fan than an MM fan, but to me those duels with Bagnaia while no doubt demonstrating Bagnaia’s quality also showed MM still has something special, having competitive whole lap pace despite the Ducati appearing to have the advantage in most respects.
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Absolutely. The Ducati was (is) working so well now. I know the commentators were selling the idea that Marquez psyched Bagnaia into making a mistake, but I call ........ on that. Bagnaia was unshakeably confident. I blame the team’s decision to use that hard tire. On a soft or medium, he’d have kept MM behind him no problem.
 
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Keshav said:
Absolutely. The Ducati was (is) working so well now. I know the commentators were selling the idea that Marquez psyched Bagnaia into making a mistake, but I call ........ on that. Bagnaia was unshakeably confident. I blame the team’s decision to use that hard tire. On a soft or medium, he’d have kept MM behind him no problem.
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I disagree, I think Bagnaia got pressured into that mistake. They were 4-5 seconds down the road by that point which in this current era is a huge gap. I think when he was transitioning between corners he just overloaded the front and the front did exactly what it does when its overloaded, give out.

I don't think there's any shame in it because he was riding a great race till that happened.
 
Keshav said:
Absolutely. The Ducati was (is) working so well now. I know the commentators were selling the idea that Marquez psyched Bagnaia into making a mistake, but I call ........ on that. Bagnaia was unshakeably confident. I blame the team’s decision to use that hard tire. On a soft or medium, he’d have kept MM behind him no problem.
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It was something of an error of judgement imo. MM himself said post race he was about to settle for second. He put the bike down the road just after he made the push to get the gap out to over a second. He didn’t need to do this, it is very hard for MM to make a pass stick on the Ducati as their last duel demonstrated. I think he was pushing though.
 
I think Bagnaia was pushing a little harder as he was expecting a Marquez effort to pass him at the end of the race, which was coming right up. Another awesome psych job by Marquez.
 
Keshav said:
Oh, and I forgot, Bastinini was really something on that two-year-old bike. Haven't followed all the silly season developments. Will the kid get a newer bike next year?
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He's going to Gresini and will stay on a customer Ducati. Not sure if it will be a year old or 2 year old model though.

Repsol Honda:
Marc Marquez (End of 2024)
Pol Espargaro (End of 2022)

Monster Yamaha:
Franco Morbidelli (End of 2023)
Fabio Quartararo (End of 2022)

Lenovo Ducati:
Jack Miller (End of 2022)
Francesco Bagnaia (End of 2022)

Suzuki:
Alex Rins (End of 2022)
Joan Mir (End of 2022)

Aprilia:
Aleix Espargaro (End of 2022)
Maverick Vinales (End of 2022)
Lorenzo Savadori (End of 2021)

Red Bull KTM:
Miguel Oliveira (End of 2022)
Brad Binder (End of 2024)

Independent Teams

Tech3 KTM:
Remy Gardner (KTM contract, end of 2022)*
Raul Fernandez (KTM contract, end of 2022)*

Gresini Ducati:
Fabio di Giannantonio (End of 2022)*
Enea Bastianini (End of 2022)

WithU RNF Yamaha Team:
Andrea Dovizioso (End of 2022, Yamaha contract)
Darryn Binder (Yamaha contract, end of 2022, option for 2023)
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Excited to see if Gardner’s talent will see him to the happening part of the party.
 
JPSLotus said:
I disagree, I think Bagnaia got pressured into that mistake. They were 4-5 seconds down the road by that point which in this current era is a huge gap. I think when he was transitioning between corners he just overloaded the front and the front did exactly what it does when its overloaded, give out.

I don't think there's any shame in it because he was riding a great race till that happened.
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Bern1 said:
I think Bagnaia was pushing a little harder as he was expecting a Marquez effort to pass him at the end of the race, which was coming right up. Another awesome psych job by Marquez.
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He certainly got pressured which forced him to up his pace and loose the front. He needs to work on his race strategy. He should have been looking at Marc pit board to see the distance of the 3rd place rider. Knowing that Pol was over 5 seconds behind Marc . All he had to do was let Marc passed, trailed him to the last 2 laps and use the ducati advantage.
 
Keshav said:
Excited to see if Gardner’s talent will see him to the happening part of the party.
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I haven't seen him race. We don't get moto2 here. It seems like Fernandez has had the better of him in the latter part of the season though?
 
warthog1 said:
I haven't seen him race. We don't get moto2 here. It seems like Fernandez has had the better of him in the latter part of the season though?
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Bummer. Yes, Fernandez has been on fire these last few races, but he did a Bagnaia at this last race, so Remy just needs to keep his head above water and not crash for the last two rounds. The last few years I'd only watched Moto 2 here and there until last year, when Gardner really caught on. The way he races really grabbed my attention.
 
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Watched the motoGP race again tonight.
I like Pecco.
He set there after crashing, took his helmet off in the face of the camera.
Head shake, frustration, disappointment, but determination.
The camera showed him again later. Jaw still clenched.
He was pissed, but he knows he has it and that makes him more pissed when he chucks it away.
Quality. [emoji41]
He is going to be good to watch going forward [emoji108]
 
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warthog1 said:
Watched the motoGP race again tonight.
I like Pecco.
He set there after crashing, took his helmet off in the face of the camera.
Head shake, frustration, disappointment, but determination.
The camera showed him again later. Jaw still clenched.
He was pissed, but he knows he has it and that makes him more pissed when he chucks it away.
Quality. [emoji41]
He is going to be good to watch going forward [emoji108]
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He's a huge talent. As a fan of the sport, I find his ability admirable. As a fan of the racers themselves, I find him hard to warm up to. The guy always seems so detached. It's a bit creepy. With a guy like Lorenzo or Stoner, you could tell what was going on. They were not clockwork racers.
 
Mrpurple said:
Bags seems too have ice water for blood, so I would blame the terrible tires.

Or a bad decision by the teams.
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Apparently Rossi kept telling Pecco to go medium/medium and Pecco listened to him the last time and won so maybe this was the teams's decision?
 
PRS717 said:
Apparently Rossi kept telling Pecco to go medium/medium and Pecco listened to him the last time and won so maybe this was the teams's decision?
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From Pecco's explanation, it seemed that it was his and the teams decision. He didn't like how the mediums felt in practice.
 
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Keshav said:
He's a huge talent. As a fan of the sport, I find his ability admirable. As a fan of the racers themselves, I find him hard to warm up to. The guy always seems so detached. It's a bit creepy. With a guy like Lorenzo or Stoner, you could tell what was going on. They were not clockwork racers.
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In recent interviews on BT Sports he’s come across as a really nice person and seems very thoughtful and intelligent.
Surely though mate, a man who keeps his nickname like he has, is bound to be a decent family loving guy.
 
yamfan said:
In recent interviews on BT Sports he’s come across as a really nice person and seems very thoughtful and intelligent.
Surely though mate, a man who keeps his nickname like he has, is bound to be a decent family loving guy.
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I personally like Pecco a lot. I find him to be a quiet type of personality and far from detached. He is very engaging and his emotions do show. He seems like just a very nice fellow. It's a joy to see someone with a personality like his being so quick and competitive in a wheel to wheel fight.
 
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misfit said:
I personally like Pecco a lot. I find him to be a quiet type of personality and far from detached. He is very engaging and his emotions do show. He seems like just a very nice fellow. It's a joy to see someone with a personality like his being so quick and competitive in a wheel to wheel fight.
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Much the same and for me, very importantly I see little by way of a seemingly large ego which I see in some of the others.

Pecco seems down to earth and not seeking the adulation that others seek and nor does he have an air of arrogance that he expects people to get out of his way.

May be my Aussie bias here but it is why I see him and Jack working well together as neither have large egos and nor do they have the seemingly self important attitude, but both are driven and emotional guys.
 
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Gaz said:
Much the same and for me, very importantly I see little by way of a seemingly large ego which I see in some of the others.

Pecco seems down to earth and not seeking the adulation that others seek and nor does he have an air of arrogance that he expects people to get out of his way.

May be my Aussie bias here but it is why I see him and Jack working well together as neither have large egos and nor do they have the seemingly self important attitude, but both are driven and emotional guys.
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Jack is turning into Ducati's dani pedrosa.
 

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