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2016 Supercross Round 1 in Anaheim

Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Round 1 was great. Good shuffle for the lead. Anderson must love to see Seeley ahead of him because it's just a matter of time.

I feel bad for Bubba, what might have been. Dude has zero luck. Trying to cut inside Dungey had nowhere to go. Initially I thought that was on Ryan but Mdub set me straight. Speaking of which, Canard takes Ryan high, crashes, comes back and takes a 2nd. Tomac repeatable 4th finish.


Barcia, hahaha
 
Round 1 was great. Good shuffle for the lead. Anderson must love to see Seeley ahead of him because it's just a matter of time.

I feel bad for Bubba, what might have been. Dude has zero luck. Trying to cut inside Dungey had nowhere to go. Initially I thought that was on Ryan but Mdub set me straight. Speaking of which, Canard takes Ryan high, crashes, comes back and takes a 2nd. Tomac repeatable 4th finish.


Barcia, hahaha

How can that not be Dungey's fault . He t boned a rider in the middle of a turn
 
How can that not be Dungey's fault . He t boned a rider in the middle of a turn
That was my initial thought too. Check it out again. Bubba cuts late into turn to try and square up ahead of lead rider, when he cuts Dungey is already committed into turn. Had Bubba stayed on his trajectory nothing happens. It was what we'd call a racing incident. Bubba's late decision and Dungey's trajectory converged.


Focus on James' last cut inside Anderson.






Either way, it's a hard call. Here is the key for me: I think Dungey had the space to square up with no contact if Bubba doesn't cut inside. That space was closed up by James' action. Unfortunate for James. I was pulling for him. Dungey we can say is not dirty.




Btw what's your opinion on Weston Peick? Me, I think 3 race ban. No less.
 
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I live under the rule that it is the passer's responsibility to make a clean pass. I know motorx is a different world of what's acceptable and what's not, but Stewart had the position by 3 bike lengths heading into that corner which to me means Stewart can take any line he wants. Dungey does not have a history and I'm not calling for any sanctions against him, but he took Stewart out and I would bet that he apologized to him after the race for doing so.
 
How can that not be Dungey's fault . He t boned a rider in the middle of a turn

Exactly. Are you kidding me Jum? If you blame Bubba for this I'm going to have to publicly question every assertion you make about GP going forward. Ryan had absolutely no fuking line. He bombed into that corner straight!
 
That was my initial thought too. Check it out again. Bubba cuts late into turn to try and square up ahead of lead rider, when he cuts Dungey is already committed into turn. Had Bubba stayed on his trajectory nothing happens. It was what we'd call a racing incident. Bubba's late decision and Dungey's trajectory converged.


Focus on James' last cut inside Anderson.






Either way, it's a hard call. Here is the key for me: I think Dungey had the space to square up with no contact if Bubba doesn't cut inside. That space was closed up by James' action. Unfortunate for James. I was pulling for him. Dungey we can say is not dirty.




Btw what's your opinion on Weston Peick? Me, I think 3 race ban. No less.


Oh for fuks sake man. How far back was Ryan? He had absolutely ample time to make that corner work. Where was he going? Look at his line. I hope that dude gets crushed this season by any means possible. Whatever it takes, he shouldn't have the #1 plate anyway, the dude is a hack. I'm going to watch every race this season just to see if someone takes his head off. Fingers crossed he doesn't finish the season.
 
Levi, you're gonna question my takes on GP because of a SX opinion? Haha

Question #1: Do you not see James cut back in to beat Anderson? Before you go on, answer that.

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Bro, my initial thought was Ryan soley to blame. But i changed my mind after watching replay. That's why I posted the video. Was Ryan supposed to know James would take the space inside Anderson which is where he (Bubba) cuts in and emerges? Yes, there was a CHANGE in Stewart's trajectory. I don't think you realize that if James doesn't do that Ryan makes no contact with him. Before you go ballistic, look at the video and specifically watch James. Forget about Ryan for a minute, just watch James change his line, cut inside Anderson. I'm not blaming James for doing something wrong, I'm explaining why the collision occurs. Along with that explanation, I'm asserting Ryan didn't do anything wrong. Both of these actions can coexist without either having done something 'wrong'.

1e5ade2d991a072078c2c691abd03bb4.jpg


Notice the distance between James and Anderson. Why did that space occur? If you compare pictures, you see that this distance between Anderson and James occurs because Bubba cuts severely inside. So severely in fact that you can see James shift all his weight and a slight bobble (look at the video). I'm not bullshiting you, it's a noticeable movement in body English because James is cutting in sharp and accelerating. Now in your mind's eye put James back behind Anderson. Do you think Ryan makes contact with James in that case? No way. In fact Ryan almost missed James (who was accelerating out of the way). If James is on the same line as Anderson that contact doesn't happen! This is SX/MX. UNLIKE roadracing where there is a very narrow optimal line. James decided to cut inside. The lines know as "lanes" in MX are various. Hence why you hear them say riders making "lane choices" (you don't hear that in GP do you?) You hear in GP saying a rider took a different "line" but that is narrow compared to the notion of "lanes" which can be exact opposites sides on a dirt track. Ryan's entry was viable and reasonable, of this there should be no doubt. Both took a calculated risk, neither was out of control. The only way this could have been avoided is if both read eachother's mind. The collision occurred because both went for a reasonable viable space! In a classic T-bone incident the guy T-boning has no business in that space. None.

Ryan's line appears to T-bone Bubba, and again, it was my first reaction. But all that changes when you realize that both James and Ryan went for that same space exactly at the same time. This is NOT like roadracing, bikes in MX can actually square up in very little space. In MX the rider can spin the back wheel (like a skid) and in less than a foot the bike can be facing another direction. I'm not saying it's James' or Ryan's "fault". Let me repeat that, I'm not saying it's James "fault". I am saying that both went for that same space in viable attempt. You're thinking Ryan's entry was not viable. I disagree, in fact Ryan nearly missed James (in real time). Those 2 meters James creates inside Anderson is what causes the collision, that's because James cuts inside of Anderson. I'm saying both went for the same space that's conceivable/viable in this type of racing. If James follows Anderson Ryan makes no contact. In SX those angles and lines are more variable than roadracing, which I think your judging this incident by. I do think it's a "racing incident" for SX/MX, not for Roadracing. If you want to blame Ryan for not predicting that James would cut inside Anderson, I'm fine with that. We can place blame on Ryan on that basis. But this was not a T-bone in the classic sense because the person getting T-boned turned into that space suddenly. Not when you consider James' sudden and absolutely observable CHANGE in trajectory mid turn.

Question #2: Who is making the pass attempt? View it another way, if Anderson is not in front of Stewart, do you think James makes that change in trajectory? Answer that.



You may say like Pov, all contact made by persons attempting a pass is the fault of the person attempting the pass. Ok, I'll buy that. However, who was attempting a pass here? James on Anderson? (If you say no, then we are not watching the same video.) Or Ryan on Stewart? I don't think Ryan was attempting a pass. James was attempting the pass there on Anderson. Ryan looks to be attempting to 'square up' on both of them INSIDE to come ALONG SIDE. That is, no pass attempt, but rather come along side both. And he would have probably done it if he would have had just the extra meter that unfortunately James took when he cut inside. I think all you're seeing is a T-bone, but you're not looking at why Bubba appears in that space. Stop looking at this incident through a GP lense. GP bikes cannot turn in as sharply as James did in attempt to accelerate ahead of the lead rider. GP bikes can't square up on a dime like Ryan could have done had he had the space that Bubba occupied (occupied because a MX bike can do that mid turn).

Now I'm not married to this opinion like i generally do other takes. I like them both, almost equally. Actually, im surprised you feel so strongly against Dungey. He is the Nicky of SX in terms of the nice guy. Of all the riders, he is probably the least aggressive by a margin. In fact both Emig and Carmichael have repeatedly criticize him for it. Both of which call for blood on the track much to my dismay. The one guy they repeatedly accuse of not being sanguine enough, not being forceful enough IS Dungey. Name me 1 rider less aggressive than Dungey. Just 1. I think you're ....... confusing Dungey for Chad Reed. Perhaps why you're hoping Ryan gets taken out.

Regardless, I feel bad for James. I really was looking forward to this season because he was back from his ........ suspension. James normally doesn't hold back (hence why he cut in under so sharply ) and his aggression is something to marvel. Though I know most of us have said often if the kid dialed it back just a hair he'd finish more. Again, not blaming him here for doing something rash, I'm simply explaining why I think Ryan wasn't undisputable blame worthy. If you blame Ryan, whatever, I can live with that. But I think the incident was something that is debatable, not as black and white given its SX (not to be confused with GP). Btw I also feel a sense of being robbed of Bubba's results given he was in the top 3, healthy, and with so much promise ahead.

So there are two questions above I ask to be answered. Your thoughts?
 
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Exactly. Are you kidding me Jum? If you blame Bubba for this I'm going to have to publicly question every assertion you make about GP going forward. Ryan had absolutely no fuking line. He bombed into that corner straight!

Agreed
 
It was an interesting start to the 2016 SX season.
How about Cooper Webb....North Carolina representing!
As far as the Dungey/Stewart contact....it's racing, .... happens. Let's hope Stewart can come back next week, doubtful he will pass concussion protocol though.
MMA bout between Peick/Friese....Friese has had that coming for a long time, Peick however should have waited till after the race and off camera to settle that, not good for your sponsers to pummel a guy on live TV.
 
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I knew you'd make an appearance. Agree about Dungey/Stewart, looks a lot worse than it was in regards to culpability. The mistake is to look at it through a GP lens. I think their helmets collided, Bubba was out before he hit ground. I'm also concerned he won't pass protocol for round 2. His championship is over.

Did u hear Emig say about Friese it was "deliberate"? Yet it "looked" way more benign than RD/JS. Anyway, I don't see how they won't give Peick a race ban. That gets settled off camera.

Btw Canard (who I also root for) taken Dungey way wide was worse I thought. Yet no issues.
 
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I knew you'd make an appearance. Agree about Dungey/Stewart, looks a lot worse than it was in regards to culpability. The mistake is to look at it through a GP lens. I think their helmets collided, Bubba was out before he hit ground. I'm also concerned he won't pass protocol for round 2. His championship is over.

Did u hear Emig say about Friese it was "deliberate"? Yet it "looked" way more benign than RD/JS. Anyway, I don't see how they won't give Peick a race ban. That gets settled off camera.

Btw Canard (who I also root for) taken Dungey way wide waa worse I thought. Yet no issues.

Canard has always been aggressive, and deliberate with his racecraft. He rides very old school. If we think back to just 10 to 15 years ago it was the norm to run your competitor high or block his line aggressively.
I think aggressive riding is coming back, there is too much money and too few good rides available now to be polite. Win or go home!
 
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Is it true that Dungey fans aren't go to the Oakland round now because they fear for their safety?
 
Anyone else think it was cool to have six different makes in the top 6? Granted the Husqvarna is really a KTM, but still cool nonethless.
 
It's gonna be a great season. 17 races 18 weeks, that's brutal. I was looking up what these guys make, way too little for what they do, not to mention the income they generate for the promotors.

Anybody see the preseason build up show? Jesus, all the adversity these guys go through is crazy. No way are they appreciated enough for what they do. I find myself rooting for all of them. (Well except Barcia and Reed, though I have to admit, I haven't seen too much of Bam Bam). Carmichael is god awful in the booth. Loved his racing, but when did he becomes such an .......? He is ok with riders riding dirty.
 
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I hate to say it, but Dungy's line had him on a collision corse, he had to know going into that corner that he was going to hit one of those bikes... that said I dont think thats the line he wanted, it could be that he landed that last jump in a poor position, and I do not recall him taking that line on that corner at any other time in the race.

Its great that supercross is back on, cant wait to see them live next month!!!
 
Alright man, I'll admit, I just saw the race last night because I was out of town. I was several drinks in when everything went down with Bubba. He was doing much better than I expected. I was really disappointed to see him knocked out. The guy has .... luck. So I mouthed off a bit. I also understood your earlier post to blame James and I realize after reading your last that you weren't claiming that.

I can see your point and I don't really have any reason to suspect Dungey of malice. I'm sober and over it now. We'll see how the season goes I suppose. I've never been a Dungey fan and frankly think the guy is overrated.

Friese had that coming of course. I don't think anyone disagrees but the penalty and fine handed out by the AMA against Peick is also unassailable. You can't do that. end/
 
Great read guys, agree with most of it except Dungey being a hack WTF.
Friese on the other hand is just very aggressive and sure, probably had it coming but ...., lets be alittle professional. ..
Sure Peick lost sponsors on that meltdown. What these guys do to prepare for war is insane...I wish every rider to be safe, alot of hormones turning into aggressive riding what else do you expect?
Win or go home, or atleast podium. ....Ryan didn't podium once last season.
he definitely has paid his dues
 

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