Your questions to James Ellison

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TopCat @ Mar 15 2006, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I used too think this was because it was like a two stroke university, as we know, strokers are a complete different breed [ I still miss em ],. but now that the Motogp are big fat fours I don't see why the move seems so different

the thing is the 990s are stil GP bikes. They rev high, with maxiumum torque produced very high in the rev range and max power produced not long after that, so although the are actually four strokes they'd feel like two strokes to ride.
Then there's the little thing like the Race bike shift pattern and stuff like that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Mar 14 2006, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the thing is the 990s are stil GP bikes. They rev high, with maxiumum torque produced very high in the rev range and max power produced not long after that, so although the are actually four strokes they'd feel like two strokes to ride.
Then there's the little thing like the Race bike shift pattern and stuff like that.


richo,. there ain't no 4stk ever gonna feel like a race 2stk,.....

just on a simialr note, was there ever anymore word about Aprilia producing that 1000cc 2 stroke, u know the one where they used Direct injection to clean up emissions etc

apart from that, I suppose this would suffice
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51426

I think you'd be surpirsed. Only a handful of racers have ever ridden a 990. Read the spec sheet and you'd swear they were 2 strokes. It's not impossible. You give HRC a few million and I'm sure they could build a four stroke that feels like a 2 stroke. As a matter of fact, they did
Yeah 990s are a world apart from 500s. But I still think they'd have that GP feel. Otherwise SBK riders would make more of an impact in motoGP.

I disagree, the step between a 250cc 2st and a MotoGP is much bigger than between an SBK and a MotoGP.
I think 250cc fare better because they have more talented riders than SBK (overall).

I don't think so. I mean, I can't see how that's nearly Always the case. I mean, in the past guys like Doohan and Lawson have come off Superbikes and been sucessful, but you can't say the SBK grid is less talented than the 250 grid. And even if that was the case, there'd be more exceptions for talented Superbike riders. I don't buy it. There's gotta be somthing that makes the jump easier for a 250 rider than an SBK rider. Somthing siginificant, not just somthing like "They know the tracks".
Maybe it's the age. A lot of Superbikers who come to GP are former champions with a few years on 'em. Probably avereage 30 years old, right? Most of the 250 guys come up in their early 20's. They're still young'uns and you know what they say about teaching an old dog new tricks. Hayden came to GP young, and he's doing Ok now, but it's taken a few years.
Or maybe it's the fact that 250's get more recognition from GP teams than SBK do, so they get more riders in the top class and hence a better chance of sucess. For example, look at DePuniet, Who could you compare him to in SBK in terms of performance last year? JT? JT probably did better in SBK than DePu did in n 250, but what chance does he have of getting KRT's attention over DePuniet? I suspect a lot of GP teams only look at 250 riders when they want rookies. But that's just a theory.
I'm really baffled as to what it is that keeps SBK riders down in GP but there's no way I'm gonna belive that it's because 250 riders are more talented. Sure they got guys like Melandri, Rossi and Pedrosa, but I'm talking about overall. And I think overall they'd be about the same.

It's because MotoGP machines behave very similarly to 250cc machines. SBKs are big and heavy and require a point and shoot riding style compared to getting the most from a 250cc you need to carry huge amounts of corner speed. What has Colin Edwards been saying since the end of last season? He's revamped his riding style to mimic that of a 250 rider so he can get the most from his M1.

The weight difference between MGP and 250cc is bigger than between MGP and SBK.
Both MGP and SBK have 4 stroke engines with more or less similar behaviour. The 250cc engine behaviour is like: nothing...nothing...nothing...kicks your ...... nothing.

It's true that current tires in MotoGP are evolving to 250cc style, with more corner speed, but we've all seen Rossi and co. spinning their rear wheel coming out of corners sliding, that is nowhere near 250cc style, it's much more like SBK.

Ooost is right though (Big surprise) You can't really carry high corner speed on a SBK at all. It's not just the weight. The power to weight ratio also comes into it. And while that ratio may be similar on a 250 and a superbike, the Superbike's a lot heavier. I don't think its about being used to the weight or the power of the engine, you can pretty easily adapt to those things (Unless you're Dani Pedrosa) But High corner speeds would take a lot of getting used too.
Ooost, thanks for backin me up, mate. I was begining to think I was the only person on this forum who really loves SBK.

I love SBKs too, they're just different from GP which makes it hard for those riders to make the jump. It's unfortunate really because the breeding ground in the US, UK and Aus seems to be in SBKs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Mar 16 2006, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I love SBKs too, they're just different from GP which makes it hard for those riders to make the jump. It's unfortunate really because the breeding ground in the US, UK and Aus seems to be in SBKs.

And then ! to make things even simpler

you have guys that can jump on anything and go fast of the bat

Joey, Doohan, Swhantzer, Rainey, Gardener, Haslam, Joey.....


Did I mention Joey

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Mar 16 2006, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's unfortunate really because the breeding ground in the US, UK and Aus seems to be in SBKs.

So true.

I think it's because we got bigger balls and cheaper fuel, our sport riding communities in general aren't satisfied with tiny lil two strokes and scooters.
It's a cultural psychological thing. We need grunt. And muscle, and lots of it. I don't think Japan was targeting the domestic market with bikes like the Z1R, CBX1000, Katana 1100, FZR 1000 genesis, ZZR1100, CBR 1100, Hayabusa and ZX12R. They're American bikes. Therefore they're Australian bikes ect, due to similar culture. Open highways and "Bigger is better", "There's no replacement for displacement" psychology. Two things that aren't as prevalent in Europe and Japan. Dunno about the UK, it's just "Different".

One thing I think hinders US riders for sure, not sure about other countries, is that there is no single series to develop young riders. There are a few 250cc series but they are very small, although I've heard there is one that's just formed here with support from MotoGP so perhaps that will help. Besides that there are just local club series that race street bikes so there isn't much option unless a rider thinks he is good enough to move to a country and race two strokes there like Kurtis Roberts and Jason DiSalvo did for a time.

We have a 125GP here that tours with the SBK but I think there's about 8 bikes on the grid. And Last year's champion was 41 years old
Yeah, that's another thing. The minimum age is higher here, so unless you're like stoner's family and can afford to move to europe to race smaller bikes, youre better off staying in MX, waiting till you're 15 or whatever then start racing and work your way up to big bikes.