Yamahas woes

I don't think I'm more knowledgeable than anyone but the way i see it, Yamaha didn't seem to have any problems at the start of the year.
It was only when they tried to fix the problems that they didn't have, they ran into trouble.

No VSGs plain and simple.

Or

Zarco should replace rossi.

p4p1 said:

I thought it would be good to get opinions from those more knowledgeable than me about the Yamaha and their problems.

Yamaha are on their third version of the m1 this year and still haven't looked to make a dramatically improve their results. When Honda were having their issues it took probably two and a bit seasons to have them pretty much sorted. Will Yamaha be in the same boat? Or do they have the ability to fix the problem overnight but Vinales and Rossi just aren't that great at giving the feedback needed to fix the problem?

Is next year going to be another battle between Ducati and Honda while Yamaha scratch their heads and wonder why they can't fix the problem?

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I think its obvious that Rossi whining about the bike was due to Vinales getting the better of him in the 1st few races, so he wants a new bike and they bring out some old crock of crap that can be beaten by anyone on a half decent machine. Then they try the 3rd bike which again is no good but at least Rossi winds up in most cases in front of his team mate.
Looking at it like that and bearing in mind Vinales did quite well in 16 on a bike that was short on hp. I think they need to see what Vinales says and not rely on what Rossi wants, after all he's 15 years younger and certainly knows what suits him ie the 1st bike of 2017.

Yamaha hoes, I love them.

Straight from the horse's ... er mouth
Rossi:
"Maverick was fast and he continued to like [the bike]," said Rossi. "He is the guy with more points so I have to speak more about me, I am coming from another story.

"Maverick doesn't have any history with Yamaha before coming from Suzuki.

"He likes this because he thinks this is the Yamaha, but for me that I know more of the evolution of the bike I think with the 2017 version we lose something.

Vinales was perfectly happy with the 2017 M1 and the Michelin but since it didn't feel like Yamahas of the past, Rossi demanded everything be scrapped. Yamaha are ....... fools for throwing away a title or at the very least a serious title run, just to appease a guy who will never vie for another title. I would personally like to thank Rossi for almost assuredly handing Marquez the title. Since his revolt to have the Michelin front changed, Marc and Dovi have won 11 of the 12 races since, and both were seriously struggling up to that point. Thanks again champ.

povol said:

Straight from the horse's ... er mouth
Rossi:
"Maverick was fast and he continued to like [the bike]," said Rossi. "He is the guy with more points so I have to speak more about me, I am coming from another story.

"Maverick doesn't have any history with Yamaha before coming from Suzuki.

"He likes this because he thinks this is the Yamaha, but for me that I know more of the evolution of the bike I think with the 2017 version we lose something.

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Where's the link to this interview? It sounds like Rossi is blaming Maverick for the reverse direction of development.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Jumkie said:

Where's the link to this interview? It sounds like Rossi is blaming Maverick for the reverse direction of development.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

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What I hear him saying is, it doesn't matter if you are fast Maverick, this is not how the Yamaha should feel and what's important is MeMeMe. Trust me, when I get this bike the way I like it you will thank me. Wink wink

Thnx for posting JP, Pov, this is an old interview, not sure why its being discussed currently.

Anyway, I thought this quote was hilarious:

"He [Vinalez] likes this because he thinks this is the Yamaha, but for me that I know more of the evolution of the bike I think with the 2017 version we lose something."

How arrogant and disconnected can Rossi be? Vinalez "thinks this is the Yamaha"? Uhm, no, its not the Yamaha Rossi? Newsflash mothatfukers, THIS IS the Yamaha YOU developed for 2017! It IS the Rossi Yamaha because Lorenzo was eliminated from the development picture. Rossi is acting like it was spawned from some unknown entity and appeared magically in the garage. Weak ... reporters. Vinalez doesn't know this bike isn't the Yamaha way Rossi declares, this bike is ...., well mothafukers you're the only one who told them to put it together this way.

It may be an old interview, but it is insightful regarding the direction of Yamaha development. It is virtually impossible to come to a different conclusion than Jums and Pov.
Looks like Yamaha is going to ride the Rossi train into the ground.
Smart thing to do would be to convince major sponsors to get on board with Zarco and put the pedal to the metal for the new generation of riders. Maybe have those new sponsors buy vr a nice gold watch and put him out to pasture with with a golden parachute .

Bern1 said:

Looks like Yamaha is going to ride the Rossi train into the ground.

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Yes they are.

Zarco can replace Rossi when he can sell more shirts and hats.

You guys really believe that Yamaha would intentionally screw a winning GP bike to please Rossi? Really, hate does make people blind, like jerk indulgence! Better be careful with both...

Vinales and Rossi have very different riding styles. Maverick is a point and shoot rider, Rossi is a corner speed rider (although he likes to combine that with hard trail braking, unlike Lorenzo).

So Vinales could be very fast with the understeering 2017 Yamaha thanks to his point and shoot technique. Not having any previous reference, he did not perceive any problem. But the problem of an understeering bike is that it is more likely to use the tires badly. The extent depends also on tracks of course, surface etc. and on the tires themselves.

So it is understandable that the problems with the understeering 2017 bike emerged in an unmistakeable way at a track like Jerez, for both Maverick and Valentino. Note that Vinales was still using his preferred frame and the "old" Michelin front at Jerez -- Michelin changed that only at Mugello.

Last but not least, Honda and Ducati made serious progress after the first three or four races, while Yamaha didn't. They got into a mess trying to sort out the understeering and the tire consumption, throwing a mix of modified frames and updated electronics at the problem, with limited success.

Michelin's own inconsistency of supply didn't help either. And that's about it.
I could understand someone saying that Yamaha's development suffered because of Lorenzo's departure (although I don't believe it as Forcada is still there), but the paranoid theories mooted in this tread are plain absurd.

Ah, by the way: Zarco said he hopes Yamaha will NOT give Tech3 those 2017 bike as they are now. He'd rather keep his 2016 model. Says something.

J4rn0 said:

You guys really believe that Yamaha would intentionally screw a winning GP bike to please Rossi? Really, hate does make people blind, like jerk indulgence! Better be careful with both...

Vinales and Rossi have very different riding styles. Maverick is a point and shoot rider, Rossi is a corner speed rider (although he likes to combine that with hard trail braking, unlike Lorenzo).

So Vinales could be very fast with the understeering 2017 Yamaha thanks to his point and shoot technique. Not having any previous reference, he did not perceive any problem. But the problem of an understeering bike is that it is more likely to use the tires badly. The extent depends also on tracks of course, surface etc. and on the tires themselves.

So it is understandable that the problems with the understeering 2017 bike emerged in an unmistakeable way at a track like Jerez, for both Maverick and Valentino. Note that Vinales was still using his preferred frame and the "old" Michelin front at Jerez -- Michelin changed that only at Mugello.

Last but not least, Honda and Ducati made serious progress after the first three or four races, while Yamaha didn't. They got into a mess trying to sort out the understeering and the tire consumption, throwing a mix of modified frames and updated electronics at the problem, with limited success.

Michelin's own inconsistency of supply didn't help either. And that's about it.
I could understand someone saying that Yamaha's development suffered because of Lorenzo's departure (although I don't believe it as Forcada is still there), but the paranoid theories mooted in this tread are plain absurd.

Ah, by the way: Zarco said he hopes Yamaha will NOT give Tech3 those 2017 bike as they are now. He'd rather keep his 2016 model. Says something.

Click to expand...

Certainly, something odd was going on within the factory garage. Viñales was the factory’s leading rider but he wasn’t getting what he wanted. Yamaha wouldn’t even allow him to reveal which chassis he was using. “They won’t let me tell you,” he said, looking more confused and demoralised than ever.

Although Viñales now complained mostly about acceleration traction and wheelspin, his rider coach Wilco Zeelenberg believes the change of front tyre was the season’s turning point. With the 06, “Maverick could do anything with the bike,”

As I’ve said all along, yes , Yamaha tossed a championship contending bike out the window when they backed Rossi’s revolt for a new front tire.

J4rn0 said:

You guys really believe that Yamaha would intentionally screw a winning GP bike to please Rossi? Really, hate does make people blind, like jerk indulgence! Better be careful with both...

Vinales and Rossi have very different riding styles. Maverick is a point and shoot rider, Rossi is a corner speed rider (although he likes to combine that with hard trail braking, unlike Lorenzo).

So Vinales could be very fast with the understeering 2017 Yamaha thanks to his point and shoot technique. Not having any previous reference, he did not perceive any problem. But the problem of an understeering bike is that it is more likely to use the tires badly. The extent depends also on tracks of course, surface etc. and on the tires themselves.

So it is understandable that the problems with the understeering 2017 bike emerged in an unmistakeable way at a track like Jerez, for both Maverick and Valentino. Note that Vinales was still using his preferred frame and the "old" Michelin front at Jerez -- Michelin changed that only at Mugello.

Last but not least, Honda and Ducati made serious progress after the first three or four races, while Yamaha didn't. They got into a mess trying to sort out the understeering and the tire consumption, throwing a mix of modified frames and updated electronics at the problem, with limited success.

Michelin's own inconsistency of supply didn't help either. And that's about it.
I could understand someone saying that Yamaha's development suffered because of Lorenzo's departure (although I don't believe it as Forcada is still there), but the paranoid theories mooted in this tread are plain absurd.

Ah, by the way: Zarco said he hopes Yamaha will NOT give Tech3 those 2017 bike as they are now. He'd rather keep his 2016 model. Says something.

Click to expand...

Uh J4Rn0, this is the team that chased a triple world champion out the door to Ducati because of Rossi. They would chase down a developmental dead end to please Rossi.

JPSLotus said:

Uh J4Rn0, this is the team that chased a triple world champion out the door to Ducati because of Rossi. They would chase down a developmental dead end to please Rossi.

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They didn't chase Lorenzo out., he chose to leave, Yamaha wanted him to stay.
Straight after Valencia is the start of Yamaha putting their bike right.

danski said:

They didn't chase Lorenzo out., he chose to leave, Yamaha wanted him to stay.

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They thought Rossi's feelings were more important than Lorenzo's championship.

So, having their rider win the championship was not the most important thing to them.

Not upsetting Rossi was more important.

#HatsAndTshirts

danski said:

They didn't chase Lorenzo out., he chose to leave, Yamaha wanted him to stay.
Straight after Valencia is the start of Yamaha putting their bike right.

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HAHAHA that's hilarious.

He chose to leave because of the toxic Yamaha environment that Rossi was allowed to perpetrate because Lin Jarvis and the rest of Yamaha have no spine. T-shirts and ratings mattered more to them than winning races. Now they are about to possibly have KTM breathing down their neck in 2018....well they would be guaranteed to if KTM can go find a top tier rider. If the rumors are true and KTM decides to go after Marquez for 2019, Yamaha may be in deep .... by that point. But anyhow that's getting ahead of ourselves.

Vinales is finding out that Yamaha will now do anything to appease Rossi including chasing down engineering dead ends at his expense. Rossi got all of his changes and managed to cripple Yamahahaha's entire season.

Development god?

Absolutely not.

2018 promises to be more of the same if they follow anymore of his legendary "direction". But one can only hope! I bet Maverick wishes he had stayed on the GSX-RR now.

J4rn0 said:

You guys really believe that Yamaha would intentionally screw a winning GP bike to please Rossi?

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No not intentionally, but rather unintended consequence of circling the wagon around Rossi. Big difference. But it's nice that you frame the debate in such a way: 'you think Yamaha would intentionally screw themselves?' Uhm that's not the premise at all.

J4rn0 said:

So Vinales could be very fast with the understeering 2017 Yamaha thanks to his point and shoot technique. Not having any previous reference, he did not perceive any problem.

Click to expand...

Haha, bro. I love it. This is a breathtaking statement, the sheer disconnected arrogance of it is fascinating; you don't even realize that its arrogant do you buddy? Listen to yourself, you concede Vinalez could be very fast on it, .... topped all the preseason tests and won the first two races Qatar, Argentina, and a third Le Mans to boot; BUT he didn't realize what a ...... bike it was because he was winning! He just didn't realize what a pig of a bike was under him, eh J4? He had no "previous reference" that the Yamaha was doomed! Holy ...., dude you got me rolling here.

Newsflash, it was designed with Rossi's input period. Therefore as logic goes, Mav took Rossi's 'flawed/doomed' bike and beat everybody with it UNTIL...Rossi started to whine, ....., complain it wasn't a winner, change this, change that, the tires don't work for me, the snowball started to roll.

J4rn0 said:

Last but not least, Honda and Ducati made serious progress after the first three or four races, while Yamaha didn't. They got into a mess trying to sort out the understeering and the tire consumption, throwing a mix of modified frames and updated electronics at the problem, with limited success.

Michelin's own inconsistency of supply didn't help either. And that's about it.
I could understand someone saying that Yamaha's development suffered because of Lorenzo's departure (although I don't believe it as Forcada is still there), but the paranoid theories mooted in this tread are plain absurd.

Click to expand...

........, Honda and Ducati suddenly started to make progress from the unintended consequences of Dorna's Mishitlin "democracy", specifically Marquez and Dovi's hard braking styles. The tire they reestated was a boom for these two riders (not their factories) a total unintended consequence of the tire coup they tried to introduce at Argentina. When Michelin were grilled about the possibilities of this tire showing up to COTA he was a forthcoming as a politician on camera. Gotta wonder why Vinalez crashed out of COTA and later said 'I can't really give you the reason, i will then get an email' (paraphrasing). What can't you tell us Mav? J4, eliminate these two (Marc/Dovi) wins, the results are their factories would have a grand total of ZERO wins, that's all you need to know about their machine's progress. But they don't compete in a bubble, and a flawed Honda is better than a flawed Ducati, and a flawed Yamaha can still win if those blue flags aren't waved like in Assen. Honda and Ducati didn't start developing the space shuttle buddy, because nobody other than these two have won on their respective machines! ...., if anything both Yamaha factory riders have been victorious this year unlike the other two manufactures that you claim developed their machines past Yamaha. The Mishitlin has far more to do with the ebbs and flows of Yamaha's development buddy, and its because they and Dorna were as usual, hard up to get Rossi back to winning...al all expense. We have no reference because Dorna staged a vote to rid the 06 tire for Rossi's, he gets his tire and is no better off, his teammate, who is on record against said tire tanks, their rival Honda is handed the championship.

You crack me up J4. I love to see you posting.

Jumkie said:

No not intentionally, but rather unintended consequence of circling the wagon around Rossi. Big difference. But it's nice that you frame the debate in such a way: 'you think Yamaha would intentionally screw themselves?' Uhm that's not the premise at all.




Haha, bro. I love it. This is a breathtaking statement, the sheer disconnected arrogance of it is fascinating; you don't even realize that its arrogant do you buddy? Listen to yourself, you concede Vinalez could be very fast on it, .... topped all the preseason tests and won the first two races Qatar, Argentina, and a third Le Mans to boot; BUT he didn't realize what a ...... bike it was because he was winning! He just didn't realize what a pig of a bike was under him, eh J4? He had no "previous reference" that the Yamaha was doomed! Holy ...., dude you got me rolling here.

Newsflash, it was designed with Rossi's input period. Therefore as logic goes, Mav took Rossi's 'flawed/doomed' bike and beat everybody with it UNTIL...Rossi started to whine, ....., complain it wasn't a winner, change this, change that, the tires don't work for me, the snowball started to roll.




........, Honda and Ducati suddenly started to make progress from the unintended consequences of Dorna's Mishitlin "democracy", specifically Marquez and Dovi's hard braking styles. The tire they reestated was a boom for these two riders (not their factories) a total unintended consequence of the tire coup they tried to introduce at Argentina. When Michelin were grilled about the possibilities of this tire showing up to COTA he was a forthcoming as a politician on camera. Gotta wonder why Vinalez crashed out of COTA and later said 'I can't really give you the reason, i will then get an email' (paraphrasing). What can't you tell us Mav? J4, eliminate these two (Marc/Dovi) wins, the results are their factories would have a grand total of ZERO wins, that's all you need to know about their machine's progress. But they don't compete in a bubble, and a flawed Honda is better than a flawed Ducati, and a flawed Yamaha can still win if those blue flags aren't waved like in Assen. Honda and Ducati didn't start developing the space shuttle buddy, because nobody other than these two have won on their respective machines! ...., if anything both Yamaha factory riders have been victorious this year unlike the other two manufactures that you claim developed their machines past Yamaha. The Mishitlin has far more to do with the ebbs and flows of Yamaha's development buddy, and its because they and Dorna were as usual, hard up to get Rossi back to winning...al all expense. We have no reference because Dorna staged a vote to rid the 06 tire for Rossi's, he gets his tire and is no better off, his teammate, who is on record against said tire tanks, their rival Honda is handed the championship.

You crack me up J4. I love to see you posting.

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I said the day they reintroduced the 70 that Rossi just handed the title to Marquez. I still believe it was Rossi’s intention to .... his runaway teammate and a shot in the dark that maybe it would turn the tide in his favor. Not for the championship, but to save him the embarrassment of trying to explain how some kid jumped on his baby and beat his ... to a pulp with it. Rossi knows by now that he simply cannot beat this lineup over a season so he dug deep into the playbook for a Hail Mary . Marquez intercepted it and ran it all the way back to probable title.