This is mostly to poke fun at BM who still doesn't believe the bikes computers know where they are on track. I can't link the article because I'm on my phone but it's on crash.net. Yamaha seems very intent on reclaiming the title and putting Honda back in it's place, they'll be introducing the next gen of electronics some time this season. This gonna be a fun year, thanks to all the changes.
Yamaha new electronics
- Thread starter hawkdriver
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Joined Oct 2006
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Your Mom's House
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south wales UK
the bikes know everything, where they are on track and ive also heard furuwasa say the bikes also learn details when they take every corner and run simulations to try and make better adjustments for the next lap as fuel goes down and tyres wear.
very clever machines
very clever machines
Joined Jun 2008
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USA
This is nothing new, maybe for yamaha. But this news broke back in 2006 right from out of HRC. This was when they were doing everything to land Pedrosa the title.
Joined Aug 2008
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Thailand
Uhhm, the part you're missing evo is the topic is "next generation" electronics. The '06 HRC electrickery is about 3 evolutions away from what was used at the end of the 800cc era. Yamaha is developing the the first evolution (being "evo9" you should get the idea!) of the 1000cc era.
Interesting exerts:
"For the next generation we need a more precise motorcycle model inside the computer and also how to actuate the engine or chassis more effectively. You have to reconsider these areas to make another step."
Another crucial factor will be to create a more intuitive relationship between rider and electronics.
"If a rider can believe in the bike, they can go faster," said Nakajima. "For example, the present traction control or wheelie control is sometimes disturbing the rider's control.
"They want to accelerate, but when the tyre starts to spin sometimes the ECU responds at the wrong moment, or in the wrong way. The timing and 'philosophy' of the control is very important. It is a very critical area."
and;
In pursuit of that goal, and in addition to the changes made for the present electronics, Yamaha has "changed the chassis rigidity. It looks not so different from the outside, but it is quite different in terms of the balance of the rigidity."
The question which begs asking, from my point of view: Is all this electronic development work at Yamaha going to have any benefit other than for this season? Spec ECU may be the way-of-the-world next season...
Interesting exerts:
"For the next generation we need a more precise motorcycle model inside the computer and also how to actuate the engine or chassis more effectively. You have to reconsider these areas to make another step."
Another crucial factor will be to create a more intuitive relationship between rider and electronics.
"If a rider can believe in the bike, they can go faster," said Nakajima. "For example, the present traction control or wheelie control is sometimes disturbing the rider's control.
"They want to accelerate, but when the tyre starts to spin sometimes the ECU responds at the wrong moment, or in the wrong way. The timing and 'philosophy' of the control is very important. It is a very critical area."
and;
In pursuit of that goal, and in addition to the changes made for the present electronics, Yamaha has "changed the chassis rigidity. It looks not so different from the outside, but it is quite different in terms of the balance of the rigidity."
The question which begs asking, from my point of view: Is all this electronic development work at Yamaha going to have any benefit other than for this season? Spec ECU may be the way-of-the-world next season...
Joined Jun 2007
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Norah Head
Where does it say they are mapping the track with a gyro sensor.
Hawk and Jumkie, you are crying at me without even knowing what they are taking about yet.
Show me where that article even remotely disagrees with me.
I'd agree with all I read in that article, accords 100% with me.
The prolem is that you have absolutely no idea of what they, or I am on about.
Thanks for the plus points
What rock have you been under Hawk! This is all old news.
Jumkie ........ well no ..... I know you know .... all about "techo" stuff, regardless of the fact that you've seen it before.
Joined Aug 2008
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Thailand
Although you are correct that Hawk's post has nothing to do with the very amusing gyro debate, the crash.net article is not old news. It is clearly outlining the direction of current developments Yamaha is working on (without giving us any REAL info!!).
Joined Jun 2007
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Norah Head
Joined Jun 2007
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Norah Head
With regard to Yamaha attempting to know which corner it was at ............. its old hat .........
Now ....... with regard to my advice recently that Yamaha should forget all that old school idea of mapping the track and make it more of a "live" system ( like even we old school techos were doing back in the 90's ) ................
Yammy guy ...... "Asked to explain the advantages of the new system, Nakajima explained that it would be more suited to the complexities of real world motorcycle dynamics."
Just as I am claiming fixing the Duc. can I now claim to be the impetus for Yamaha's new electronics system!! ??
I'm doing pretty good here
Now ....... with regard to my advice recently that Yamaha should forget all that old school idea of mapping the track and make it more of a "live" system ( like even we old school techos were doing back in the 90's ) ................
Yammy guy ...... "Asked to explain the advantages of the new system, Nakajima explained that it would be more suited to the complexities of real world motorcycle dynamics."
Just as I am claiming fixing the Duc. can I now claim to be the impetus for Yamaha's new electronics system!! ??
I'm doing pretty good here
Joined Aug 2008
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Thailand
Oh why did I forget and choose to engage the logic-challenged one?
In what leap of logic do you equate, "Yamaha should forget all that old school idea of mapping the track", with, "Nakajima explained that it would be more suited to the complexities of real world motorcycle dynamics"? Just wondering, although for the life of me I don't know why...
In what leap of logic do you equate, "Yamaha should forget all that old school idea of mapping the track", with, "Nakajima explained that it would be more suited to the complexities of real world motorcycle dynamics"? Just wondering, although for the life of me I don't know why...
Joined Jun 2007
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Norah Head
Cos relying on databases was a practice from back in the day when there were not ways of sensing and measuring the influences that the "fudge factors" stored in "mapped data". Nowadays they have sensors that can be read and attempts are made to understand the physics of the influence factor, hence equate it, and have it used "live" and interactively.
Mind you I have not been "in" that game now for some time so who knows ...... maybe they have gone back to the "fudge factor"days? . Maybe they have reinveted the laws of "physics" as Babel was suggesting ?
Doubt it though, I'd more think the guys doing it are pretty au fait with what the latest thing is, and would be pretty good techos
Mind you I have not been "in" that game now for some time so who knows ...... maybe they have gone back to the "fudge factor"days? . Maybe they have reinveted the laws of "physics" as Babel was suggesting ?
Doubt it though, I'd more think the guys doing it are pretty au fait with what the latest thing is, and would be pretty good techos
Joined Aug 2008
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Thailand
So I'm guessing you would disagree with the following statement:
In addition, Aprilia are using a race-proven [electronics] system, while Edwards is helping develop a system which is still relatively in its infancy. The amount of data available is key: the ability to test strategies against a database of existing data makes building models a much faster process. Aprilia has that data, Suter and Bosch do not.
In addition, Aprilia are using a race-proven [electronics] system, while Edwards is helping develop a system which is still relatively in its infancy. The amount of data available is key: the ability to test strategies against a database of existing data makes building models a much faster process. Aprilia has that data, Suter and Bosch do not.
Joined Jun 2007
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Norah Head
I would agree that you wrote that statement .............
is that what you want me to say?
Not sure WTF you are asking me here ......... that looks pretty vague info there? can you get a tad more specific?
In the meantime ............. can I add your name to the article I'm writing that declares that Babel, Hawk, Jumkie, Reg. etc ( and now Mick D ) have developed a system that uses a gyro sensor to map a GP racetrack ......... ?
It will include a final paragraph which clearly states that I think they are bullshitting and cannot do it .....
I'll go ahead and publish it if you like ...........
is that what you want me to say?
Not sure WTF you are asking me here ......... that looks pretty vague info there? can you get a tad more specific?
In the meantime ............. can I add your name to the article I'm writing that declares that Babel, Hawk, Jumkie, Reg. etc ( and now Mick D ) have developed a system that uses a gyro sensor to map a GP racetrack ......... ?
It will include a final paragraph which clearly states that I think they are bullshitting and cannot do it .....
I'll go ahead and publish it if you like ...........
Joined Aug 2008
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Thailand
Uhm... As is usual in this internet thingy underlining indicates a "clickable" link...
Joined Jun 2007
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Norah Head
And I assumed that since their is no real technical data in that link ............ you would understand that it is perhaps a bit nonsensical to expect me to even acquire an opinion ......... the "headline" is not really substantiated by much substance in that instance. I kinda expect to see say ......... data tables ( and accompanying equations operating on that table ) v's say a sensor and its operating equation ..... eg. for say intake air temp. ? or track temp even maybe?
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Your Mom's House
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USA
Mike D, my comment was for the OP "hawkdriver" & is comment. I quoted the wrong person. And yes............................. The only thing that remain constant is changes! Thus evo.
Joined Sep 2007
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here
In the meantime ............. can I add your name to the article I'm writing that declares that Babel, Hawk, Jumkie, Reg. etc ( and now Mick D ) have developed a system that uses a gyro sensor to map a GP racetrack ......... ?
It will include a final paragraph which clearly states that I think they are bullshitting and cannot do it .....
I'll go ahead and publish it if you like ...........
Barry, you are wrong. It can be done as I have explained with links before, it's just that GPS is cheaper than the software required to remove the drift from the gyros.
Take one accelerometer, 3 gryos (pitch, yaw, roll) and 2 tilt sensors (pitch & roll) a track map and the ability to zero the bike's position at the start/finish line and I can write software that will "map" the track enabling different engine maps per corner.
see http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_1101_new_rules_changes_for_motogp_and_world_superbike/index.html
excerpt:
Plus they map the track on Thursday using GPS on scooters, and incorporate that data into the existing maps they have. I even saw Yamaha techs at Aragon using a good old-fashioned distance wheel to measure the back straight and braking markers.
