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Will VR46 run Ducati's or Yamaha's in 2024?

#22

#22

Joined Oct 2008
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Even after making him an ambassador, it seems like VR's preference is still with Ducati, but only if they get more tech support and have a Pramac style relationship.

The big dilemma facing Valentino Rossi's MotoGP team in 2024

Of course it makes sense they want the more competitive bike. It seems like they will only accept the Yamaha if there is a big financial incentive. While I understand that, I find it laughable that the ambassador of a brand doesn't want to run the brand.
 
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Rossi's relationship with Ducati is convenient for now. Ducati is setting the pace and VR46 probably enjoys the Italian connection, but I'm not sure Rossi and his team can out muscle Pramac and Gresini in the pecking order. Plus, 2027 isn't that far away. The Japanese manufacturers seem to be dealing with a sense of disenfranchisement and malaise, but, if the GPC gets the new formula right, it's likely Honda and Yamaha will be resurgent, and Rossi can trade on his name. The issue, I guess, is that the Italians were deeply embedded at Yamaha in both World Superbike and Grand Prix, but that has changed. Brivio is gone from the GP paddock and Meregalli has moved from superbike to grand prix. Maybe Rossi is worried that his Italian sponsors will be reluctant to support a Japanese manufacturer, now that 2 Italian marques participate in the premier class.

Tough decision. Not sure VR46 can get it correct.
 
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I'm still not confident Yamaha will turn things around to the extent Honda likely will. As I've said before, they seem happy just to have 2 bikes on the grid and earn money selling merchandise through the VR46 association.

I definitely agree with you that Rossi wouldn't out muscle the other customer teams. Pramac has been with Ducati for over a decade, even in the bad times, their relationship is close. Likewise, Gresini seem to have a good relationship and if Marquez does as well as most of us hope next year, that will make it even stronger but I'm guessing they wouldn't be adverse to switching to another brand if the deal was favourable. Is there still any of the old Ducati management around? I would wonder if there is any sour grapes from Rossi's tenure.

I think the real loser from this would be the riders, specifically Bezzechi. At best, he may end up on a Yamaha he hopes comes good. At worst, he has blown his chances of a factory Ducati ride. It might be an apt destiny for a guy who has seemingly gone full send on the VR46 Koolaid.
 
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#22 said:
I'm still not confident Yamaha will turn things around to the extent Honda likely will. As I've said before, they seem happy just to have 2 bikes on the grid and earn money selling merchandise through the VR46 association.

I definitely agree with you that Rossi wouldn't out muscle the other customer teams. Pramac has been with Ducati for over a decade, even in the bad times, their relationship is close. Likewise, Gresini seem to have a good relationship and if Marquez does as well as most of us hope next year, that will make it even stronger but I'm guessing they wouldn't be adverse to switching to another brand if the deal was favourable. Is there still any of the old Ducati management around? I would wonder if there is any sour grapes from Rossi's tenure.

I think the real loser from this would be the riders, specifically Bezzechi. At best, he may end up on a Yamaha he hopes comes good. At worst, he has blown his chances of a factory Ducati ride. It might be an apt destiny for a guy who has seemingly gone full send on the VR46 Koolaid.
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It's possible that Yamaha are content to remain in a holding pattern. It's difficult to say because they jettisoned RNF, an organization that we now know had some issues over the prior 2-3 years getting its bills paid. While Dorna want each manufacturer to run 4 bikes, Dorna need competent teams more than they need to force someone into a deal with Yamaha. That could be the scenario VR46 are trying to avoid. They might be happy to make a deal with Yamaha, but if Ducati drops them, they don't want Papa Ezpelete arranging a shotgun wedding with another manufacturer.

Regarding the rider situation, it's nearly impossible to read the crystal ball because the winds of change have reached monsoon proportions. The formula will be overhauled for 2027, imo, and the younger Ezpeleta continually talks about the link between the tires and the entertainment value of MotoGP. Who will benefit from a new 850cc formula? I have no idea, especially without knowing the engine/fuel particulars. Plus, if Carlos takes the helm, and he actually believes tires are everything (F1 constructors made Bernie believe this, too), there is no telling how a whirlwind of bad ideas will pan out. It's also possible that tires could be everything in MotoGP, and harder compounds that take longer to reach temperature and provide less overall grip could be the golden ticket. Who knows?

It this point, Bezzechi could end up on a Nastro Azzurro VR46 Yamaha in 2027, and take an easy riders WC. Nothing would surprise me.
 
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Sponsors like to see their marketing make it to the TV camera's. In 2023 both of the VR46 riders got TV coverage, be it making the podium or been in the B group
 
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mylexicon said:
It's possible that Yamaha are content to remain in a holding pattern. It's difficult to say because they jettisoned RNF, an organization that we now know had some issues over the prior 2-3 years getting its bills paid. While Dorna want each manufacturer to run 4 bikes, Dorna need competent teams more than they need to force someone into a deal with Yamaha. That could be the scenario VR46 are trying to avoid. They might be happy to make a deal with Yamaha, but if Ducati drops them, they don't want Papa Ezpelete arranging a shotgun wedding with another manufacturer.

Regarding the rider situation, it's nearly impossible to read the crystal ball because the winds of change have reached monsoon proportions. The formula will be overhauled for 2027, imo, and the younger Ezpeleta continually talks about the link between the tires and the entertainment value of MotoGP. Who will benefit from a new 850cc formula? I have no idea, especially without knowing the engine/fuel particulars. Plus, if Carlos takes the helm, and he actually believes tires are everything (F1 constructors made Bernie believe this, too), there is no telling how a whirlwind of bad ideas will pan out. It's also possible that tires could be everything in MotoGP, and harder compounds that take longer to reach temperature and provide less overall grip could be the golden ticket. Who knows?

It this point, Bezzechi could end up on a Nastro Azzurro VR46 Yamaha in 2027, and take an easy riders WC. Nothing would surprise me.
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Perhaps they should synchronise the actions of their right and left hands. If less tire grip is the answer to anything perhaps they haven’t noticed but the manufacturers, particularly Ducati, have been frantically trying to increase grip with aerodynamics and ride height devices etc. Close racing presumably also involves both being able to pass and a significant proportion of the field staying on their bikes, and the current paradigm seems to militate against both, with also a related problem of riders being sufficiently healthy to start a race weekend.

I thought the time of change in the formula was already set, although I have been mainly informed by you regarding same..
 
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michaelm said:
Perhaps they should synchronise the actions of their right and left hands. If less tire grip is the answer to anything perhaps they haven’t noticed but the manufacturers, particularly Ducati, have been frantically trying to increase grip with aerodynamics and ride height devices etc. Close racing presumably also involves both being able to pass and a significant proportion of the field staying on their bikes, and the current paradigm seems to militate against both, with also a related problem of riders being sufficiently healthy to start a race weekend.

I thought the time of change in the formula was already set, although I have been mainly informed by you regarding same..
Click to expand...

Ceteris paribus the current formula will sunset at the conclusion of 2026. The MSMA members who've gone on record insist sweeping changes are on the way, and Dorna claims they will not pay for another 5 years of status quo, but, to public knowledge, nothing binding has been signed for 2027. Hope for the best, prepare for mediocrity and half measures hah.

Hopefully, Carlos Ezpeleta will be proven correct regarding control tire management. His idea seems sound on its face, but F1 convinced Bernie that tires were everything, and despite reintroducing the artifice of tire wear, F1's sporting credentials were not restored. In MotoGP, aero and ride height allow the engineers to control the coefficient of friction at the front and rear. The rider's job is to reach the limit of tire locking. To give riders more control, and to restore offsetting setup strategies, I think it will take more than tires, but maybe Dorna has already factored those changes in.
 
Seems likely a reduction in ccs is coming... who builds the best 850s currently... Maybe yam n ktm are guessing where this is heading. Ducs big single for moto2 n 300 twins for 3... 🤷‍♂️🤔😂
 
It all comes down to what is better for business...
However, no one seems to want to make a deal with Yamaha right now, even with the financial incentives that are being offered. In the past Yamaha always seemed reluctant to share with their customer teams, and I think that puts teams off. Ducati works well with all their customer teams (some better then others), but there is some level of data and technology sharing, and that gives them an advantage.
 
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Hollywood said:
It all comes down to what is better for business...
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It all comes down to money, MotoGP is a business plain and simple ! Reminds me of the music industry, bands come and go but the business itself thrives.

That final year for Rossi was somewhat of a results embarrassment but I'll bet a lot of money was made selling all sorts of 46 souvenirs.
 
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Yes, in simple terms better results mean more sponsorship money but if it costs more to get that extra sponsorship money than is returned...

If customer Ducati is the same price as customer Yamaha then Ducati is a better choice as the riders will get more air play over the season. If Yamaha is cheaper then the formula is different
 
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There would be an extra 3 million euros from Dorna if they went with Yamaha, and still it doesnt seem to change things. I think it has more to do with how much support the customer team gets from the factory.
 
Hollywood said:
I think it has more to do with how much support the customer team gets from the factory.
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I think it has more to do with how much money is involved for the whole package, money talks ! If someone picks a less competitive bike because there is more money involved it pretty much tells you where their head is at.

I will continue to spend a little on my VideoPass renewal, but not a penny more !
 
I can remember a time that us armchair experts were writing V4's off as being inferior to the inline 4's largely to do with where the weight was distributed
 

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