Will a control tire fix nearly everything?

I miss the 990s too, but does anybody really think their return is even in the realm of possibility? Would the factories be willing to throw the millions spent on the 800s out the window? Would the grid shrink even more as teams are forced to change equipment again?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Aug 22 2008, 04:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I miss the 990s too, but does anybody really think their return is even in the realm of possibility? Would the factories be willing to throw the millions spent on the 800s out the window? Would the grid shrink even more as teams are forced to change equipment again?
not a chance in hell, there gone for good. theres no way dorna would do a u turn and no way the factory's would waste all that money. The factory's are not interested in close racing or what spectacle it gives us, thats dornas problem. the factory's are only interested in developing there product.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Aug 21 2008, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I miss the 990s too, but does anybody really think their return is even in the realm of possibility? Would the factories be willing to throw the millions spent on the 800s out the window? Would the grid shrink even more as teams are forced to change equipment again?

Short term--no way in hell.

Long term--who knows.

The pride of the manufacturers will ensure the 800s stay. Backtracking will only confirm that they are idiots. Ezy was an ..... for letting reactionary changes to the sport pass in the wake of a competitors death, but at least he seems open to the idea of change.

The manufacturers aren't even developing meaningful technologies anymore. Motogp tech is about as useful as F1 tech---it allows people to buy overpriced, superfluous technology.

The manufacturers want to do the same thing they've always done. They are ready for change about once every decade. The political instability of the last couple of seasons is going to make them resilient to any change regardless of its ability to improve the sport.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Aug 19 2008, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>More regulations result in more boring races. I say take of ALL regulations -- any tire, any displacement, as much fuel as needed, now that's racing..
Well thatd be what youd call a true prototype class but its not as if Motogp is supposed to be pure raching mach...oh i see what you did there.
When i come to power the following will be done in MotoGP
990 four strokes/500 two strokes (every manufacturer must field at least one four and two stroke both of which must have comparable development so neither becomes obsolete)
No electronics
No control tyre
"Emaciated jockeys" or any other overpaid prima donnas who mince around the paddock complaining about safety will be punishable under penalty of court marshall.A similar penalty will be incured for tyre manufacturers who confirm to their home nations stereotype by simply giving in when the competition gets too stiff.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thom @ Aug 22 2008, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well thatd be what youd call a true prototype class but its not as if Motogp is supposed to be pure raching mach...oh i see what you did there.
When i come to power the following will be done in MotoGP
990 four strokes/500 two strokes (every manufacturer must field at least one four and two stroke both of which must have comparable development so neither becomes obsolete)
No electronics
No control tyre
"Emaciated jockeys" or any other overpaid prima donnas who mince around the paddock complaining about safety will be punishable under penalty of court marshall.A similar penalty will be incured for tyre manufacturers who confirm to their home nations stereotype by simply giving in when the competition gets too stiff.
you got my vote

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thom @ Aug 22 2008, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.A similar penalty will be incured for tyre manufacturers who confirm to their home nations stereotype by simply giving in when the competition gets too stiff.
Hahahaha. Dude, that is funny.

Would Bridgestone still be allowed to give Rossi/Stoner the better compounds if we had a control tyre, would everyone be on the exact same rubber?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Aug 24 2008, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Would Bridgestone still be allowed to give Rossi/Stoner the better compounds if we had a control tyre, <u>would everyone be on the exact same rubber?
</u>

That would be ideal now wouldn't it...but who knows

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Aug 24 2008, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Would Bridgestone still be allowed to give Rossi/Stoner the better compounds if we had a control tyre, would everyone be on the exact same rubber?

You can be quite sure they would make it like it is in SBK. They have a certain set of tire modles to select from and that is the exact same for everyone. You could still go wrong by selecting to hard or to soft compound but that's about it.

The strange thing is that so many think there are some very special, secret, super tires the manufacturers are handing out to a slected few riders. I got news for you: as long as it is a real tire competition out there Michelin and Breidgestone can't afford to keep the best tires from most of the riders. They need to supply the best they've got to win the tire war. In the old days with total Michelin domination that could be an option, and a way to keep cost down, but I doubt it was more than an occational special favor after successful testing of the same tire, not yet in normal production. More or less the same way the fectory riders get to try the good stuff first.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 24 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You can be quite sure they would make it like it is in SBK. They have a certain set of tire modles to select from and that is the exact same for everyone. You could still go wrong by selecting to hard or to soft compound but that's about it.

The strange thing is that so many think there are some very special, secret, super tires the manufacturers are handing out to a slected few riders. I got news for you: as long as it is a real tire competition out there Michelin and Breidgestone can't afford to keep the best tires from most of the riders. They need to supply the best they've got to win the tire war. In the old days with total Michelin domination that could be an option, and a way to keep cost down, but I doubt it was more than an occational special favor after successful testing of the same tire, not yet in normal production. More or less the same way the fectory riders get to try the good stuff first.
i find that quite funny too. its more a case of there's so many to choose from. compound duel compound ect ect. some teams have more experience and data which helps them make better choices rather than them being given magical tyres

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 24 2008, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i find that quite funny too. its more a case of there's so many to choose from. compound duel compound ect ect. some teams have more experience and data which helps them make better choices rather than them being given magical tyres

Data means soo little nowadays.., tires can change from one race to the next. Michelins got the upper hand one year, next year it's Bridgestones and vice versa. Just take a look at how things are going this year. Early on it looked as though it was going to be Michelin's year...., but look at we're they're at the past 3 races. I really, really, hope everone is on the same tires next year. I'm sure Valentino would feel the same, he even said it himself before in one of his interviews. I'm sure he still feels the same way even though Bridgestone's got the advantage at the moment, that is why Valentino is a racer through and through...... ask Casey the same question, i'm pretty sure his answer would be the opposite, wanting to have any advantage he can have. Just my opinion though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 24 2008, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Data means soo little nowadays.., tires can change from one race to the next. Michelins got the upper hand one year, next year it's Bridgestones and vice versa. Just take a look at how things are going this year. Early on it looked as though it was going to be Michelin's year...., but look at we're they're at the past 3 races. I really, really, hope everone is on the same tires next year. I'm sure Valentino would feel the same, he even said it himself before in one of his interviews. I'm sure he still feels the same way even though Bridgestone's got the advantage at the moment, that is why Valentino is a racer through and through...... ask Casey the same question, i'm pretty sure his answer would be the opposite, wanting to have any advantage he can have. Just my opinion though.

Pfft. Vale read my condemnation of his woeful leadership skills and now he is using rhetoric to clear his besmirched reputation.

He had his chance to even the field last season. He used his pull to get B-stones for himself. Worse, he could easily have gotten himself onto a Bridgestone machine last season, all of them were hiring. All he had to do was take a pay cut.

Apparently that was a bridge too far.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 24 2008, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pfft. Vale read my condemnation of his woeful leadership skills and now he is using rhetoric to clear his besmirched reputation.

He had his chance to even the field last season. He used his pull to get B-stones for himself. Worse, he could easily have gotten himself onto a Bridgestone machine last season, all of them were hiring. All he had to do was take a pay cut.

Apparently that was a bridge too far.

Listen to what you're saying for a moment. Are you really suggesting that Valentino should of switch teams just so he can ride on tires that he felt was going to have the upper hand this year??? Come on.... going into the year NO ONE KNEW who had the upper hand as far as tires go, heck in fact Michelin had the upper hand making people doubt IF Rossi made the right choice. And just because Valentino somehow made the right choice... regardless of how that came about, you somehow felt offended by it? Like i said, Valentino even said it himself he wanted 1 manufacterer tire.... So he was force to make a decision whether to go with Michelin or Bridgestones, and he chose Bridgestones. So what if he use his leverage to get the Bridgestones..... he wouldn't have to if MotoGP had 1 tire manufacturer, regardless the decision he made was a gamble, heck it could of went the other way.... but it looks like he made the right decision this time around.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 25 2008, 01:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Listen to what you're saying for a moment. Are you really suggesting that Valentino should of switch teams just so he can ride on tires that he felt was going to have the upper hand this year??? Come on.... going into the year NO ONE KNEW who had the upper hand as far as tires go, heck in fact Michelin had the upper hand making people doubt IF Rossi made the right choice. And just because Valentino somehow made the right choice... regardless of how that came about, you somehow felt offended by it? Like i said, Valentino even said it himself he wanted 1 manufacterer tire.... So he was force to make a decision whether to go with Michelin or Bridgestones, and he chose Bridgestones. So what if he use his leverage to get the Bridgestones..... he wouldn't have to if MotoGP had 1 tire manufacturer, regardless the decision he made was a gamble, heck it could of went the other way.... but it looks like he made the right decision this time around.
LOL ha ha ha. Vale should have switched since he is so keen on his abilities like when he left honda. Anyone would have taken him and especially Ducati. I would be willing to bet Ducat would say they would only run 2 bikes no sat teams so they can pay him even more if that was possible. They want an Italian to win so bad. So he used his influence like the article that talked about this very thing on crash.net how bstones didn't even want rossi. Ezy forced his hand in the form of the control tire unless bstones took him. And to say stones could have dropped performace like frenchies did. well I would have to say ........!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Aug 24 2008, 07:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Would Bridgestone still be allowed to give Rossi/Stoner the better compounds if we had a control tyre, would everyone be on the exact same rubber?
Well now isn't that the real question. Specific tires are made for each bke since they all put the power down a little different. I would suspect that there isn't a tire that is the same between Yamaha and Ducati. Similar maybe but not the same. Which brings it back to what is a spec tire? Is it one manufacturer, multiple teams and compounds for those teams. OR just one Tire team giving out compound choice? Lots of possibilities. This is one of the main reasons why I think the spec tire isn't as great as most of you who want it think it is going to be. At least with multiple manufactures you will have them busting their ..... for their teams and trying everything to make them more competative. Michelin just sucks right now. Looked good at the beginning and started to rope people in to the sence they were back. Well looks like the table is turned. ...... racing guys and gals. Sucks when your guy ain't winnin' so you better hope people get their .... together. It's a freak show waiting to see what happens each week and we all eat it up. No matter what.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 24 2008, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Listen to what you're saying for a moment. Are you really suggesting that Valentino should of switch teams just so he can ride on tires that he felt was going to have the upper hand this year??? Come on.... going into the year NO ONE KNEW who had the upper hand as far as tires go, heck in fact Michelin had the upper hand making people doubt IF Rossi made the right choice. And just because Valentino somehow made the right choice... regardless of how that came about, you somehow felt offended by it? Like i said, Valentino even said it himself he wanted 1 manufacterer tire.... So he was force to make a decision whether to go with Michelin or Bridgestones, and he chose Bridgestones. So what if he use his leverage to get the Bridgestones..... he wouldn't have to if MotoGP had 1 tire manufacturer, regardless the decision he made was a gamble, heck it could of went the other way.... but it looks like he made the right decision this time around.

No. I would never suggest that. Who switches teams to upgrade their equipment. That's UNHEARD of.

You'd have to be mad. NOBODY SWITCHES TEAMS FOR THE EQUIPMENT. THAT'S INSANE!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I'm not the one attempting to pull off the impossible argument. Give up and save face. Vale did what he did and there's no reason to pretend it didn't happen or that it was business as usual.

Political lobbying is not something we want to associate with Valentino Rossi. It would be nice to speak highly of him as if he had no flaws, but you can't pretend something didn't happen b/c you don't think it fits well in the legend.

He obtained tires for himself via political means. It was a cheap, impatient, and unnecessary maneuver for someone of his stature. But worse still, the purpose of his political moves wasn't only to give himself an illegitimate shot at the title, but also to improve the marketability of his legend and his brand. #46 stuff is selling pretty well these days.

While I appreciate his remarkable skill, I don't worship the ground he walks on. The damage he has done to his reputation is not my problem.

Put his cheap political wrangling in the history books and let people decide for themselves. I don't care if people choose to overlook it, but I won't let them excuse it or pretend like it didn't happen. If history is recorded correctly the next GOAT will be able to learn from his mistakes.

Interesting post lex. What I miss in this Rossi -> Bridgestone thing is what kind of leverage does he have? Not the weight or length of his leverage but the type. Because if we look at it he has the same type of leverage as all the other riders; his reputation and results as a rider. Nothing else. Sure, there are sponsors following riders but that's really just a part of that reputation and will depend on sitizenship and contacts. But any way we turn it the riders have only that single asset to go into a negotiation, nothing more nothing less. And that's what they try to use to the fullest to achive their goals and ambitions every one of them.
I agree that Rossi might have a very long and heavy leverage but it's buildt only on his reputation. He doesn't own any substantial interests in Dorna or have some dirty secrets on Ezy (that we know of) so all he have is his reputation. So he does what all the other riders are doing, he negotiate with his reputation as leverage. I can agree that Rossi might have become too big and to powerful but you can hardly blame him for it. First of all beacuse Dorna, FIM and the media has done their best to help him build that reputation, secondly because in the end it's buildt on his own merits.
Is it political, sure, everything is politics, didn't you know? Is it dirty, no way, if he sat on both sides, or paid off those on the other side it would, but him using the leverage he got is to do exactly what everyone else does.

If anyone really thought Michelin were back in it this season then you were delusional. Their resources are a fraction of Bridgestones and with the setbacks they had last season, they've been playing catch up all along.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 25 2008, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If anyone really thought Michelin were back in it this season then you were delusional. Their resources are a fraction of Bridgestones and with the setbacks they had last season, they've been playing catch up all along.
Someone last year said that michelin are basically broke. This would seem plausible to me.

A guess..
If Bridgestone is going to make the tires for everybody it would make sence to make them as good as possible.To use the best compounds and carcasses they find by the end of 2008.
They wouldn't throw away years of developement and make a WallMart tire would they?
The best tires are on the bikes with B.stone test teams.Or should i say,the bike best suited to the best things B.stone has.Ducati has had a separate test team for tires only,for a few years now right?So has Suzuki i think but not for as long and Kawasaki i don't know about.Rossi has some say in what to develope and what to throw away.
Honda has had Gresini but no test team that i have heard of.And now they have Nakano at least trying them with a bike that has resonably comparable characteristics as the Repsol bike as it is evolving constantly.Either Honda is going to need a B.stone test team or throw every little upgrade of the bike to Nakano and hope he doesn't crash and get injured.
But i think RepsolHonda is going to have to catch up in the beginning to especially Ducati/Stoner and Yamaha/Rossi.The Suzuki is so far behind anyway,and so is Kawasaki.