Where in the pecking order would Toseland be

I think Toseland is done in MotoGP. I mean he got his ... handed to him by his own teammate at his Home grand prix. That was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as I'm concern. I use to think that Toseland had potential in him, but when I look at those championships he got in WSBK and how it really wasn't won in dramatic fashion at all, it makes you wonder how good of a rider he really is.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Aug 4 2009, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am just about to the point where i dont care if Spies ever leaves WSBK,even though its going to happen. Can you imagine that series,if Toseland, Edwards and Hayden came over and Spies and Hopper stay .With Haga,Biaggi and Fabrizio that would be one hell of a lot of star power. Bring in Mladin and maybe even Hodgson, hell,Bayliss might even come out of retirement for that.That i would pay big money to see. The TV money would be outrageous and everyone could get payed.Here in the states where bike racing is not ready for primetime,have closed circuit tv package that you can purchase by the race or for the whole year.What would you pay to see that,600-700 a year, i know i would,thats just 40 bucks an event.WSBK is in a unique posistion right now and could bury MGP

It would be better than watching Rossi race Lorenzo every race. Plus you get two races every race weekend. Also, besides the obvious advantage of the Ducs the bikes and politics are much better. The series isn't organized for one rider. Anyone has a chance to win come raceday. Although I would like to see privateers on the top step.

on Toseland - Depends on what bike Toseland can snag. If he gets Checa's or Rea's I would say that he could do quite well in the mix of things. I think Spies would still dominate him as well as Fabi and Haga, Bayliss, Hayden, Hopper. He might get Biaggi every once in a while. If he can only grab a privateer like Hopkins then I would say that he will struggle to get regular podiums.

For sure though. All of these folks could win and the races at the front would be amazing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Aug 4 2009, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am just about to the point where i dont care if Spies ever leaves WSBK,even though its going to happen. Can you imagine that series,if Toseland, Edwards and Hayden came over and Spies and Hopper stay .With Haga,Biaggi and Fabrizio that would be one hell of a lot of star power. Bring in Mladin and maybe even Hodgson, hell,Bayliss might even come out of retirement for that.That i would pay big money to see. The TV money would be outrageous and everyone could get payed.Here in the states where bike racing is not ready for primetime,have closed circuit tv package that you can purchase by the race or for the whole year.What would you pay to see that,600-700 a year, i know i would,thats just 40 bucks an event.WSBK is in a unique posistion right now and could bury MGP

i'm against this. why? because of what SackWack mentioned: politics. everything is fine now, but if it starts gaining momentum and does displace MotoGP, all the money and resources and power will be concentrated on SBK and with that will come a bunch of ........ in suits that have no business trying to run the series, trying to run the series. and then SBK will just become the mess F1 and MotoGP are and there goes another series ruined.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Aug 4 2009, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WSBK is in a unique posistion right now and could bury MGP
Completely agree with you on this one Povol.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mastodon @ Aug 5 2009, 12:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i'm against this. why? because of what SackWack mentioned: politics. everything is fine now, but if it starts gaining momentum and does displace MotoGP, all the money and resources and power will be concentrated on SBK and with that will come a bunch of ........ in suits that have no business trying to run the series, trying to run the series. and then SBK will just become the mess F1 and MotoGP are and there goes another series ruined.
Good points made, but doubtful it will happen. Too many people love the tradition of MotoGP and will pour all their money into it just because it is "the" moto series, even though it may decline due to the manipulations by Dorna and the factories. In regards to WSKBK, we can only hope they stick to the production bike concept and the current rule set, which is excellent.

Now onto Toesland. I believe he is an excellent rider, but not one of the top 5-6 guys in MotoGP right now. If he returned to WSBK it would be a treat in my mind as he has shown he can put both the Honda and the Ducati at the front, and I am convinced he could do the same with the new R1. However when it comes to him being in MotoGP, the point made by SS56 holds true without a doubt, you have to beat your teammate first, he hasn't done this. Plus with the Yamaha being "the" bike to have, his seat is going to be sought after by many riders. Head back to WSBK James, it's an exciting place to be.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mastodon @ Aug 4 2009, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but if it starts gaining momentum and does displace MotoGP, all the money and resources and power will be concentrated on SBK and with that will come a bunch of ........ in suits that have no business trying to run the series, trying to run the series. and then SBK will just become the mess F1 and MotoGP are and there goes another series ruined.

Actually it already has started to happen. At the beginning of the year I could visit the SBK site and watch a race and highlight videos. Now, nothing. The dornization of SBK has begun. No stopping it now. Enjoy it while you still can.

I found this interesting:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Crutchlow is particularly confident that he could be riding a factory Yamaha in 2010, hinting at a clause in his contract that stipulates he can graduate to Superbikes if his results in Supersports are good enough. crash.net

Speculation where Toes will land is seriously not at as interesting to me as where Crutchlow might land, especially if he gets a factory Yamaha ride (Sykes out? or three man team?)

All this talk about WSBK blowing up, well Crutchlow also hints at a Moto2 defection. While MotoGP is anemic, will Moto2 save it? Will this diminish wsbk supersport? LINK

Anyway, speaking of Toesland, check out what Neil H. said about him:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Q Observational stuff: Do you understand where James Toseland is right now - do you understand the place that he's in, personally, and what his life is like right now?

A Yeah, 100%. 100%. Especially when he first - that first race in Qatar, where he sort of battled with Rossi, I thought, "Well, he surprised me. I actually think he's probably going to do it. He's going to be able to cut it at MotoGP." And pretty much that's been the highlight of his MotoGP career. Since then he's never really been up front. I just know what it's like. It's frustrating. He's in a better position than I was in. He's in a team that's got a better class about it, and looks like—the pay, the sponsors—they've got some sponsorship money to pay the tire bill. The team I was in was, it was ...

Q Precarious.

A To say the least.

Q Did you ever get all your money?

A Fortunately, I did, because I got a side contract with Ducati to say, "if Luis D'Antin doesn't pay me, you'll have to bail me out."

Q That's brilliant!

A That was the best thing my manager ever did for me. And it was a lot of money, as well. So I did get paid.

Q Anyway, continue on Toseland, please.

A Yeah. So I can see, now, I mean, he's never beaten his teammate once all year. Especially with what happened with all the crew chief debacle. I don't know the inside story. I'd love to sit down with both James and Colin and get the full story. I don't know if you know the whole story.

He's obviously having no fun. He's obviously a great rider. You know he'll probably get a World Superbike ride. You wouldn't bet against him winning, the way he rode the previous years was pretty impressive. If I was him, I'd be getting out as fast as I could. It's pretty obvious it's not going to happen for him. If you can't be there or thereabouts on the Yamaha, which is obviously a good bike; you're on the same tires as Rossi and Lorenzo; then just get out and enjoy your racing. You're suited to a World Superbike. Well, that's not a bad problem to have, is it?

Q True. MotoGP is a bad series for a rider to be three steps behind everyone else. Catching back up is difficult.

A Exactly. You can ride phenomenal, and if your package is not quite right, you are battling for 13th place, still. And that's no fun. At all. You can see it, can't you. That's what he's done, pretty much, for a year and a half, now. So I've not spoken to him about it, but the biggest mistake that he could probably make is trying to stay. He's probably not. I don't know.

ENDS superbikeplanet.com

[quote name='Jumkie' date='Aug 5 2009, 07:02 AM' post='203514']
I found this interesting:



Speculation where Toes will land is seriously not at as interesting to me as where Crutchlow might land

Agreed my man. Can't wait to see what Cal gets up to next year

Think Toseland's days in motogp are finished ( unless Dorna feel it is necessary for a token Brit ). Attracting a good WSBK ride should be no problem. Top 3 for Tose in WSBK

I`d have James for a top 5 every race,the competition is a bit hotter now.But I would expect him to finish in the top 3 at end of season.As for Crutchlow,whatever he does I`ll be proud of him,he`s a Coventry lad too.

I think JT would fair well enough to win here and there. I don't think he would take the Championship when he gets back but I do believe he would be up there fighting for wins and podiums. I think with all the new players and those yet to come next year should be even better than this year. Also we should be looking at KTM on the grid if we are lucky so there could be another facet in this gem we call superbike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Aug 6 2009, 08:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The more you look at WSBK,the better it becomes. I didnt realize it, but was just looking at the complete riders points list and it hit me that DAMN, a lot of these guys have actually won WSBK races. If i counted correctly,there is 14 winners of WSBK races in the line up. That is freakin unheard of.

When it comes to the racing, WSBK comes second to none.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Aug 6 2009, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The more you look at WSBK,the better it becomes. I didnt realize it, but was just looking at the complete riders points list and it hit me that DAMN, a lot of these guys have actually won WSBK races. If i counted correctly,there is 14 winners of WSBK races in the line up. That is freakin unheard of.
There was a time when MotoGP would field 30-40 riders. Nowaday's it's barely 17. That leaves a ton of top riders that want to compete against each other in a premier series. WSBK is where everyone has been going.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 6 2009, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When it comes to the racing, WSBK comes second to none.
I would argue that WSS (although technically you could say it's all part of the "WSBK circuit") has the best racing. Certainly in 2008, WSS was amazing. This year with the dominance of Crutchlow and Laverty it's lost some of it's luster, but still entertaining. The big question for next year will be Moto2, I think it has the potential of being the most entertaining racing. 40 riders, same engine, same tires, seems like a recipe for close racing. We shall see.

In regards to WSBK, there is a very very good chance that it will finish with a bang, the points are very close between Haga and Spies. I am hoping we have an entertaining close finish that could rival the 2002 Edwards vs. Bayliss battle.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 4 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Toseland is done in MotoGP. I mean he got his ... handed to him by his own teammate at his Home grand prix. That was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as I'm concern. I use to think that Toseland had potential in him, but when I look at those championships he got in WSBK and how it really wasn't won in dramatic fashion at all, it makes you wonder how good of a rider he really is.


Read the title again!

Where in the pecking order would Toseland be


It did not asked for the useless crap you posted.





.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 4 2009, 11:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It would be better than watching Rossi race Lorenzo every race. Plus you get two races every race weekend. Also, besides the obvious advantage of the Ducs the bikes and politics are much better. The series isn't organized for one rider. Anyone has a chance to win come raceday. Although I would like to see privateers on the top step.

on Toseland - Depends on what bike Toseland can snag. If he gets Checa's or Rea's I would say that he could do quite well in the mix of things. I think Spies would still dominate him as well as Fabi and Haga, Bayliss, Hayden, Hopper. He might get Biaggi every once in a while. If he can only grab a privateer like Hopkins then I would say that he will struggle to get regular podiums.

For sure though. All of these folks could win and the races at the front would be amazing.
Ronald Ten Kate himself said he'd have Toseland back quick as a flash if he wanted to return. Not sure where I read the quote from him, but it was only a few weeks back.

I'd be interested to know whether Tardozzi would have him back at Ducati if he wanted to return.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Aug 6 2009, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would argue that WSS (although technically you could say it's all part of the "WSBK circuit") has the best racing. Certainly in 2008, WSS was amazing. This year with the dominance of Crutchlow and Laverty it's lost some of it's luster, but still entertaining. The big question for next year will be Moto2, I think it has the potential of being the most entertaining racing. 40 riders, same engine, same tires, seems like a recipe for close racing. We shall see.

What Crutchlow has been able to do this year has been somewhat of an anomoly. Usually the racing is very good. I agree, it can be argued that WSS produces some of the best racing as well.

MOTO2 is going to be awesome IMO.

With the grid as it is now, i'd probably put JT safely somwhere between Haga and Spies.

Toseland is a good rider, but I don't think he will beat Spies on equal equipment. If I were Toseland, I'd be trying to find a ride at Ducati. If Toseland wins 1 more championship he'll have as many championships as Bayliss

If Spies is leaving for GP, I suppose Yamaha could be a really good move for Toseland. I really hope Spies doesn't leave for GP. If he fails to win the championship this season, there is a chance he could vanish into obscurity as just another rider who never won a world championship.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 7 2009, 01:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Toseland is a good rider, but I don't think he will beat Spies on equal equipment. If I were Toseland, I'd be trying to find a ride at Ducati. If Toseland wins 1 more championship he'll have as many championships as Bayliss

If Spies is leaving for GP, I suppose Yamaha could be a really good move for Toseland. I really hope Spies doesn't leave for GP. If he fails to win the championship this season, there is a chance he could vanish into obscurity as just another rider who never won a world championship.
Good point about Toesland picking up another championship and being on par with Bayliss. But he should try and do it on a Yamaha, so he will have done it on 3 different makes. If he does come back he will have a guy named Haga waiting for him, along with a plethora of other great riders hungry for the top spots.

I don't think Spies wants to be the next Fogerty, he has voiced his aspirations many times about being in MotoGP. That said, maybe a year in WSBK has changed his mind? Doubtful though, I'm sure he himself feels he is ready to move up after such a surprisingly successful first year in WSBK. I'll agree with you that such a move to GP carries with it the chance he could never win another championship, let alone another race.

Back to superbike is where Toesland needs to go. After the ego-drubbing he's suffered the last
two years - I will be surprised if he more than podiums a few times in a season. I know how
subjective and unscientific it sounds but to my mind, Toesland, along with Hodgson, Edwards, Vermulen and Hopper - are just lacking in the backbone department. Spies seems to have that
Lawsonesque grit and determination the others lack. They're all "nice" guys. Spies ain't that.
I predict he will go farther than all those other pretenders to the GP throne.