What is the problem with Zarco and the KTM bike?

capulet · Apr 4, 2019

i'm looking for this topic discussion, but i cannot find one.. refer me to it if i've missed.

some said the KTM tubular chassis & its WP suspension system should be blame.. need to be alter or to change the WP fork to Ohlins..
surely it won't happen.. for at least next few years..

the KTM boss had adviced Zarco (& Tech3 boss to Syahrin) to change their riding style.. Zarco admit he's struggle to adapt, but said he won't change his way of riding..

Pol has 2 years experience with KTM bike, Miguel too I think has been familiar with KTM machine since in moto2 for few years..

what do you think guys, Zarco was perform very good previously with M1 he beat Vale & Maverick few times with 'outdated version' of Yamaha M1..

so here, is it the problem with the new young KTM bike setup..? (i'm not pointing to their engineers though

or the Riders should be blame, failed to adapt quickly..?

even Lorenzo seems struggles when he join Duc & now Repsol..

Theo · Apr 4, 2019

I don't think there's anything wrong with the way they make their bikes, one thing though and that is tubular frames bend more, I think thats the problem for Zarco (1 of my favourite riders). It could also be the problem with Syharin.
I don't agree about Oliveira and the moto2 bike giving him an advantage at this level, the beast handles totally different IMO.

Keshav · Apr 4, 2019

capulet said:
i'm looking for this topic discussion, but i cannot find one.. refer me to it if i've missed.

some said the KTM tubular chassis & its WP suspension system should be blame.. need to be alter or to change the WP fork to Ohlins..
surely it won't happen.. for at least next few years..

the KTM boss had adviced Zarco (& Tech3 boss to Syahrin) to change their riding style.. Zarco admit he's struggle to adapt, but said he won't change his way of riding..

Pol has 2 years experience with KTM bike, Miguel too I think has been familiar with KTM machine since in moto2 for few years..

what do you think guys, Zarco was perform very good previously with M1 he beat Vale & Maverick few times with 'outdated version' of Yamaha M1..

so here, is it the problem with the new young KTM bike setup..? (i'm not pointing to their engineers though
or the Riders should be blame, failed to adapt quickly..?

even Lorenzo seems struggles when he join Duc & now Repsol..

Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges (I don't think so) but Ducati didn't really start to shine until they shelved their own-style chassis and went to a chassis that mirrored those of the Japanese.

Theo · Apr 4, 2019

Keshav said:
Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges (I don't think so) but Ducati didn't really start to shine until they shelved their own-style chassis and went to a chassis that mirrored those of the Japanese.

Well you only had to look at their weld work, it was so crap.

ratdeal · Apr 4, 2019

The properties of tubular steel are totally different to an alloy box section chassis. Therefore the feedback is different and the rider has to learn to interpret that feedback.

Once he gets a feel for what the bike is telling him he will improve, however until does he can't provide accurate feedback as to where the machine deficiencies are.

Stoner used to say that the problem with the tubular concept was the the feel varies from one chassis to another making set up difficult between bikes and as a result every new chassis that arrived would require a totally different base set up.

Iamapony · Apr 4, 2019

Yeah, all interesting points, except Ducati won the MotoGP championship with a trellis frame. They THEN went to a carbon fiber 'monocoque'. They struggled with it, but it takes time with a new technology, so Stoner suffered. Then along comes Mr. Yellow fangs and he tells Ducati that the carbon fiber is no good and they need to be Yamaha. Ducati, being nice Italian boys listen to this Yellow Italian nonsense, and set themselves back three years in development to appease the shirt salesman.

Ducati has had all this time to perfect the aluminum spar since then. If they had stayed with the carbon fiber, they would have been competitive at least 3 years sooner. Now, the other manufacturers are adding carbon fiber parts. Oh the irony.

Hollywood · Apr 4, 2019

with all the talent, money, and resources that KTM has, I would be surprised if they did not have other frame and suspension options being worked on somewhere in their organization.

Keshav · Apr 4, 2019

Iamapony said:
Yeah, all interesting points, except Ducati won the MotoGP championship with a trellis frame. They THEN went to a carbon fiber 'monocoque'. They struggled with it, but it takes time with a new technology, so Stoner suffered. Then along comes Mr. Yellow fangs and he tells Ducati that the carbon fiber is no good and they need to be Yamaha. Ducati, being nice Italian boys listen to this Yellow Italian nonsense, and set themselves back three years in development to appease the shirt salesman.

Ducati has had all this time to perfect the aluminum spar since then. If they had stayed with the carbon fiber, they would have been competitive at least 3 years sooner. Now, the other manufacturers are adding carbon fiber parts. Oh the irony.

The “win factor” was Stoner. Stoner on Bridgestones developed for the Ducati. Agree re: aluminum frame. Who knows - with that going for him he might not have been in such a hurry to go to Honda.

ratdeal · Apr 4, 2019

Hollywood said:
with all the talent, money, and resources that KTM has, I would be surprised if they did not have other frame and suspension options being worked on somewhere in their organization.

They are already testing numerous chassis iterations during the season, but have recently confirmed they will never move away from their current trellis chassis as it is central to the KTM concept and philosophy.

The same story with the in-house suspension brand.

Mick D · Apr 4, 2019

ratdeal said:
The same story with the in-house suspension brand.

This strategy seems dodgy. Run Ohlins on the bike until you can CONFIRM thru testing that the WPs work at least as well... Honda aint running Showa.

Barbedwirebikerr · Apr 4, 2019

Mick D said:
This strategy seems dodgy. Run Ohlins on the bike until you can CONFIRM thru testing that the WPs work at least as well... Honda aint running Showa.

Surely they have some Ohlins suspension on which they can do back to back testing and possibly reverse engineer.

Hollywood · Apr 5, 2019

ratdeal said:
They are already testing numerous chassis iterations during the season, but have recently confirmed they will never move away from their current trellis chassis as it is central to the KTM concept and philosophy.

The same story with the in-house suspension brand.

when you tie one hand behind your back, you have to fight twice as hard.

BarryMachine · Apr 5, 2019

The only problem with Zarco is that he got vetoed by rossi. Otherwise he would have been the next nearest thing to Marquez, if he had gotten the factory Yam ride. Its hard to know whether the aprillia or ktm is the most "nowhere bike".

Keshav · Apr 5, 2019

BarryMachine said:
The only problem with Zarco is that he got vetoed by rossi. Otherwise he would have been the next nearest thing to Marquez, if he had gotten the factory Yam ride. Its hard to know whether the aprillia or ktm is the most "nowhere bike".

I wuz just sayin' as how I wuz wondering where you been. Good to see come 'round!

ratdeal · Apr 5, 2019

BarryMachine said:
The only problem with Zarco is that he got vetoed by rossi. Otherwise he would have been the next nearest thing to Marquez, if he had gotten the factory Yam ride. Its hard to know whether the aprillia or ktm is the most "nowhere bike".

You got a link? First I've heard of this!

I was under the impression he would have had to take Mav's seat, with Vinales holding on to a 2 year contract being the issue?

BarryMachine · Apr 6, 2019

ratdeal said:
You got a link? First I've heard of this!

I was under the impression he would have had to take Mav's seat, with Vinales holding on to a 2 year contract being the issue?

Your link .... yeah sure ..... http//.rewind the clock a few years and live what was happening when Zarco was whooping the other Yam riders .... especially rossi .com

BarryMachine · Apr 6, 2019

Keshav said:
I wuz just sayin' as how I wuz wondering where you been. Good to see come 'round!

Still around for sure, just nothing much to comment on so fsr this season.

Keshav · Apr 6, 2019

BarryMachine said:
Still around for sure, just nothing much to comment on so fsr this season.

I strongly suspect there are quite a few ghosting this forum.

Hollywood · Apr 6, 2019

I thought KTM offered Zarco more money???

as for Aprilia vs KTM, right now Aprilia is doing more with less.

when you think about KTM they have a 2 teams (4 bikes) and a testing program which is essentially a 3rd team with quality riders, they should be miles ahead of where they are.

ratdeal · Apr 6, 2019

BarryMachine said:
Your link .... yeah sure ..... http//.rewind the clock a few years and live what was happening when Zarco was whooping the other Yam riders .... especially rossi .com

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What is the problem with Zarco and the KTM bike?

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