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Traction Controll Here to Stay

I

is200

Joined Oct 2008
88 Posts | 0+
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77429

A really good read over at Autosport, im sorry if its already been posted, but i could not seem to find it anywhere.

Casey just comments that hes really only used Traction Control in its current guise since Catalunya. Prior to that, and over the preceding years he basically had it turned off/right down. To an extent where he would not get any power cut/outage over the course of a lap.

It shows how sophisticated these systems are, as he basically states that it finally is a good tool for geetting lap time, weather that be through increased confidence or margin for error. But he does also comment that it does feel slower.

Well many people who penned Casey for a pin it and sit back type of rider can now see that he is indeed very talented with throttle application, and his abilities on the Duke have had very little to do wtih its 'electronics' and 'advanced traction control'.

I wonder if its a coincidence that this improvment in their TC has kinda coincided with Haydens up turn in form. Itts clearly making the bike more ridable.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Aug 3 2009, 03:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77429

A really good read over at Autosport, im sorry if its already been posted, but i could not seem to find it anywhere.

Casey just comments that hes really only used Traction Control in its current guise since Catalunya. Prior to that, and over the preceding years he basically had it turned off/right down. To an extent where he would not get any power cut/outage over the course of a lap.

It shows how sophisticated these systems are, as he basically states that it finally is a good tool for geetting lap time, weather that be through increased confidence or margin for error. But he does also comment that it does feel slower.

Well many people who penned Casey for a pin it and sit back type of rider can now see that he is indeed very talented with throttle application, and his abilities on the Duke have had very little to do wtih its 'electronics' and 'advanced traction control'.

I wonder if its a coincidence that this improvment in their TC has kinda coincided with Haydens up turn in form. Itts clearly making the bike more ridable.

stoner didn't use tc on the ducati until this year in spain - he's a talented master of throttle control - that's absolute bs - until he got in the duc - loaded with tc - he'd fallen off every other bike. go back & read what burgess was reporting on duc tc in 2007. tc - i do agree it's here to stay - unfortunately
 
ptk, i dare say Casey would know more about his application and reliance on TC than either yourself or JB. He clearly states that he has used it, but to as minimized a level as possible.

Once again in your referance to his 06 season, you would be advised to understand why he had many off and the inherent causes of those crashes before making a comment that it was due to Hondas poor TC.

And lastly if you think going from a Honda to a Ducati is a way to minimize your crashes and ride a more forgiving option, then clearly you have either not watched a race over the last couple of years or understand little about bike behavior.

Im not suggesting that he is better at throttle control etc... than Rossi, but merley that the sometimes percieved perception that you just point and squirt the duke is a fallacy.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Aug 3 2009, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77429

A really good read over at Autosport, im sorry if its already been posted, but i could not seem to find it anywhere.

Casey just comments that hes really only used Traction Control in its current guise since Catalunya. Prior to that, and over the preceding years he basically had it turned off/right down. To an extent where he would not get any power cut/outage over the course of a lap.

It shows how sophisticated these systems are, as he basically states that it finally is a good tool for geetting lap time, weather that be through increased confidence or margin for error. But he does also comment that it does feel slower.

Well many people who penned Casey for a pin it and sit back type of rider can now see that he is indeed very talented with throttle application, and his abilities on the Duke have had very little to do wtih its 'electronics' and 'advanced traction control'.

I wonder if its a coincidence that this improvment in their TC has kinda coincided with Haydens up turn in form. Itts clearly making the bike more ridable.
i like the spin you put on that article !

it says
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Stoner added that he had been using traction control more in recent races after changes to the Ducati's electronics, and that it had proved helpful despite his personal dislike of it.

"We've only found a good system since Catalunya. We found something that's helped tame the Ducati and calmed a down a lot," he said.

i assume he is talking about this years bike which is quite different from previous years bikes what with carbon frame swingarm ect ect.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>"For the last couple of years we didn't have nearly as much as we've had since Catalunya.

this could mean the new bike needs / uses far more than previous bikes. All he is saying is he uses more now than he did. that's not to say he didn't use more than others in previous seasons though.
 
i like the spin you put on that article !

Ha Ha, yeah you have to take same liberties/interpertation other wise we would get far too bored between races.

i assume he is talking about this years bike which is quite different from previous years bikes what with carbon from swingarm ect ect.

He kind of only really coments about TC as a whole, as opposed to track specific. I wonder if this new TC setting has begun to unlock the CF swing arm? I was told a few weeks back that the issue they were having with the Carbon S/A was its rigidity. And at the bumpier tracks the flex that the aluminium gave them was the way to go, it givae more traction and was a more effective form of secondary suspension when the bike was leaned over.

Perhaps the CF swing arm is ultimatley faster, but it has a higher reliance on effective electronics, as they cant rely on the frame flexing wtiht the bumps etc... ?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Aug 4 2009, 01:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i like the spin you put on that article !

Ha Ha, yeah you have to take same liberties/interpertation other wise we would get far too bored between races.

i assume he is talking about this years bike which is quite different from previous years bikes what with carbon from swingarm ect ect.

He kind of only really coments about TC as a whole, as opposed to track specific. I wonder if this new TC setting has begun to unlock the CF swing arm? I was told a few weeks back that the issue they were having with the Carbon S/A was its rigidity. And at the bumpier tracks the flex that the aluminium gave them was the way to go, it givae more traction and was a more effective form of secondary suspension when the bike was leaned over.

Perhaps the CF swing arm is ultimatley faster, but it has a higher reliance on effective electronics, as they cant rely on the frame flexing wtiht the bumps etc... ?
Well they will have to build in flex somewhere to stop this energy being transferred to the rider. It was posted on this forum before about the carbon swing arm would flex but only in the way it was engineered to flex and it was more precise in this area than the ally swing arm. Im not sure if that's fact or fiction or how electronics can play a part in any flex issues other than to interrupt power to the rear wheel should it detect loss of grip caused by flex or lack of. But i would imagine that any tc settings from the steel frame to carbon frame and ally swing arm to carbon swing arm to be totally different.
 
Stoner seems to be speaking specifically about one aspect of traction control where it CUTS power. I assume there are many other operating aspects to TC such as engine mapping and style of power delivered at different corners/lean angles/gears/rpm. I don't think he is suggesting that he does not take advantage of all of those aspects of TC but he is quite clearly stating that when power is <u>cut</u> it is annoying and makes him feel slower.

This makes common sense to me as you want to know what is going to happen when you apply action to the control aspects of a bike. I am sure after a few laps they understand what the other aspects of TC give them at certain lean angles etc where as a cut in power is a random thing. All these guys have the skills to be sliding these bikes around at leisure so to have a random act happen mid slide would be un nerving me thinks.
 
I knew your post would bring out the Loonies IS200 ,,,,,,,
<


It doesn't matter what you say, the Rossifan fairytale is all they will believe, irrespective of how much their fairytale flies in the face of logic
<
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Aug 4 2009, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I knew your post would bring out the Loonies IS200 ,,,,,,,
<


It doesn't matter what you say, the Rossifan fairytale is all they will believe, irrespective of how much their fairytale flies in the face of logic
<
<

Another fact loaded post by the infamous berry
<
<
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThePhorest @ Aug 4 2009, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%BRING BACK THE 990'S!!!!

ABSOFECKINLUTELY
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThePhorest @ Aug 4 2009, 01:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%BRING BACK THE 990'S!!!!


Make it an even 1,000. Now that's even better !!
 
Casey must have forgotten that in 07 they would show a graph with throttle position for all of us to see!!! If Casey wasn't relying on TC, Rossi was pushing with his feet.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Aug 4 2009, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Casey must have forgotten that in 07 they would show a graph with throttle position for all of us to see!!! If Casey wasn't relying on TC, Rossi was pushing with his feet.

True, indeed. I cannot see how CS can say that he doesn't much use the TC, as the throttle graphs gave us the whole story. Hell, even Rossi was cracking the throttle wide open, albeit not as aggressively as Casey...
 
Be careful about reading an entire argument into a rider's 1 sentence statement that is likely to be an answer to a very specific question asked by a "journalist". (I had to go back and put that in quotes).

Anyway, it's obvious Stoner cannot be talking about the complete absence of TC. The bikes are all engineered with electronic controls; they are no longer an afterthought like with the strokers so a GP bike without computers is like your 2008 car without computers... stationary.

Bottom line, Casey is freakin fast when he's on. We all saw him walk away from Rossi many times. If he's doing it with the TC set to "low" or "high" don't really matter. They're all racing bleeding edge kit. As long as all the bikes are legal, may the fastest ............ win.

I don't know what the solution is... maybe a control ECU or let teams running no-TC-bikes to have 1000cc or 1200cc or something. That sounds like a recipe for some beautiful chaos.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Aug 4 2009, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Be careful about reading an entire argument into a rider's 1 sentence statement that is likely to be an answer to a very specific question asked by a "journalist". (I had to go back and put that in quotes).

Anyway, it's obvious Stoner cannot be talking about the complete absence of TC. The bikes are all engineered with electronic controls; they are no longer an afterthought like with the strokers so a GP bike without computers is like your 2008 car without computers... stationary.

Bottom line, Casey is freakin fast when he's on. We all saw him walk away from Rossi many times. If he's doing it with the TC set to "low" or "high" don't really matter. They're all racing bleeding edge kit. As long as all the bikes are legal, may the fastest ............ win.

I don't know what the solution is... maybe a control ECU or let teams running no-TC-bikes to have 1000cc or 1200cc or something. That sounds like a recipe for some beautiful chaos.
good post and good points parc.
 
I seem to remember hearing, i cant remember from where (so take it with a grain of salt) that Casey uses a lot of rear brake when he gets on the gas. Basically he uses it as a bit of manual traction control.

Not sure if any of you remember Phillip Island in 07 (i think) where his rear brakes locked up between the Hay Shed and Lukey Heights. When i first met casey i asked him about that and he said that the disc warped as he was riding his brakes. Something to think about at least.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tlrwinder @ Aug 5 2009, 06:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>True, indeed. I cannot see how CS can say that he doesn't much use the TC, as the throttle graphs gave us the whole story. Hell, even Rossi was cracking the throttle wide open, albeit not as aggressively as Casey...

Maybe CS doesn't fully understand how much/little is being used? I use a computer everyday but don't really know how everything does what it does.......without a direct reference to riding a previously un-TC missile 500cc or very early 990 then he doesn't have the alternate experience to comment on how much it is helping him - as VR/Loris do.....more food for thought
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Aug 5 2009, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe CS doesn't fully understand how much/little is being used? I use a computer everyday but don't really know how everything does what it does.......without a direct reference to riding a previously un-TC missile 500cc or very early 990 then he doesn't have the alternate experience to comment on how much it is helping him - as VR/Loris do.....more food for thought

Very true, and along the same lines what he refers to as TC could well be massively different to that which we call TC. He may very well be referring only to the impacts of TC at teh rear wheel where many people in general discussion seem to 'lump' all electronics inclusive of engine management etc into the TC bucket.

Personally I suspect that these guys would know how much TC they use and it's impacts but that they may well understate it because to them the impacts may well be miniscule, whereas for the average observer the impacts could well be massive.


As for the earlier comment (not yours) regarding throttle graphs etc as shown on TV, I wouldn't trust them for throttle/brake applications. I say that as I have watched coverage (Jerez may have been) and it showed JL hard on the gas but it was clear watching it that he was under heavy braking (front end had dived into one of the slow corners). But, if someone had access to all telemetry that woudl be something else and incredibly interesting





Gaz
 

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