Top 10 MotoGP rider moves of the MotoGP era.

#22 · Sep 10, 2024

I was listening to a podcast (Bring Back V10's) by the Race recently. The series is focused on the V10 F1 era (1989-2005) and associated stories. Often very interesting snippets that can now be told given the passage of time. Their latest episode was the top 10 driver moves of the era, so I thought it would be fun to do one for the MotoGP era (2002 onwards) - No 500cc moves Kesh!

Now, this isn't just 'the most famous riders' as I know most people consider Rossi to Yamaha in 2004 to be top. However, the list has to consider impacts on the sport as a whole. For example. On the podcast, they had Schumacher to Ferrari in 1995 only as #5, because while it opened up the door to a huge amount of success, it was simply a top driver moving to a 'top' team. They had Schumachers moved to Benetton from Jordan in 1991 as higher up, because it in effect started the Schumacher era. #1 was Senna to Williams, mainly because it indirectly was the cause of his death, and the wave of safety changes in the sport afterwards. It also left F1 without a star driver.

So with that in mind, here if my top 10

10. Biaggi to Camel Honda - 2003 (The final nail in the Yamaha coffin, leading them to pursuing Rossi for 2004)

9. Stoner retirement - 2011 (Retired arguably in his prime. And opened up the path for Marquez to join Repsol Honda while saving Pedrosa's Honda career for 5 more yrs)

8. Rossi to Yamaha - 2004 (Superstar moving to another team, also proving Honda wrong that 'anyone could win on their bike. They were not a consistent championship winner for another 8 yrs)

7. Stoner to Ducati - 2007 (Unexpected dominance, proving Stoner as a top MotoGP rider. Cause of Michelin leaving MotoGP a year later)

6. Marquez to Honda - 2013 (Rookie Champion, started the Marquez era)

5. Lorenzo to Repsol Honda - 2019 (So much promise, but ultimately ended his career and contributed to the downfall of Honda)

4. Pedrosa to Honda - 2006 (Pedrosa was the primary reason Honda pushed the 800cc era, and developed the 2007 Pedrocycle)

3. Marquez to Gresini Ducati - 2024 (No explanation needed)

2. Rossi to Yamaha - 2013 (Arguably was the contributing factor to the whole 2015 animosity, which resonates in the sport to this day)

1. Rossi to Ducati - 2011 (Abject failure which arguably considerably dropped Rossi's stock, and also finally proved that the Ducati was a dog which lead to them hiring Gigi Dallignia and opening up the dominance they currently have. It also pushed Stoners stock through the roof)

What are your guys?

MdubSTYLIE · Sep 10, 2024

I really only have two moves.

Rossi to Yamaha and Marc to Gresini.

Stoner to Ducati seemed like a normal move to me. I thought he showed a lot of promise on the Honda so that move seemed like a normal good choice.

If we are considering moves like Rossi to Ducati, a total failure, to be part of this list than I will add Zarco to KTM.

I guess my third would be Crutchlow to retirement. He saved manufactures a lot of money on broken parts and gravel was marked safe from Cal Crutchlow.

JPSLotus · Sep 10, 2024

I think Casey going to Ducati for 2007 was one of the, if not most significant move of the last 20 years in my opinion.

It completely changed the trajectory of Ducati even if they did get things wrong as it related to chassis development. Though I still wonder about what might have been with the carbon fiber GP9 had his health not taken the turn it did in 2009. He thought it the bike could have won the title in 2009. Certainly the results do bear out that it was a very capable bike that simply came at the wrong time.

Without Casey, Valentino would never have gone to Ducati because of his belief that the bike rode itself. Even if his results were not really great over the 2 seasons he rode for them, it did wake Borgo Panigale up from complacency and arrogance.

But regarding Casey, the way he was treated there opened the door to Honda till his shock retirement in 2012 which completely opened the door for Marc Marquez as already mentioned. Casey's decisions had a huge ripple effect for multiple teams. Jorge couldn't beat Casey in a straight fight which prevented what would have likely been a 6th world championship for him as Andrea Dovizioso and Dani Pedrosa were not going to beat him in 2011. Only Casey could. Then Lorenzo did win his 2012 title entirely because of Stoner getting injured.

The world revolved around Casey for close to 2 decades in my opinion as his impact was still being felt well past his retirement.

MdubSTYLIE · Sep 10, 2024

JPSLotus said:
I think Casey going to Ducati for 2007 was one of the, if not most significant move of the last 20 years in my opinion.

It completely changed the trajectory of Ducati even if they did get things wrong as it related to chassis development. Though I still wonder about what might have been with the carbon fiber GP9 had his health not taken the turn it did in 2009. He thought it the bike could have won the title in 2009. Certainly the results do bear out that it was a very capable bike that simply came at the wrong time.

Without Casey, Valentino would never have gone to Ducati because of his belief that the bike rode itself. Even if his results were not really great over the 2 seasons he rode for them, it did wake Borgo Panigale up from complacency and arrogance.

But regarding Casey, the way he was treated there opened the door to Honda till his shock retirement in 2012 which completely opened the door for Marc Marquez as already mentioned. Casey's decisions had a huge ripple effect for multiple teams. Jorge couldn't beat Casey in a straight fight which prevented what would have likely been a 6th world championship for him as Andrea Dovizioso and Dani Pedrosa were not going to beat him in 2011. Only Casey could. Then Lorenzo did win his 2012 title entirely because of Stoner getting injured.

The world revolved around Casey for close to 2 decades in my opinion as his impact was still being felt well past his retirement.

Ok you sold me on that being top 3 but the move initially wasn't that shocking to me. The results on the other hand were.

JPSLotus · Sep 10, 2024

MdubSTYLIE said:
Ok you sold me on that being top 3 but the move initially wasn't that shocking to me. The results on the other hand were.

Here's another one for you that I just thought about.

We have had a spec tire since 2009 entirely because of what Casey was doing with the Bridgestones in 2007 which again led to the false belief the bike "rode itself" and that the only way to win was to be on Bridgestones. Either way 2009 hit and it's been a one manufacturer tire series for 15 years now.

MdubSTYLIE · Sep 10, 2024

JPSLotus said:
Here's another one for you that I just thought about.

We have had a spec tire since 2009 entirely because of what Casey was doing with the Bridgestones in 2007 which again led to the false belief the bike "rode itself" and that the only way to win was to be on Bridgestones. Either way 2009 hit and it's been a one manufacturer tire series for 15 years now.

I despise the spec tire. I think every manufacturer should be allowed to have a tire that suits their bikes needs. I do believe that the other bikes would be able to hang with Ducati better if they had a tire that suits their bikes needs.

#22 · Sep 10, 2024

MdubSTYLIE said:
I really only have two moves.

Rossi to Yamaha and Marc to Gresini.

Stoner to Ducati seemed like a normal move to me. I thought he showed a lot of promise on the Honda so that move seemed like a normal good choice.

Except that he was Ducati's 3rd (and last?) choice for a rider. So much so, I think he was paid pennies on the dollar and his dad negotiated a huge win bonus in his contract. Had they got Melandri or Hayden, their number 1 and 2 choices, the MotoGP landscape would be much different now.

MdubSTYLIE said:
If we are considering moves like Rossi to Ducati, a total failure, to be part of this list than I will add Zarco to KTM.

I guess my third would be Crutchlow to retirement. He saved manufactures a lot of money on broken parts and gravel was marked safe from Cal Crutchlow.

Well yes, they were total failures, but did Zarco's failure cause KTM to totally redesign their bike and later dominate the sport? Not really. Zarco's failure is under the same umbrella as Melandri's failure at Ducati, or countless other riders who have failed to gel with a different brand.

JPSLotus said:
I think Casey going to Ducati for 2007 was one of the, if not most significant move of the last 20 years in my opinion.

It completely changed the trajectory of Ducati even if they did get things wrong as it related to chassis development. Though I still wonder about what might have been with the carbon fiber GP9 had his health not taken the turn it did in 2009. He thought it the bike could have won the title in 2009. Certainly the results do bear out that it was a very capable bike that simply came at the wrong time.

Without Casey, Valentino would never have gone to Ducati because of his belief that the bike rode itself. Even if his results were not really great over the 2 seasons he rode for them, it did wake Borgo Panigale up from complacency and arrogance.

But regarding Casey, the way he was treated there opened the door to Honda till his shock retirement in 2012 which completely opened the door for Marc Marquez as already mentioned. Casey's decisions had a huge ripple effect for multiple teams. Jorge couldn't beat Casey in a straight fight which prevented what would have likely been a 6th world championship for him as Andrea Dovizioso and Dani Pedrosa were not going to beat him in 2011. Only Casey could. Then Lorenzo did win his 2012 title entirely because of Stoner getting injured.

The world revolved around Casey for close to 2 decades in my opinion as his impact was still being felt well past his retirement.

I have Rossi's move to Ducati as #7 because of this. But thinking about it, you make a very good point. Rossi likely moved to Ducati because he thought the bike was more competitive than it was.

JPSLotus said:
Here's another one for you that I just thought about.

We have had a spec tire since 2009 entirely because of what Casey was doing with the Bridgestones in 2007 which again led to the false belief the bike "rode itself" and that the only way to win was to be on Bridgestones. Either way 2009 hit and it's been a one manufacturer tire series for 15 years now.

Exactly. Rossi wanted the Bridgestone because he thought it was a significant portion of Stoners success, and he get them. This lead to other top riders getting them, and eventually us being left with a single tyre supplier. What direction would Ducati have taken had Michelin agreed to supply them from 2009 onwards? How would a tyre war have affected the landscape of the 2010's?

Loving this discussion!

JPSLotus · Sep 10, 2024

This is a great convo guys! This is really making me think about the ripple effect of certain moves over the last 2 decades.

Another move that had major implications down the road was Ben Spies at Yamaha in 2011 and 2012. If he doesn't make the decision regarding bringing his own people into the garage and just went with the Yamaha folks, does he get punted out of Yamaha? But regardless of whether he did or didn't, his results ultimately paved the way for Rossi to comeback to Yamaha in 2013. And from there all roads led to Sepang 2015 which I personally believe was the impetus and motivation for Marc to go on his title rampage to close out the 2010's.

#22 · Sep 10, 2024

Spies was a dead man walking the moment Rossi wanted out of Ducati imo. Honda didn't want Rossi back, and Yamaha were not going to let go of Jorge.

Hollywood · Sep 10, 2024

are we talking about moves that were successful or just big money moves?

you could make a case for Dovi moving to Ducati, helped bring about the Gigi era at Ducati.

#22 · Sep 10, 2024

Neither specifically. Some on my list were successful, some weren't, somewhere big money/names, some weren't. It's more about looking at the grand scheme and how some of those moves affected the bigger picture. As has been noted. Rossi's move to Yamaha in 2004 is probably only matched by Marquez to Gresini/factory Ducati in terms of the wow factor. But, smaller moves like Stoner to Ducati had a huge butterfly effect.

Sennas_Caress · Sep 10, 2024

I'll stick my neck out and say I'm not surprised that Marc went for Gresini, when he decided that he was fit enough for at least another championship fight and that he could not wait for HRC to get its act together.

There is only one good bike on the grid.
His brother is in the team.
He knows Dall'Igna likes him.
He knows every contract for 25 - 26 is in play.

#22 · Sep 10, 2024

June 12th, 2023, Mdub nailed it.

MdubSTYLIE said:
If Marc got out and if Fabio got out of their contracts where could they end up? My guess is Marc along side his brother at Gresini and Fabio to aprillia. Raul out of gp as he should be. I could see Martin go to Yamaha because a factory seat is a factory seat. He lost his chance at ducati so why not. It doesn't seem like a good switch but being the #1 rider on a factory team is always appealing. Arbolino won't be going to VR46 since he is no longer part of the vr46 funny farm, but I do believe he will be on a ducati. So Zarco will be out maybe his only option will be Honda so by default he could end up there or out. More than likely Marc will stay at honda which means none of this will be anything but a fairytale. I think there is a higher chance of Fabio leaving but I still doubt it.

It is now known, that basically he showed interest in Gresini for a long time in 2023, but wanted to give Honda time. Gresini, to their credit, said, 'Take your time' and he even said if they find a rider, then go for it. We all know that the crunch point was after the Misano test, when he trialed the 2024 Honda.

It wasn't a 'bombshell' move to those who follow the sport closely, but it was to outsiders. The biggest name in the sport breaking a lucrative contract to ride for a customer team. Also, in the spirit of this thread, who knows what ripple effects it will have? IF Marquez won the 2025 and 2026 world titles, would Bagnaia leave the team that formed him? For example.

MdubSTYLIE · Sep 10, 2024

#22 said:
June 12th, 2023, Mdub nailed it.

It is now known, that basically he showed interest in Gresini for a long time in 2023, but wanted to give Honda time. Gresini, to their credit, said, 'Take your time' and he even said if they find a rider, then go for it. We all know that the crunch point was after the Misano test, when he trialed the 2024 Honda.

It wasn't a 'bombshell' move to those who follow the sport closely, but it was to outsiders. The biggest name in the sport breaking a lucrative contract to ride for a customer team. Also, in the spirit of this thread, who knows what ripple effects it will have? IF Marquez won the 2025 and 2026 world titles, would Bagnaia leave the team that formed him? For example.

It just seemed like the most logical and plausible move to me. I'm still disappointed that Fabio didn't do the same.

As for Bag I could see him leaving for honda or yamaha if they have their .... together by then. I would say honda most likely since Fabio has shown he is going to be staying there. Honda won't have a top rider before then so its possible they could offer bags the bag.

Martins move to Aprillia could go on the list. Regardless of how it turns out it will either be a smart move or most likely just another blunder in his career. Either way it makes the list. But honestly knowing what we know now, where else was he going to go? Pramac leaving means there was no ducati seat left for him on a current spec bike. Regardless the move was so rash to make it the same day he found out he Marc got the factory seat.

warthog1 · Sep 10, 2024

Lets also not forget Marc got the spot at the factory Ducati team next year without having won a race. What he can do on a bike creates a big ripple for others if he is not tied up.
It wasn't a ripple there it was a wave. The most important/preferred seat sewn up and the splash it made forced the other moves.

MichaelBolton · Sep 10, 2024

MdubSTYLIE said:
Martins move to Aprillia could go on the list. Regardless of how it turns out it will either be a smart move or most likely just another blunder in his career. Either way it makes the list. But honestly knowing what we know now, where else was he going to go? Pramac leaving means there was no ducati seat left for him on a current spec bike. Regardless the move was so rash to make it the same day he found out he Marc got the factory seat.

Sadly there's no right choice outside of Ducati. When you think Aprilia have figured it out, they start having an awful form for several races and looking clueless. KTM is also similar in that they have moments that make you hopeful just to be anonymous for several races. The Japanese manufacturers, well, we know what's going on. Martín needs to win this season or else it's very probable that he doesn't get a shot at it ever again and ends up as a modern day Gibernau, who fought for the championship in a satellite squad for two years before becoming irrelevant. Still hope the Aprilia comes alive under the right hands, but the last stretch has been brutal for them.

Anyways, if I were to rate the current alternatives to Ducati based on short to medium term hopes, I'd go with KTM > Aprilia = Yamaha > Honda. And I only put Aprilia and Yamaha on equal terms because I believe the latter are perhaps better suited to get out of their current slump, even though I believe the Aprilia is a better bike currently. But as I said, impressions seem to change every month.

MdubSTYLIE · Sep 10, 2024

MichaelBolton said:
Sadly there's no right choice outside of Ducati. When you think Aprilia have figured it out, they start having an awful form for several races and looking clueless. KTM is also similar in that they have moments that make you hopeful just to be anonymous for several races. The Japanese manufacturers, well, we know what's going on. Martín needs to win this season or else it's very probable that he doesn't get a shot at it ever again and ends up as a modern day Gibernau, who fought for the championship in a satellite squad for two years before becoming irrelevant. Still hope the Aprilia comes alive under the right hands, but the last stretch has been brutal for them.

Anyways, if I were to rate the current alternatives to Ducati based on short to medium term hopes, I'd go with KTM > Aprilia = Yamaha > Honda. And I only put Aprilia and Yamaha on equal terms because I believe the latter are perhaps better suited to get out of their current slump, even though I believe the Aprilia is a better bike currently. But as I said, impressions seem to change every month.

I agree with your order of bike choices. My issue isn't with Martin choosing Aprilia its how fast he made the choice. He signed the same day he was on the market. Thats nuts. He was by far the hottest commodity at that point. He needed to hear out the other manufacturers and get the best choice while also starting a bidding war for him. Every girl at the party wanted to .... him and he stuck his .... in the first open mouth.

Hollywood · Sep 10, 2024

It seemed as if Aprilia already had offers on the table for several riders, Matin and Marquez included. I dont blame Martin for jumping on the deal, Ducati were screwing him around, and at the time it seemed like the Aprilia was the next best bike on the grid.

warthog1 · Sep 10, 2024

Ktm has their eggs in the Acosta basket too. I agree Aprilia was the best choice at the time.

AnnoyingTwit · Sep 11, 2024

In addition to the above, Quartararo to Petronas Yamaha in 2019. A champion bit of talent spotting there.

Troy Bayliss filling in for Sete Gibernau in Valencia 2006.

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Top 10 MotoGP rider moves of the MotoGP era.

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