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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 19 2008, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://superbikeplanet.com/2008/Jul/080719a.htm
Sounds like what we wanted.
What a complete turnaround.
Pretty stupid using "Superbike in each title though"
Which class are they going to put the 50 grand purse in.
The 600 class seems more like supersport than FX or am I wrong?
Sounds like what we wanted.
What a complete turnaround.
Pretty stupid using "Superbike in each title though"
Which class are they going to put the 50 grand purse in.
The 600 class seems more like supersport than FX or am I wrong?
Kiss the AMA goodbye.
Convention was never going to save the series. This is a huge defeat for American racing fans who knew risks needed to be taken. There have been a grass-roots movement to create a spec bike series since the AMA lost control to the Japanese manufacturers. I really thought it was going to come to light.
If DMG had never suggested the elimination of the 1000cc class, none of this would have happened. But instead the Japanese, the riders , and the fans went into complete panic. DMG could easily have used performance formulas to limit the 1000cc bikes, while removing TC and other such devices. Instead they used sledgehammer diplomacy and then they caved when they realized they might impair the investment they had made just a few months prior. Edmonson needs to be fired. How do you manage to convince a mass of disgruntled fans who are ready for change that change is the enemy? DMG hasn't even governed a single race and they are already more loathed than the people who ruined the series in the first place.
Now DMG are going to use their marketing army to attempt to freshen up an already tired sport. There efforts will be a complete abomination of human decency but they will work. The sport will slowly improve thus stifling any fundamental improvement to the series.
Sad. Pathetic. Defeatist. Un-American.
Convention was never going to save the series. This is a huge defeat for American racing fans who knew risks needed to be taken. There have been a grass-roots movement to create a spec bike series since the AMA lost control to the Japanese manufacturers. I really thought it was going to come to light.
If DMG had never suggested the elimination of the 1000cc class, none of this would have happened. But instead the Japanese, the riders , and the fans went into complete panic. DMG could easily have used performance formulas to limit the 1000cc bikes, while removing TC and other such devices. Instead they used sledgehammer diplomacy and then they caved when they realized they might impair the investment they had made just a few months prior. Edmonson needs to be fired. How do you manage to convince a mass of disgruntled fans who are ready for change that change is the enemy? DMG hasn't even governed a single race and they are already more loathed than the people who ruined the series in the first place.
Now DMG are going to use their marketing army to attempt to freshen up an already tired sport. There efforts will be a complete abomination of human decency but they will work. The sport will slowly improve thus stifling any fundamental improvement to the series.
Sad. Pathetic. Defeatist. Un-American.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 22 2008, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Kiss the AMA goodbye.
And what is this
Time will be built into each race weekend format to allow for local special activities, fan-walks on pit road, extended pre-race rider introductions, and post-race podium celebrations, complete with public rider interviews for fans and private briefings for the press.
IT'S THE RACING PEOPLE, not all of THIS!\
kinda like those walks on pit road though
And what is this
Time will be built into each race weekend format to allow for local special activities, fan-walks on pit road, extended pre-race rider introductions, and post-race podium celebrations, complete with public rider interviews for fans and private briefings for the press.
IT'S THE RACING PEOPLE, not all of THIS!\
kinda like those walks on pit road though
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Jul 20 2008, 01:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sounds like what we wanted.
What a complete turnaround.
Pretty stupid using "Superbike in each title though"
Which class are they going to put the 50 grand purse in.
The 600 class seems more like supersport than FX or am I wrong?
Here is what we got so far.Superbike is now Factory Superbike
Superstock is now American Superbike
Supersport is now Daytona Superbike
Formula Exteme is gone,replaced by Moto ST endurance racing and it looks like some venues will display the Reb Bull Cup..No your not wrong,FX bikes pushed well in excess off 140 hp.Daytona Superbike is the old Supersport,plain and simple with a twist.Dyno testing after each race to insure no one is over 120 Hp.
I still have questions,such as,which series will be the feature series that runs 2 races per event.
What a complete turnaround.
Pretty stupid using "Superbike in each title though"
Which class are they going to put the 50 grand purse in.
The 600 class seems more like supersport than FX or am I wrong?
Here is what we got so far.Superbike is now Factory Superbike
Superstock is now American Superbike
Supersport is now Daytona Superbike
Formula Exteme is gone,replaced by Moto ST endurance racing and it looks like some venues will display the Reb Bull Cup..No your not wrong,FX bikes pushed well in excess off 140 hp.Daytona Superbike is the old Supersport,plain and simple with a twist.Dyno testing after each race to insure no one is over 120 Hp.
I still have questions,such as,which series will be the feature series that runs 2 races per event.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (machmanzx10r @ Jul 23 2008, 01:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am still confused as to why in Daytona Superbike, they are allowing 1200cc V-Twins? That means that someone can run a 1098 in that class.....and which bike is going to keep up with that?
AMA Racing Promotion (or whatever DMG is calling itself now) has control over which bikes get run and which don't. The 1200cc rule is probably intended for aircooled 1200's (BMW). I highly doubt DMG would allow Ducati to run a watercooled 1098 when an 848 is more appropriate for the category.
AMA Racing Promotion (or whatever DMG is calling itself now) has control over which bikes get run and which don't. The 1200cc rule is probably intended for aircooled 1200's (BMW). I highly doubt DMG would allow Ducati to run a watercooled 1098 when an 848 is more appropriate for the category.
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If you think DMG's initial plan would have worked, then read this article carefully:
http://www.sportscarpros.com/soares-says/2...ers/default.htm
Non-NASCAR fans do not want to see the machines watered down for the sake of nose-to-tail racing. Look at Grand-Am. They lowered the bar and ended up with a glorified club series that survives on France family subsidies. If the 600s ended up ruling the roost, they likely would have received as much enthusiasm as the Daytona Prototypes.
Now would the plan have worked with 1000s? I would have liked to see them try. Now we have a class structure every bit as confusing as the one now, and only slightly less redundant. Sure, we're not going to get the big change the series needed, but at least it can't be decimated by a 600cc premier class.
http://www.sportscarpros.com/soares-says/2...ers/default.htm
Non-NASCAR fans do not want to see the machines watered down for the sake of nose-to-tail racing. Look at Grand-Am. They lowered the bar and ended up with a glorified club series that survives on France family subsidies. If the 600s ended up ruling the roost, they likely would have received as much enthusiasm as the Daytona Prototypes.
Now would the plan have worked with 1000s? I would have liked to see them try. Now we have a class structure every bit as confusing as the one now, and only slightly less redundant. Sure, we're not going to get the big change the series needed, but at least it can't be decimated by a 600cc premier class.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Jul 23 2008, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you think DMG's initial plan would have worked, then read this article carefully:
http://www.sportscarpros.com/soares-says/2...ers/default.htm
Non-NASCAR fans do not want to see the machines watered down for the sake of nose-to-tail racing. Look at Grand-Am. They lowered the bar and ended up with a glorified club series that survives on France family subsidies. If the 600s ended up ruling the roost, they likely would have received as much enthusiasm as the Daytona Prototypes.
Now would the plan have worked with 1000s? I would have liked to see them try. Now we have a class structure every bit as confusing as the one now, and only slightly less redundant. Sure, we're not going to get the big change the series needed, but at least it can't be decimated by a 600cc premier class.
Hmmmmm.
So everything is more or less the same and DMG are now staring at a wonderful 2-wheeled heap of negative income.
So the only thing they can do to rejuvenate the sport is bring TV cameras, marketers, and a giant pile of gold.
So two things can happen from here:
1. The sport fails miserably and fearful, vengeful fans cheer as DMG packs up shop and leaves.
2. DMG buys every circuit in America, kicks the Japanese out, then runs a highly televised billion dollar 2-wheeled carnival complete with clowns, scripts, and freakshows.
Thank you, Shupe. I'll remember you in my will.
http://www.sportscarpros.com/soares-says/2...ers/default.htm
Non-NASCAR fans do not want to see the machines watered down for the sake of nose-to-tail racing. Look at Grand-Am. They lowered the bar and ended up with a glorified club series that survives on France family subsidies. If the 600s ended up ruling the roost, they likely would have received as much enthusiasm as the Daytona Prototypes.
Now would the plan have worked with 1000s? I would have liked to see them try. Now we have a class structure every bit as confusing as the one now, and only slightly less redundant. Sure, we're not going to get the big change the series needed, but at least it can't be decimated by a 600cc premier class.
Hmmmmm.
So everything is more or less the same and DMG are now staring at a wonderful 2-wheeled heap of negative income.
So the only thing they can do to rejuvenate the sport is bring TV cameras, marketers, and a giant pile of gold.
So two things can happen from here:
1. The sport fails miserably and fearful, vengeful fans cheer as DMG packs up shop and leaves.
2. DMG buys every circuit in America, kicks the Japanese out, then runs a highly televised billion dollar 2-wheeled carnival complete with clowns, scripts, and freakshows.
Thank you, Shupe. I'll remember you in my will.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 23 2008, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'll remember you in my will.
can I get in the will, BUDDY
can I get in the will, BUDDY
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kngadrok @ Jul 23 2008, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>can I get in the will, BUDDY
Sure, you can have my gambling debts.
I have realized there is still a glimmer of hope. American superbike is more or less what the sport needed. In time it will eclipse the exhibition of factory superbike because the racing will be vastly superior.
If the factories learn how to brand it will thrive. If they continue to proliferate the myth that new fairings = vastly superior technology or if they continue to buy magazine staffs to give their products street cred, nothing is going to improve.
I have realized there is still a glimmer of hope. American superbike is more or less what the sport needed. In time it will eclipse the exhibition of factory superbike because the racing will be vastly superior.
If the factories learn how to brand it will thrive. If they continue to proliferate the myth that new fairings = vastly superior technology or if they continue to buy magazine staffs to give their products street cred, nothing is going to improve.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 24 2008, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
Sure, you can have my gambling debts.
I have realized there is still a glimmer of hope. American superbike is more or less what the sport needed. In time it will eclipse the exhibition of factory superbike because the racing will be vastly superior.
If the factories learn how to brand it will thrive. If they continue to proliferate the myth that new fairings = vastly superior technology or if they continue to buy magazine staffs to give their products street cred, nothing is going to improve.
What do I get lex?
The American Superbike class strikes me as DMG's way of maintaining some control. The factories got a factory 1000cc class out of it, but Roger threw in a more privateer-friendly version to go along with it. So unless the factories are willing to subsidize satellite teams in the factory class, it may have to struggle with small grids.
One of the ideas I liked was the standard bike setup. This sort of control is one of the few things they got right with Grand-Am. There still is some level of R&D going on over there, only it's made available to all.
I have realized there is still a glimmer of hope. American superbike is more or less what the sport needed. In time it will eclipse the exhibition of factory superbike because the racing will be vastly superior.
If the factories learn how to brand it will thrive. If they continue to proliferate the myth that new fairings = vastly superior technology or if they continue to buy magazine staffs to give their products street cred, nothing is going to improve.
What do I get lex?
The American Superbike class strikes me as DMG's way of maintaining some control. The factories got a factory 1000cc class out of it, but Roger threw in a more privateer-friendly version to go along with it. So unless the factories are willing to subsidize satellite teams in the factory class, it may have to struggle with small grids.
One of the ideas I liked was the standard bike setup. This sort of control is one of the few things they got right with Grand-Am. There still is some level of R&D going on over there, only it's made available to all.
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I hope if DMG makes a series they really look at the rest of the world and what is the norm and I can say it sure as hell aint a 600cc bike. Plus the whole Daytona superbike thing is wayyyy gayyyy!!! ...... ....'s. I don't want to see ANY refrence to ...... gay ... NASCAR which is full of pussified drivers. GEE go left. Go research the oldest driver to try and qualify for a NASCAR race. Yeah those guys are IN SHAPE. I am really hoping that the Manufactures get together and find a way to make an American Superbike Series. FIM hint hint. I think most of us all know what that DMG series is going to be like. And I really don't want to waste any more time thinking about how they are going to ruin the sport cause they have already shown they have no friggin clue how to do motorcycles.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jul 24 2008, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hope if DMG makes a series they really look at the rest of the world and what is the norm and I can say it sure as hell aint a 600cc bike. Plus the whole Daytona superbike thing is wayyyy gayyyy!!! ...... ....'s. I don't want to see ANY refrence to ...... gay ... NASCAR which is full of pussified drivers. GEE go left. Go research the oldest driver to try and qualify for a NASCAR race. Yeah those guys are IN SHAPE. I am really hoping that the Manufactures get together and find a way to make an American Superbike Series. FIM hint hint. I think most of us all know what that DMG series is going to be like. And I really don't want to waste any more time thinking about how they are going to ruin the sport cause they have already shown they have no friggin clue how to do motorcycles.
How many times do you expect race promoters to try to outdo one another using the exact same competitive model?
Why is everyone stuck in a box? Motorcycle road racing fans have MotoGP; WSBK, European road racing (TT), & one make series'. Motorcycling audiences are generally pretty small on a nation by nation basis, so the only way to build a healthy motorcycling series is to innovate and attract global audiences.
Europe has already perfected or entrenched the existing road racing formats. Trying to outspend them will only lead to price wars and the destruction of motorcycle road racing. Innovation is the only way the AMA can survive. The AMA is not capable of beating any of the major motorcycle racing series at their own game, and the American motorcycling market isn't big enough for the AMA to be nationally oriented with a conventional format (history has already proved that).
Spec/stock bike is about the only thing that hasn't been tried in motorcycle racing and SURPRISE! it happens to be DMG's core competency. It's not going to end up like NASCAR. They don't race in ovals, they don't add lead weights to the frame, and they won't run carburetors.
It would be quite easy for DMG to issue an RFP to all the Japanese manufacturers for a spec bike or at least major spec components. The Japanese manufacturers could easily produce something that would be nearly equal to a WSBK machine at a fraction of the cost.
Sadly, while we sit here in the motorcycling stone age, masochistically whining for further injury to the AMA (simply to spite DMG), DORNA (the real evil empire) have already realized the spec-bike opportunity and has mobilized to implement such a series by 2011.
The best opportunity for American motorcycle racing is to capitalize on its newfound flexibility and to mobilize a superior spec series (performance and entertainment wise) before the hulking GP juggernaut shows up to put a monopolistic stranglehold on a decent racing format. We all know Americans can run a much better spec series than the motorcycling soap opera that is GP.
The Japanese proposed/encouraged/helped with DORNA spec series. They would have done the same here in America if the fans hadn't written the American manufacturing subsidiaries a blank check to continue the for-profit ruination of our national series.
Your arguments are simply anti-DMG ramblings. What has that got to do with rebuilding the AMA?
How many times do you expect race promoters to try to outdo one another using the exact same competitive model?
Why is everyone stuck in a box? Motorcycle road racing fans have MotoGP; WSBK, European road racing (TT), & one make series'. Motorcycling audiences are generally pretty small on a nation by nation basis, so the only way to build a healthy motorcycling series is to innovate and attract global audiences.
Europe has already perfected or entrenched the existing road racing formats. Trying to outspend them will only lead to price wars and the destruction of motorcycle road racing. Innovation is the only way the AMA can survive. The AMA is not capable of beating any of the major motorcycle racing series at their own game, and the American motorcycling market isn't big enough for the AMA to be nationally oriented with a conventional format (history has already proved that).
Spec/stock bike is about the only thing that hasn't been tried in motorcycle racing and SURPRISE! it happens to be DMG's core competency. It's not going to end up like NASCAR. They don't race in ovals, they don't add lead weights to the frame, and they won't run carburetors.
It would be quite easy for DMG to issue an RFP to all the Japanese manufacturers for a spec bike or at least major spec components. The Japanese manufacturers could easily produce something that would be nearly equal to a WSBK machine at a fraction of the cost.
Sadly, while we sit here in the motorcycling stone age, masochistically whining for further injury to the AMA (simply to spite DMG), DORNA (the real evil empire) have already realized the spec-bike opportunity and has mobilized to implement such a series by 2011.
The best opportunity for American motorcycle racing is to capitalize on its newfound flexibility and to mobilize a superior spec series (performance and entertainment wise) before the hulking GP juggernaut shows up to put a monopolistic stranglehold on a decent racing format. We all know Americans can run a much better spec series than the motorcycling soap opera that is GP.
The Japanese proposed/encouraged/helped with DORNA spec series. They would have done the same here in America if the fans hadn't written the American manufacturing subsidiaries a blank check to continue the for-profit ruination of our national series.
Your arguments are simply anti-DMG ramblings. What has that got to do with rebuilding the AMA?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jul 25 2008, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well i guess now were just gonna have to wait & see what happens in the comming seasons.
Well according to this, there might be some big changes as soon as next season.
Well according to this, there might be some big changes as soon as next season.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Helix @ Aug 4 2008, 05:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well according to this, there might be some big changes as soon as next season.
yeah i've been wondering if the factories really would start thier own series. what a cluster ....!
yeah i've been wondering if the factories really would start thier own series. what a cluster ....!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Helix @ Aug 4 2008, 02:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well according to this, there might be some big changes as soon as next season.
Are those factories still racing in the liter class?
Everyone on Suzukis?--a less glamorous way to achieve the exact same results DMG were looking for in the first place. Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki have been caught out in the cold.
Just 2 months ago they could have cozied up to DMG and kicked Suzuki out, now they are REALLY yesterday's news. Stupid .......s.
I have to hand it to Edmonson. He's a tyrannical buffoon, but his political maneuvering is unprecedented.
Are those factories still racing in the liter class?
Everyone on Suzukis?--a less glamorous way to achieve the exact same results DMG were looking for in the first place. Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki have been caught out in the cold.
Just 2 months ago they could have cozied up to DMG and kicked Suzuki out, now they are REALLY yesterday's news. Stupid .......s.
I have to hand it to Edmonson. He's a tyrannical buffoon, but his political maneuvering is unprecedented.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 4 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have to hand it to Edmonson. He's a tyrannical buffoon, but his political maneuvering is unprecedented.
It sure is! I think you're going to get that 600 series you were so wanting to see, lex.
Despite the announcement of the Factory and American superbike classes, the Daytona Superbike class will apparently be billed as the main attraction (double headers). In addition, it doesn't look like either of the two big bike classes are set to receive the same prize money payouts that the 600 class will. So, with double-header weekends and good prize money up for grabs, where is the incentive to run a 1000?
NASCAR has a big policy: NEVER admit to being wrong. One needs to look no further than the recent, post-Brickyard backpedalling to see that ("no one is to blame"). They're trying to set the 1000cc classes up for failure so they can say, "see, I told ya so."
If they carry through with these plans, then DMG might be paying a lot of subsidies to make up for lost promotion and salary money from the factories.
It sure is! I think you're going to get that 600 series you were so wanting to see, lex.
Despite the announcement of the Factory and American superbike classes, the Daytona Superbike class will apparently be billed as the main attraction (double headers). In addition, it doesn't look like either of the two big bike classes are set to receive the same prize money payouts that the 600 class will. So, with double-header weekends and good prize money up for grabs, where is the incentive to run a 1000?
NASCAR has a big policy: NEVER admit to being wrong. One needs to look no further than the recent, post-Brickyard backpedalling to see that ("no one is to blame"). They're trying to set the 1000cc classes up for failure so they can say, "see, I told ya so."
If they carry through with these plans, then DMG might be paying a lot of subsidies to make up for lost promotion and salary money from the factories.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Aug 6 2008, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It sure is! I think you're going to get that 600 series you were so wanting to see, lex.
Despite the announcement of the Factory and American superbike classes, the Daytona Superbike class will apparently be billed as the main attraction (double headers). In addition, it doesn't look like either of the two big bike classes are set to receive the same prize money payouts that the 600 class will. So, with double-header weekends and good prize money up for grabs, where is the incentive to run a 1000?
NASCAR has a big policy: NEVER admit to being wrong. One needs to look no further than the recent, post-Brickyard backpedalling to see that ("no one is to blame"). They're trying to set the 1000cc classes up for failure so they can say, "see, I told ya so."
If they carry through with these plans, then DMG might be paying a lot of subsidies to make up for lost promotion and salary money from the factories.
The factories won't stand for DMG much longer since they need to renew contracts for all team members. I read an article I think on Superbike planet that said they needed to get things done since all the team members and their families are all in limbo right now. If anything happens to surface of real substance I would bet all the manufactures will have their own series with FIM rules. This is something all the makers have wanted for a long time.
Despite the announcement of the Factory and American superbike classes, the Daytona Superbike class will apparently be billed as the main attraction (double headers). In addition, it doesn't look like either of the two big bike classes are set to receive the same prize money payouts that the 600 class will. So, with double-header weekends and good prize money up for grabs, where is the incentive to run a 1000?
NASCAR has a big policy: NEVER admit to being wrong. One needs to look no further than the recent, post-Brickyard backpedalling to see that ("no one is to blame"). They're trying to set the 1000cc classes up for failure so they can say, "see, I told ya so."
If they carry through with these plans, then DMG might be paying a lot of subsidies to make up for lost promotion and salary money from the factories.
The factories won't stand for DMG much longer since they need to renew contracts for all team members. I read an article I think on Superbike planet that said they needed to get things done since all the team members and their families are all in limbo right now. If anything happens to surface of real substance I would bet all the manufactures will have their own series with FIM rules. This is something all the makers have wanted for a long time.
