Sure sign Rossi is feeling his age

JKant said:

The day of the pot-bellied chess grandmaster has gone as well. But a high degree of fitness is still not intrinsic to the game.

Much like say.. a professional tennis player, an individual cannot be overweight and be a MotoGP racer. But if he's got the requisite talent, he can still be a NASCAR driver.

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maybe not MotoGP, but certainly IOM...

During Quali 2 they were saying MM might have had a ..... in his armor. Maybe Yamaha will have to make a knock-off of that t shirt for the old man.

Keshav said:

....... A. I can't say watching NASCAR on TV is very exciting but live is a whole other experience. Daytona is not the slickest layout but - I've ridden there and I'll say this.... I dare anyone to walk along the top of the banking and look down into the bowl and say with a straight face that it doesn't take serious huevos to ride up there at 200 mph. I took a crew member out to walk the track one time and he got light headed just looking down while walking along the top of the banking. AKV80 - that roll bar cage don't mean .... if you crash at the top of the banking, which is like falling off a 4 story building while strapped to a tank filled with 24 gallons of rocket fuel.

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Cant say I've been to Daytona, but i have been around Bob Janes Thunderdome at Calder Park in Melbourne, I grew up within about 2 kms to the facility. it is a much smaller oval of 1.1miles but with 24 degree banked corners. Not as severe as Daytona's 31 degree banked corners but sorry to disappoint you it didn't frighten me either driving around it or riding our BMX bikes around it as kids when we would break in like ratbags. You may think the roll cage doesn't do ...., id disagree but either way its a hell of a lot safer than having to just relying on your clothing to protect you.

AJV80 said:

Cant say I've been to Daytona, but i have been around Bob Janes Thunderdome at Calder Park in Melbourne, I grew up within about 2 kms to the facility. it is a much smaller oval of 1.1miles but with 24 degree banked corners. Not as severe as Daytona's 31 degree banked corners but sorry to disappoint you it didn't frighten me either driving around it or riding our BMX bikes around it as kids when we would break in like ratbags. You may think the roll cage doesn't do ...., id disagree but either way its a hell of a lot safer than having to just relying on your clothing to protect you.

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Well that settles it, a BMX bike compared to 200 mph.

povol said:

Well that settles it, a BMX bike compared to 200 mph.

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Ive driven a V8 sedan around the track too, not a Nascar though. You ever driven a V8 sedan around an oval track?

When I went they didn't offer that nascar style cars they do now and instead used the V8 Holden commodore cars that you could also ride on the flat track circuit at the same facility. Nascar's would be a cool experience to try, but in all honesty was nothing near as intense as when i do track days on my bike.

AJV80 said:

Ive driven a V8 sedan around the track too, not a Nascar though. You ever driven a V8 sedan around an oval track?

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What v8 sedan?

p4p1 said:

What v8 sedan?

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Holden Commodore, they have a LS 6.0litre V8 engine similar to the ones used in corvettes. They use these cars in the V8 supercar series in Australia (Bathurst last weekend) and they are a common locally made car here. They dress one up into a race car, with fully adjustable suspension and roll cage. The motor in the ones you hire hasn't really had much work done to it over standard, other than pipes, intake and a tune with a 6 speed box. They focus all the attention on its suspension and brakes rather than giving it loads more power. They have an instructor who sits in the car with you and gives you pointers on what to do and lines to take, its a lot of fun and pretty inexpensive. I got shouted one as a present from Mum, she lives near the track and probably did it so I had an excuse to come down and visit. The also offer a drag racing day at the same facility with a weird twin seat dragster they built, it runs 9's or something so its not to intense.

AJV80 said:

Holden Commodore, they have a LS 6.0litre V8 engine similar to the ones used in corvettes. They use these cars in the V8 supercar series in Australia (Bathurst last weekend) and they are a common locally made car here. They dress one up into a race car, with fully adjustable suspension and roll cage. The motor in the ones you hire hasn't really had much work done to it over standard, other than pipes, intake and a tune with a 6 speed box.

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I'm Australian so I know what a commodore is, I don't think your experience is close to what guys at the t level do lap after lap for hours on end. Much like for all we know that Rossis time in the nascar while impressive may have been a one off lap and not something he could replicate lap after lap for a whole race.

This whole argument of it being his age is ridiculous anyway. He never mentioned the recovery process being harder at his age being the problem. He spoke about how if you make one mistake early in the fly always it can ruin your next 2 races and possibly your whole season and the stress of having 3 races in 2 weeks. That's a man that can't handle the pressure like others can, it's the same man who cracked so famously during the fly always last year and cracked the only other time he has been involved in a title race that went down to the wire. His age has nothing to do with it at all, it's his inability to handle stress well. That's not me making up a theory, it's me listening to him during the press conference and noticing that he only mentioned mental aspects.

p4p1 said:

I'm Australian so I know what a commodore is, I don't think your experience is close to what guys at the t level do lap after lap for hours on end. Much like for all we know that Rossis time in the nascar while impressive may have been a one off lap and not something he could replicate lap after lap for a whole race.

This whole argument of it being his age is ridiculous anyway. He never mentioned the recovery process being harder at his age being the problem. He spoke about how if you make one mistake early in the fly always it can ruin your next 2 races and possibly your whole season and the stress of having 3 races in 2 weeks. That's a man that can't handle the pressure like others can, it's the same man who cracked so famously during the fly always last year and cracked the only other time he has been involved in a title race that went down to the wire. His age has nothing to do with it at all, it's his inability to handle stress well. That's not me making up a theory, it's me listening to him during the press conference and noticing that he only mentioned mental aspects.

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Sorry mate, didn't know you where Aussie. I never said my experience was comparable to a 200mph Nascar, just like everyones experience on a track bike isn't comparable to a MotoGP riders experience at pace.

One off lap or not for Rossi, he could jump into a foreign car and post a time similar to what a Nascar champion could after only a day of practice, I'm sure the Nascar champ couldn't do the reverse on the bike with transferring his skill. No doubt the art of Nascar is heavily about race craft and endurance but so is MotoGP to a degree.

i was just making a point to because the thread was giving me the impression that Nascar was somehow being painted as dwarfing MotoGP in terms if risk and intensity. I know i felt a hell of a lot safer in a roll caged car on an oval track compared to when I ride a bike on a track at my skill level comparatively.

Sorry I was going off topic, but just had to correct Povol who was trying to insinuate I was comparing Nascar to when i rode my BMX bike around the track as a kid. I did mention to him that i had driven the track but selective reading had him focus on my BMX comment.

Mick D said:

maybe not MotoGP, but certainly IOM...

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McGuiness is that size to cover his enormous balls.

AJV80 said:

Cant say I've been to Daytona, but i have been around Bob Janes Thunderdome at Calder Park in Melbourne, I grew up within about 2 kms to the facility. it is a much smaller oval of 1.1miles but with 24 degree banked corners. Not as severe as Daytona's 31 degree banked corners but sorry to disappoint you it didn't frighten me either driving around it or riding our BMX bikes around it as kids when we would break in like ratbags. You may think the roll cage doesn't do ...., id disagree but either way its a hell of a lot safer than having to just relying on your clothing to protect you.

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All due respect; Apples and oranges. No comparison. In the event - everybody feels safe in a car, until they've been in a serious smash-up. Bikes are relatively safe when you give it some thought. In most crashes the rider falls free of the bike and very very rarely gets struck by another bike. I've been down at 130 MPH at Mid-Ohio in an endurance race, walked away with bruised ribs, and after putting on a new set of forks, my teammate did an hour - I went out and finished the race.

When you're riding three abreast high up on the banking at Daytona and a multi-car collision occurs and you have tons of flaming metal flying in all directions and you're sliding down an embankment that's several stories high, that little roll-cage, while brilliantly engineered - is pretty ....... minimal; not the kind of thing you just walk away from.

Keshav said:

All due respect; Apples and oranges. No comparison. In the event - everybody feels safe in a car, until they've been in a serious smash-up. Bikes are relatively safe when you give it some thought. In most crashes the rider falls free of the bike and very very rarely gets struck by another bike. I've been down at 130 MPH at Mid-Ohio in an endurance race, walked away with bruised ribs, and after putting on a new set of forks, my teammate did an hour - I went out and finished the race.

When you're riding three abreast high up on the banking at Daytona and a multi-car collision occurs and you have tons of flaming metal flying in all directions and you're sliding down an embankment that's several stories high, that little roll-cage, while brilliantly engineered - is pretty ....... minimal; not the kind of thing you just walk away from.

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I agree it's apples and oranges and not something comparable, but you feel a hell of a lot more exposed on a bike and always will.

Sitting in a purpose built roll cage to protect you compared to protection being down to your clothing...

Reminds me of Mining and risk assessments and all that over the top safety crap i used to have to sell to my maintenance team. The hierarchy of controls PPE is at the bottom of the tree and considered the least effective way of controlling the risk and its kind of all you have on the bike. A roll cage would probably fall into an engineering solution and ranked much higher up the pecking order. Those Nascar smashes are very spectacular but the roll cages do a very good job at protecting them. I'd still hate to be in one though and experience a big smash.

AJV80 said:

Cant say I've been to Daytona, but i have been around Bob Janes Thunderdome at Calder Park in Melbourne, I grew up within about 2 kms to the facility. it is a much smaller oval of 1.1miles but with 24 degree banked corners. Not as severe as Daytona's 31 degree banked corners but sorry to disappoint you it didn't frighten me either driving around it or riding our BMX bikes around it as kids when we would break in like ratbags. You may think the roll cage doesn't do ...., id disagree but either way its a hell of a lot safer than having to just relying on your clothing to protect you.

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I've been aground Calder park in an Auscar too (as a passenger!) and it's definitely sensual overload when you hit the first few corners: didn't know whether to ...., go blind or wind my watch... The g-force is unbelievable to the point where it distorts perception; and the hardest thing about it is keeping your visual focus more than a few meters in front of the car. It's very disorientating, but, it ain't MotoGP and it's a little bit less complicated than f1.


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AJV80 said:

I agree it's apples and oranges and not something comparable, but you feel a hell of a lot more exposed on a bike and always will.

Sitting in a purpose built roll cage to protect you compared to protection being down to your clothing...

Reminds me of Mining and risk assessments and all that over the top safety crap i used to have to sell to my maintenance team. The hierarchy of controls PPE is at the bottom of the tree and considered the least effective way of controlling the risk and its kind of all you have on the bike. A roll cage would probably fall into an engineering solution and ranked much higher up the pecking order. Those Nascar smashes are very spectacular but the roll cages do a very good job at protecting them. I'd still hate to be in one though and experience a big smash.

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What you say about being exposed - no argument there. As Cool mentions, re: the Auscar ride - he makes a good point too; When you're moving at speed in on one of those banked turns it feels like you're going more on animal instinct than intellect. I still remember my first club race at Pocono going flat out on the banking. Being buffeted by the wind and the G-forces crushing my suspension to nothing so you feel every little bump - I felt like I was under water and could only see as if I were looking through a narrow tube. Very disorienting. I've no doubt it feels safer in a car.

Frankly, I feel anyone who disparages NASCAR is not a real racing fan by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, it's not particular glamorous these days, something I attribute to the failure of NASCAR to actually field cars that more closely meet the definition of "stock car" racing as it once did.

But to disparage even the current incarnation is folly. It's incredibly difficult to handle a 3400lb car that will hit speeds in excess of 200MPH at certain restrictor plate tracks like Talladega. I know a few F1 drivers who marvel at NASCAR and the craziness involved to run three wide at 190MPH. Yes, Kyle Busch wouldn't approach Rossi's times on his Yamaha M1 if he rode it. But the thing missed about the Rossi test was that it was done with the Nationwide (now Xfinity series) car (feeder series to the Sprint Cup) and his times were set on a clear track. When you are the only one circling around a place like Charlotte, it's a much different look than when you've got 30-40 cars on track with you giving no quarter.

At the end of the day, the racers usually respect the various series out there no matter how dull they may seem to the fans. The fans are the ones who tend to disparage oval track racing and the like.

JPSLotus said:

Frankly, I feel anyone who disparages NASCAR is not a real racing fan by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, it's not particular glamorous these days, something I attribute to the failure of NASCAR to actually field cars that more closely meet the definition of "stock car" racing as it once did.

But to disparage even the current incarnation is folly. It's incredibly difficult to handle a 3400lb car that will hit speeds in excess of 200MPH at certain restrictor plate tracks like Talladega. I know a few F1 drivers who marvel at NASCAR and the craziness involved to run three wide at 190MPH. Yes, Kyle Busch wouldn't approach Rossi's times on his Yamaha M1 if he rode it. But the thing missed about the Rossi test was that it was done with the Nationwide (now Xfinity series) car (feeder series to the Sprint Cup) and his times were set on a clear track. When you are the only one circling around a place like Charlotte, it's a much different look than when you've got 30-40 cars on track with you giving no quarter.

At the end of the day, the racers usually respect the various series out there no matter how dull they may seem to the fans. The fans are the ones who tend to disparage oval track racing and the like.

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Sorry JPS, I'm a HUGE racing fan who wouldnt even know what a football was and I don't enjoy Nascar. I can fully appreciate its lunacy of sliding a car at at 200mph for countless laps but unfortunately that excitement is something I struggle to feel as a spectator watching them go round and round from an aerial view. I also find the Australian V8 supercar series a tad dull myself after following it closely for more than 20 odd years.

I respect people who enjoy watching them, different strokes for different folks but you can give me a Moto3 race anyday.

AJV80 said:

Sorry JPS, I'm a HUGE racing fan who wouldnt even know what a football was and I don't enjoy Nascar. I can fully appreciate its lunacy of sliding a car at at 200mph for countless laps but unfortunately that excitement is something I struggle to feel as a spectator watching them go round and round from an aerial view. I also find the Australian V8 supercar series a tad dull myself after following it closely for more than 20 odd years.

I respect people who enjoy watching them, different strokes for different folks but you can give me a Moto3 race anyday.

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There's nothing wrong with not liking watching NASCAR and I know it's not for everyone. There was a time when NASCAR was more exciting than it is now. But this has more to do with the constant fiddling with the rules, and the reality that Brian France really has little understanding of what made NASCAR interesting to watch years ago. Granted, Dale Sr. dying didn't much help matters. But back when NASCAR cars were closer to stock cars in appearance, it was far more thrilling to watch. If you ever saw the late Tim Richmond drive, he was as compelling a driver to watch as any across many disciplines of racing.

My opposition is more to the comments about the lack of skill required. I take offense to that as it's a highly prejudiced comment, that has no basis in reality.

JPSLotus said:

There's nothing wrong with not liking watching NASCAR and I know it's not for everyone. There was a time when NASCAR was more exciting than it is now. But this has more to do with the constant fiddling with the rules, and the reality that Brian France really has little understanding of what made NASCAR interesting to watch years ago. Granted, Dale Sr. dying didn't much help matters. But back when NASCAR cars were closer to stock cars in appearance, it was far more thrilling to watch. If you ever saw the late Tim Richmond drive, he was as compelling a driver to watch as any across many disciplines of racing.

My opposition is more to the comments about the lack of skill required. I take offense to that as it's a highly prejudiced comment, that has no basis in reality.

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Its has a fascinating folk law history, with bootlegging that i find quite cool. The cars are IMO the toughest looking and sounding race cars of any series, maybe a very close second to trophy trucks in the Baja. I even tried to make one of my cars sound like a Nascar, and did a pretty good job of it. About 7 police complaints of a black V8 ute doing burnouts that was "abnormally loud" with enormous cam and 3 inch fully opened exhuast system.

In Australia we have the V8 series, which is similar in terms of popularity to the Nascar series in the states. It used to be a a very local series and morphed into Group A racing, then became the Holden VS Ford show. You where born into which brand you supported and there was fierce rivalry and still is. That too is changing now with V8 rules changing and local manufacturers ceasing production of V8 modelled cars. The series now has Volvo, Nissan and Mercedes in it similar to how Toyota joined Nascar. In years to come they will be bringing turbocharged cars back into the series, something Nascar wont have to worry about in the future hopefully.

As a spectator though I enjoy motorcycle racing, the reasons for me is that I ride and love motorcycles and in the racing you can see exactly what the rider is doing and how he is influencing the bike/how the bike influences him. It would be a boring world if everybody liked the same things.

V8 Supercars is ok but I strongly dislike that they changed the entire series to keep Holden and Ford competitive. Holden and Ford for years have been ripping off Australians with overpriced sub standard cars thanks to brand loyalty. I love the shape of some of the old cars (I have an LC torana at home) but even back then they were far behind the 8 ball in standard features and technology. It was a shock to me when I started looking at buying a 73 c10 that they had power steering, a/c, power windows and power brakes.

p4p1 said:

V8 Supercars is ok but I strongly dislike that they changed the entire series to keep Holden and Ford competitive. Holden and Ford for years have been ripping off Australians with overpriced sub standard cars thanks to brand loyalty. I love the shape of some of the old cars (I have an LC torana at home) but even back then they were far behind the 8 ball in standard features and technology. It was a shock to me when I started looking at buying a 73 c10 that they had power steering, a/c, power windows and power brakes.

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The super boring cars are very stale. They haven't changed much in the last 10 years or more other than the new brands joining the series.

I agree with the quality of locally made cars, they are crap. I bought a BMW 335i coupe a few years ago. The features, how it drives and the power ..... all over the locally made cars and i have never looked back.

Its sad to lose our locally made car industry but they have tied their own noose with the lack of quality and new concepts. They churn out the same old tired boring designs year after year.

When you compare what Japan has delivered in the car industry let alone the motorcycle industry in terms of development, price and performance to our locally made cars that still offer bloody pushrod engines, is it any wonder why?