Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Didn't one of the participants die last season?
I'm sure that wasn't cheap.
I'm not really a fan of KTM but trying to shame a company for making changes based upon economic environment is somewhat laughable.
KTM is a large profit-seeking company, what did people expect? It's not a charitable organization and it doesn't acknowledge the age of the participants. These kids have learned a valuable lesson about the nature of profit-seeking companies.
Something the author apparently never learned?
KTM/Red Bull gave American kids a respectable GP feeder class. I hope they come back when they have the money, but I think a return is doubtful if the press, fans, and participants don't stop acting like divas.
I'm sure that wasn't cheap.
I'm not really a fan of KTM but trying to shame a company for making changes based upon economic environment is somewhat laughable.
KTM is a large profit-seeking company, what did people expect? It's not a charitable organization and it doesn't acknowledge the age of the participants. These kids have learned a valuable lesson about the nature of profit-seeking companies.
Something the author apparently never learned?
KTM/Red Bull gave American kids a respectable GP feeder class. I hope they come back when they have the money, but I think a return is doubtful if the press, fans, and participants don't stop acting like divas.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
Agreed Lex.
How many bikes does KTM even sell in the USA anyway. Practically none. Most of them are dirt bikes anyway. How many people are going to see a 125 2 stroke KTM on the track and go out and buy one. I hardly believe that series was helping to sell any streetbikes.
Just more crap from the mouth of Dean Adams
How many bikes does KTM even sell in the USA anyway. Practically none. Most of them are dirt bikes anyway. How many people are going to see a 125 2 stroke KTM on the track and go out and buy one. I hardly believe that series was helping to sell any streetbikes.
Just more crap from the mouth of Dean Adams
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
After i read it,i was sad for the kids, but i kept thinking,what is the difference in what they did to what say.Honda did to Hodgson,or Kawasaki to Hacking.Honda went tire testing at Daytona and then pulled the plug.Kawasaki sent hacking a contract in the mail that he signed and returned and they pulled the plug.Its still up in the air if he will ride anywhere, and if Kawasaki will honor the contract.They are saying it had not been ratified yet.Its a tough lesson for a kid to learn but it will be a lesson in life that it is dog eat dog.
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
It's a bad deal for all involved but it's just another example of Dean Adams attempting to speak down on the industry from his moral high horse. Funny how you never see him pen any pieces slagging the sport when rides fall through for Spaniards or Italians or anyone outside the US, UK and Australia.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jan 24 2009, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>After i read it,i was sad for the kids, but i kept thinking,what is the difference in what they did to what say.Honda did to Hodgson,or Kawasaki to Hacking.Honda went tire testing at Daytona and then pulled the plug.Kawasaki sent hacking a contract in the mail that he signed and returned and they pulled the plug.Its still up in the air if he will ride anywhere, and if Kawasaki will honor the contract.They are saying it had not been ratified yet.Its a tough lesson for a kid to learn but it will be a lesson in life that it is dog eat dog.
The difference is that those guys actually have to pay bills. While it's a dissapointment for the kids it is a devasting financial blow to the riders with no secondary income.
The difference is that those guys actually have to pay bills. While it's a dissapointment for the kids it is a devasting financial blow to the riders with no secondary income.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I agree with the author, I'm still pissed with KTM and their abandonment and white flag mentality of the company with during the KR fiasco. So as far as I'm concerned, .... KTM. (I've said it before, you can look it up).
I’m not really taking the heart strings argument that the kids have been drawn into disappointment, but I’m of the argument that KTM has no backbone, no commitment, they are the French army version of motorcycle companies.
Not to mention they also pulled out of AMA Supermoto, that after bagging two championships.
So yeah, .... KTM!
I’m not really taking the heart strings argument that the kids have been drawn into disappointment, but I’m of the argument that KTM has no backbone, no commitment, they are the French army version of motorcycle companies.
Not to mention they also pulled out of AMA Supermoto, that after bagging two championships.
So yeah, .... KTM!
That article was terrible. I can't think of many companies that would willingly lose money because children are involved, one would hope that these big organizations were led far more objectively than that.
My outlook is that they should have looked at the situation BEFORE they committed to doing it. Once things are set and put in motion, you follow through with your commitments.
Like Jumkie said; "but I’m of the argument that KTM has no backbone, no commitment, they are the French army version of motorcycle companies."
If they looked at it before hand and decided they couldn't financially handle it, then fine. Pull out.
Like Jumkie said; "but I’m of the argument that KTM has no backbone, no commitment, they are the French army version of motorcycle companies."
If they looked at it before hand and decided they couldn't financially handle it, then fine. Pull out.
I think we can be fairly sure that when KTM did commit to the series they were under the impression that it is beneficial to them. Unfortunately things change and hard decisions need to be made. I don't know why people on here spend so much time critisizing the Kawasakis and KTMs of this world who pull out of racing, when there are so many other bike manufacturers out there who don't even consider being part of the sport and nobody critisises them. KTM gave bike racing a hand while it suited them and now it doesn't anymore, and thats fine too.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less about KTM, either. I just think that when you sign a contract, especially when other people (like Red Bull, in this case (as well as these kids)) are counting on you to get the job done, that you should follow through. Everybody has already gotten the ball rolling. People are already making plans and spending money on this.
Kawasaki didn't go about hiring new people and riders. They made the decision to pull out, and still, the FIM is trying to hold them to their contract. Now KTM went along with helping to find new riders, getting everything going, then pulled the rug out from everybody. At least that's how I understand it.
It's an honor thing. KTM looks bad doing this, IMHO. I think they shoudl reimburse Red Bull and everybody else for the the money they have spent ramping this season up.
Kawasaki didn't go about hiring new people and riders. They made the decision to pull out, and still, the FIM is trying to hold them to their contract. Now KTM went along with helping to find new riders, getting everything going, then pulled the rug out from everybody. At least that's how I understand it.
It's an honor thing. KTM looks bad doing this, IMHO. I think they shoudl reimburse Red Bull and everybody else for the the money they have spent ramping this season up.
is it definitely KTM that is the company pulling the plug? if not then is this KTM bashing a little bit premature?
if it is confirmed as the austrians then so be it, business is business and its nothing personal i am sure...
if it is confirmed as the austrians then so be it, business is business and its nothing personal i am sure...
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jan 29 2009, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>is it definitely KTM that is the company pulling the plug? if not then is this KTM bashing a little bit premature?
if it is confirmed as the austrians then so be it, business is business and its nothing personal i am sure...
It wasnt Red Bull,Edmondson said it wasnt him {but he has been known to lie} and KTM hasnt said .....That is why everyone is assuming its KTM.Could be premature,who knows,maybe Edmondson hit them with one of his fee's at the last minute and they said .... off.If it isnt KTM,you would think they would have a press release saying so, instead of being raked over the coals.
if it is confirmed as the austrians then so be it, business is business and its nothing personal i am sure...
It wasnt Red Bull,Edmondson said it wasnt him {but he has been known to lie} and KTM hasnt said .....That is why everyone is assuming its KTM.Could be premature,who knows,maybe Edmondson hit them with one of his fee's at the last minute and they said .... off.If it isnt KTM,you would think they would have a press release saying so, instead of being raked over the coals.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cankles @ Jan 29 2009, 03:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh, don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less about KTM, either. I just think that when you sign a contract, especially when other people (like Red Bull, in this case (as well as these kids)) are counting on you to get the job done, that you should follow through. Everybody has already gotten the ball rolling. People are already making plans and spending money on this.
Kawasaki didn't go about hiring new people and riders. They made the decision to pull out, and still, the FIM is trying to hold them to their contract. Now KTM went along with helping to find new riders, getting everything going, then pulled the rug out from everybody. At least that's how I understand it.
It's an honor thing. KTM looks bad doing this, IMHO. I think they shoudl reimburse Red Bull and everybody else for the the money they have spent ramping this season up.
I think you're right. All of the kids should show up and race for free. All the mechanics should wrench for free. All of the management personnel should manage for free. The venue owners shouldn't charge a dime for the facilities. Merchandisers should give their merchandise away. No one should be allowed to make any money since Red Bull and KTM don't make any money.
An individual should certainly follow through on a commitment he or she makes. KTM/RedBull could easily follow through as long as everyone involved agreed to work/promote/manage for free. It's their fault.
Those greedy profit mongers!!!! The expect to be paid when KTM and Red Bull don't make a dime!!
Dirty capitalist scum!
We've been spoiled by advertising budgets. Advertisers are willing to put their name on anything that draws attention and captures moral imperative or societal coolness. It's a luxury afforded to us by our free market economy. KTM should reimburse any expenses incurred that are directly related to the series, other than that, people should piss off and find something better to do with their time.
Individuals go through these hardships frequently, but keep in mind, no one has ever gotten fired for being a bad worker. People get fired for refusing to work for free. The proletariat is just as much a capitalist as the filthy-profit mongering corporations that refuse to follow through on their contracts.
These kids have not sustained any detriment as a result of KTM pulling out. Pursuing a career as a for-profit motorcycle racer is a huge privilege. Every single one of us who doesn't get to race for a living knows it.
Kawasaki didn't go about hiring new people and riders. They made the decision to pull out, and still, the FIM is trying to hold them to their contract. Now KTM went along with helping to find new riders, getting everything going, then pulled the rug out from everybody. At least that's how I understand it.
It's an honor thing. KTM looks bad doing this, IMHO. I think they shoudl reimburse Red Bull and everybody else for the the money they have spent ramping this season up.
I think you're right. All of the kids should show up and race for free. All the mechanics should wrench for free. All of the management personnel should manage for free. The venue owners shouldn't charge a dime for the facilities. Merchandisers should give their merchandise away. No one should be allowed to make any money since Red Bull and KTM don't make any money.
An individual should certainly follow through on a commitment he or she makes. KTM/RedBull could easily follow through as long as everyone involved agreed to work/promote/manage for free. It's their fault.
Those greedy profit mongers!!!! The expect to be paid when KTM and Red Bull don't make a dime!!
Dirty capitalist scum!
We've been spoiled by advertising budgets. Advertisers are willing to put their name on anything that draws attention and captures moral imperative or societal coolness. It's a luxury afforded to us by our free market economy. KTM should reimburse any expenses incurred that are directly related to the series, other than that, people should piss off and find something better to do with their time.
Individuals go through these hardships frequently, but keep in mind, no one has ever gotten fired for being a bad worker. People get fired for refusing to work for free. The proletariat is just as much a capitalist as the filthy-profit mongering corporations that refuse to follow through on their contracts.
These kids have not sustained any detriment as a result of KTM pulling out. Pursuing a career as a for-profit motorcycle racer is a huge privilege. Every single one of us who doesn't get to race for a living knows it.
A lot of sarcasm, don't you think? LOL!
So we agree that if KTM pulled out like that, then they should reimburse the people the money they shelled out to this point. That's all you really needed to say.
KTM has shown that they are obviously not a well run company with the history they have of pulling out of agreements. You shouldn't commit to something without being sure that you can follow through. I understand that people go through hard times. I am, as well. If somebody tells me that they are going to do something for me, the damn well better follow through. If not, you will have some sort of consequences. This just helps to drive home the fact that people shouldn't do buisiness with them.
So we agree that if KTM pulled out like that, then they should reimburse the people the money they shelled out to this point. That's all you really needed to say.
KTM has shown that they are obviously not a well run company with the history they have of pulling out of agreements. You shouldn't commit to something without being sure that you can follow through. I understand that people go through hard times. I am, as well. If somebody tells me that they are going to do something for me, the damn well better follow through. If not, you will have some sort of consequences. This just helps to drive home the fact that people shouldn't do buisiness with them.
"Individuals go through these hardships frequently, but keep in mind, no one has ever gotten fired for being a bad worker. People get fired for refusing to work for free. "
I don't know where you work, but it must be union. Or was this more of that sarcasm?
I don't know where you work, but it must be union. Or was this more of that sarcasm?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cankles @ Jan 29 2009, 09:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A lot of sarcasm, don't you think? LOL!
So we agree that if KTM pulled out like that, then they should reimburse the people the money they shelled out to this point. That's all you really needed to say.
KTM has shown that they are obviously not a well run company with the history they have of pulling out of agreements. You shouldn't commit to something without being sure that you can follow through. I understand that people go through hard times. I am, as well. If somebody tells me that they are going to do something for me, the damn well better follow through. If not, you will have some sort of consequences. This just helps to drive home the fact that people shouldn't do buisiness with them.
No, people shouldn't accept privileges from KTM. KTM and Red Bull are giving everything and getting nothing in hopes that the racing series will build brand awareness and help sell bikes/drinks. If you promise to make a donation to charity, then you decide the charity isn't a good use of your money and it would be better spent elsewhere, are you an amoral person?
The contract is the only reason KTM/Red Bull should have any consideration for any parties involved in the series.
KTM should reimburse only the direct expenses related to running the series and reimbursement should be in accordance with any contractual obligations. At this point, I doubt there is much to reimburse, and I doubt any of it would be going to the kids or any of the people who wrench for them or manage them.
So we agree that if KTM pulled out like that, then they should reimburse the people the money they shelled out to this point. That's all you really needed to say.
KTM has shown that they are obviously not a well run company with the history they have of pulling out of agreements. You shouldn't commit to something without being sure that you can follow through. I understand that people go through hard times. I am, as well. If somebody tells me that they are going to do something for me, the damn well better follow through. If not, you will have some sort of consequences. This just helps to drive home the fact that people shouldn't do buisiness with them.
No, people shouldn't accept privileges from KTM. KTM and Red Bull are giving everything and getting nothing in hopes that the racing series will build brand awareness and help sell bikes/drinks. If you promise to make a donation to charity, then you decide the charity isn't a good use of your money and it would be better spent elsewhere, are you an amoral person?
The contract is the only reason KTM/Red Bull should have any consideration for any parties involved in the series.
KTM should reimburse only the direct expenses related to running the series and reimbursement should be in accordance with any contractual obligations. At this point, I doubt there is much to reimburse, and I doubt any of it would be going to the kids or any of the people who wrench for them or manage them.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cankles @ Jan 29 2009, 09:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"Individuals go through these hardships frequently, but keep in mind, no one has ever gotten fired for being a bad worker. People get fired for refusing to work for free. "
I don't know where you work, but it must be union. Or was this more of that sarcasm?
Tell your boss you'll work for free, you'll never be fired.
It's not sarcasm. The only reason we get fired is because we expect to be paid. We are as vile as the greedy corporate monsters that fire us.
I don't know where you work, but it must be union. Or was this more of that sarcasm?
Tell your boss you'll work for free, you'll never be fired.
It's not sarcasm. The only reason we get fired is because we expect to be paid. We are as vile as the greedy corporate monsters that fire us.
