Stoner is NOT the new Doohan

You know that Stoner would be nothing without traction control and could never handle the bike Doohan rode. You saw what happened to Stoner in 2006 with a more unpredictable bike. The only bike that Stoner can ever ride good is that 800cc Ducati. I could never see Stoner coping with a 500.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noodlerizer @ Mar 12 2008, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You know that Stoner would be nothing without traction control and could never handle the bike Doohan rode. You saw what happened to Stoner in 2006 with a more unpredictable bike. The only bike that Stoner can ever ride good is that 800cc Ducati. I could never see Stoner coping with a 500.

2 years down the line I should think Casey is a little better by now

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noodlerizer @ Mar 12 2008, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You know that Stoner would be nothing without traction control and could never handle the bike Doohan rode. You saw what happened to Stoner in 2006 with a more unpredictable bike. The only bike that Stoner can ever ride good is that 800cc Ducati. I could never see Stoner coping with a 500.
it will never happen but i would pay money to see a race with no tc ect, all down to the rider. you never know casey may do well i know who i would bet on tho

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 12 2008, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>it will never happen but i would pay money to see a race with no tc ect, all down to the rider. you never know casey may do well i know who i would bet on tho
Yeah, at least we agree on this one, Hayden, of course.

Let's just hope that after Stoner retires he does not change into an angry drunk who gets kicked out of clubs

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 12 2008, 09:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, at least we agree on this one, Hayden, of course.
haystack in the top 5 for sure on a bike without the electronic aids.
gravel pit on a 500 tho.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noodlerizer @ Mar 12 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You know that Stoner would be nothing without traction control and could never handle the bike Doohan rode. You saw what happened to Stoner in 2006 with a more unpredictable bike. The only bike that Stoner can ever ride good is that 800cc Ducati. I could never see Stoner coping with a 500.

Funny that you have Stoner as a favourite rider in your profile - maybe you should update it?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Mar 12 2008, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Funny that you have Stoner as a favourite rider in your profile - maybe you should update it?
Updated yesterday! Just because I do not think he can perform well on a 500 does not mean he is not one of my favorite riders.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noodlerizer @ Mar 12 2008, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Updated yesterday! Just because I do not think he can perform well on a 500 does not mean he is not one of my favorite riders.

Well, you said that he "would be nothing without traction control", which is more than saying he couldn't ride Doohan's bike. Anyway... If you speak like that of your favourite rider, what of one you dislike...
Never mind, I'm just trying to kill time waiting for the next race

Well they way he wins sure does remind me Doohan. No toying around, just go as quick as you can all the time. No cunning strategies, no tricks. Mick seemed to be more ruthless to me, but maybe that comes with age and injuries.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Mar 13 2008, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well they way he wins sure does remind me Doohan. No toying around, just go as quick as you can all the time. No cunning strategies, no tricks. Mick seemed to be more ruthless to me, but maybe that comes with age and injuries.
+1

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noodlerizer @ Mar 13 2008, 07:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You know that Stoner would be nothing without traction control and could never handle the bike Doohan rode. You saw what happened to Stoner in 2006 with a more unpredictable bike. The only bike that Stoner can ever ride good is that 800cc Ducati. I could never see Stoner coping with a 500.

Stoner's crashes in 2006 were due to losing the front end. He wasn't comfortable with the front tyre/suspension/chassis combination of his 2006 Honda.

Most of his childhood riding was racing dirt track, often 5 times a day, on 5 different bikes and often winning those races. So he basically grew up learning to rear wheel steer and would appear to be pretty happy doing so. Similar to the background of guys like Nicky Hayden, Garry McCoy.

Given this, I don't see your logic when you say he'd be nothing without traction control. All these guys have good throttle control. The issue with traction control is it contains rear spin and if anything, I'd think Stoner'd be pretty comfortable lighting up the rear of a 500cc two stroke. Similarly i think Hayden/Toseland/Hopkins etc... wouldn't have too much trouble riding a 500, but perhaps many of the Euro 125/250cc brigade might have more difficulty as they have to learn to rear steer.

The issue is that with traction control, you can ride the big bikes more like a 125/250cc, which favours the guys who grew up racing GP stuff from Europe. Take traction control away I think you'd see the guys with dirt track backgrounds come to the fore again.

As to Vale, he didn't have a dirt background, he had to learn to rear steer and was able to do so comfortably. But then again, that's simply because he's got massive, massive talent.

I don't think many of the up and coming 125/250cc guys could make the jump and be as dominant. Maybe one or two, but that's it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noodlerizer @ Mar 12 2008, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Let's just hope that after Stoner retires he does not change into an angry drunk who gets kicked out of clubs
You obviously have not visited any of his "clubs." If you had, you'd know they are a complete blast! Where do you live? Mick is building one as we speak in Los Vegas. Look it up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Mar 13 2008, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Never mind, I'm just trying to kill time waiting for the next race

Its a bit like that isn't it ....

I wonder if that was one of the original reasons I posted that Stoner is the new Doohan?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cangaceiro @ Mar 12 2008, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner's crashes in 2006 were due to losing the front end. He wasn't comfortable with the front tyre/suspension/chassis combination of his 2006 Honda.

Most of his childhood riding was racing dirt track, often 5 times a day, on 5 different bikes and often winning those races. So he basically grew up learning to rear wheel steer and would appear to be pretty happy doing so. Similar to the background of guys like Nicky Hayden, Garry McCoy.

Given this, I don't see your logic when you say he'd be nothing without traction control. All these guys have good throttle control. The issue with traction control is it contains rear spin and if anything, I'd think Stoner'd be pretty comfortable lighting up the rear of a 500cc two stroke. Similarly i think Hayden/Toseland/Hopkins etc... wouldn't have too much trouble riding a 500, but perhaps many of the Euro 125/250cc brigade might have more difficulty as they have to learn to rear steer.

The issue is that with traction control, you can ride the big bikes more like a 125/250cc, which favours the guys who grew up racing GP stuff from Europe. Take traction control away I think you'd see the guys with dirt track backgrounds come to the fore again.

As to Vale, he didn't have a dirt background, he had to learn to rear steer and was able to do so comfortably. But then again, that's simply because he's got massive, massive talent.

I don't think many of the up and coming 125/250cc guys could make the jump and be as dominant. Maybe one or two, but that's it.
Worth quoting your entire post here.

Dude, welcome to the forum. We need more knowledgeable, fair, and balanced Rossi guys around. So far we have a drunk guy, a pervert, an old lady, a few tire-superheroes, a hottie, and bunch of teenagers, and few level headed Hayden fans like me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cangaceiro @ Mar 13 2008, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So he basically grew up learning to rear wheel steer and would appear to be pretty happy doing so. Similar to the background of guys like Nicky Hayden, Garry McCoy.


And Doohan!! ..... and in fact very likely on the same tracks as Doohan

Yes I suppose you are dead right Noodle .... even though he's like the new "mini-me" of Doohan, in most respects, there are some aspects in which they do differ.

I can't see Stoner as the "clubby" type.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 13 2008, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Worth quoting your entire post here.

Dude, welcome to the forum. We need more knowledgeable, fair, and balanced Rossi guys around. So far we have a drunk guy, a pervert, an old lady, a few tire-superheroes, a hottie, and bunch of teenagers, and few level headed Hayden fans like me.

Thanks for the welcome Jumkie. I've been reading this forum for a while and it finally dawned on me to contribute.

Noodlerizer does bring up an interesting philosophical point, if we remove traction control (T/C), we would see a different crop of guys at the front in total. Some of the same guys (Rossi/Stoner) would still be there, but the mix of also rans would be quite different i think. I mean Rossi struggled in his first year on a 500cc. Yes he came out and won the next year, but it took him time to learn to ride the 500. The latest crop of 250cc guys can do it easier on the 800cc bikes because the transition of riding style required from 250cc to the big bikes has been reduced significantly.

I mean you can get on the bike, try and ring it's neck and it's not going to kill you like a 500cc. Makes it a bit easier to get up to speed, no?

If they got rid of T/C, then you could philosophically speaking say, why not impose other limits on the evolution of GP racing. Then you wouldn't have a prototype based series at all, you'd be closer to the philosophy of WSBK (make changes to keep things a competitive spectacle). Makes it good to watch but you'd lose some of the pureness of GP racing and that would make it less interesting from a technical standpoint and perhaps overall.

Personally I'd be happy if they were still running 500cc two strokes! I miss those times...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cangaceiro @ Mar 13 2008, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Personally I'd be happy if they were still running 500cc two strokes! I miss those times...

Meh I think the 4 strokes surpassed the two strokes in power, torque, speed, handling etc. etc. etc. some time ago .... even 800's .... why go back to a slower formula?

The latter years of two strokes all had TC .... so really there isn't a rider out there, Except maybe Capi?, who has raced on a non TC bike in MGP.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 13 2008, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Meh I think the 4 strokes surpassed the two strokes in power, torque, speed, handling etc. etc. etc. some time ago .... even 800's .... why go back to a slower formula?

I'm not suggesting that they do mate. I wouldn't be "unhappy" if 500cc two strokes were still on the grid because the style of riding while racing was quite entertaining, but I'm not against evolution and change in GP racing.