So robots can gain Consciousness.

Didn't Suzuki test well in the offseason with an 800cc motor installed in the 990 chassis? If so, would it be at all possible to dust off some 211V chassis and run them at 800cc? I guess weight would be a problem.

This is why I don't turn wrenches anywhere.

Thank you for info roger and israeli.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jun 25 2007, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is the theory that in motorcycle racing the bike is 20% and the rider is 80% of the equation dead?

I've been revised this theory.

Pedrosa IMO is so good as Stoner, but, isn't the bike only 20%? Then, why Pedrosa is struggling? Same for Rossi. If bike was only 20%, Rossi would be able to do better race by race, although all his problems with the bike.

So, how much the bike ponder in a race?

Well, i think the following:

Pedrosa without a bike that ANSWER to his tune-up skills, is just a good pilot without where apply his talent. Just like Stoner, Rossi, and all out there.

The man need know to setup his machine, but is this machine accepting his style or adjusts?

This is the fact where i can find a 50/50 ponderating.

A bike without a pilot is just a bike without a pilot. A pilot without a tool to do your job, is just a pilot looking at stars at the sky.

That tools isn't only some any bike, need to be a bike that satisfy the rider. To satisfy a rider, manufacturer need to make the best possible, in ANY circustance, only to grow up the POSSIBILITIES to satisfy such rider, once we lack any assurance in race world.

A bike is the rider armor. Is this armor suiting him well enough? If not, so, a dagger could hit his navel.

Interesting point about Honda putting all their eggs in one basket. I think that's really what has happened. They are betting all their chips on Dani being a great development/setup rider. Maybe he's not! Also, things that work for a horse jockey-sized rider may not work well for the rest of the regular sized Honda riders. Melandri himself said this weekend that Honda is working ONLY with Dani and that the rest of them are languishing.

I agree that they should split up the duties a bit more in order to end up with a bike that is workable for everyone, like the 211V.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jun 26 2007, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have been saying for awhile that Honda will struggle to get good riders next year because they put all their eggs in one basket. If they were supporting all their riders equally then they would have 7x the development feedback and would surely not be facing these problems.

I believe the problem is the mass centralisation theory which appears to be not the best way to build a bike.

I laugh when these stars who have a dream run throughout their careers with the best bikes in each class, whinge and ..... and moan when they no longer have the best bike. Casey has never had the best bike on the grid in any class he has raced but has still produced results enough to get himself in to a factory team where he can use HIS SKILL to give feedback to the team to help them develop HIS bike to be the best on the grid (I am sure Loris doesn't think his Duke is the best bike on the grid)

Is the theory that in motorcycle racing the bike is 20% and the rider is 80% of the equation dead? Is it like F1 where the machine is 90% and the rider/driver is only 10%?

I agree. Casey won 5 races in 05, 10 podiums, doesn't sound like Dani beat him at every race to me. He has finally got a shot with a full factory effort and figured the thing out, unlike Capirossi.

I hope Pedrosa leaves, he won't, but it'd be great to see him on the Kawasaki, Honda would be the only team without a top rider
Honda must be shitting themselves, especially if Repsol decided to leave with him.

Kawasaki should throw everything they have at securing Dani, offer him the best oil lubrication for his joints and the latest ECU for his head

It's interesting that the only rider not digging at Honda in public is Hayden. Everyone knows of his problems, but he hasn't come out and said .... like this.

Honda simply have too many machines to fix. I reckon Nakano and Checa will have pretty much the same bikes at Valencia that they had in Qatar. Throw out the Honda for Checa and Nakano, push Kawasaki and Suzuki to replace those 2 bikes. Could it happen in 09? Hope so because Montiron and Chechinello aren't going to hang around to race for 12th to 15th.

I agree with you about Hayden. Americans should be proud of their man. He is a credit to himself and his people. Under difficult circumstances he conducts himself with utmost respect for his team and his fellow riders giving props to those who deserve it and never biting the hand that feeds him.

He reminds me of a person who has earned his place and never wants to devalue the environment that he has fought hard to be a part of.

I think it was Dorna who pushed for the 800cc bikes. none of the manufacturers wanted it due to the additional development costs they will have to incur. The RCV211v was superior to Rossi's Yamaha. Rossi was their problem, not the bike. People speculated that Honda was best suited for the 800cc change as their bikes were 5 cylinders. All they had to do was chop off one cylinder and they would have a 800cc engine. It is not that simple.

Honda strategy has always been to keep some power in reserve when they release a new engine. As the competition caught up, they would "open her up". I remember Burgess saying, after Yamaha won with Rossi for the first time, that he was interested in seeing how much faster honda would make the RCV go, and they did.

Unfortunately, honda's startegy with the 800cc backfired becuase Ducati chose an "unconventional" approach -- the screamer firing order. (Honda's and Yamaha use the big bang) Stoner is making it work for him, the other riders seem to be having trouble with the aggressive power of Ducati's screamer, and to Stoner good luck the Bridgestones are able to handle the power. Add to that Stoner's ability to push to the limit without crashing, and that is a lethal combo.

One reason for honda's misstep with the 800cc was that they were focusing too hard last year to make changes to the 211 that would allow Hayden to win the championsip. (So, Hayden should be the last to complain about the 800cc). As a consequence, they were one of the last companies to release the 800cc. Ducati gave up on their 990cc half way through the season and focussed on the 800cc instead.

Now why the heck the michelins cannot keep up with the Bridgestones boggles my mind. Especially since their tires worked well last year on bikes with more power and weight.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Jun 26 2007, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Unfortunately, honda's startegy with the 800cc backfired becuase Ducati chose an "unconventional" approach -- the screamer firing order. (Honda's and Yamaha use the big bang)

I don't think you are correct with this comment. As far as I know they are all using the screamer format and have done from the beginning of 800cc because the power of the 800cc was never going to be unrideable like the screamer 990's. Maybe those that have heard them live will be able to shed some light as the sound is distinctly different.

HA HA Honda are having the same problem this year as Yamaha last year! This year they have had 3 engine failures.. that is more than they have had in the past 3 years. I feel sorry for KR last year excellent bike this year all gone wrong.

Last year honda made an effort to give everyone equal machines this year they have concentrated on Repsol, I think they should go back to last year way of thinking. I Don't blame Dani for being pssed off.

Honda has never given equal machinery, HRC always gets something extra, maybe at the beggining of the year they are equal, HRC get updates much more quickly than the rest.

This year, Nicky, Dani and Marco have a higher revving engine than the rest. Marco complains because he thought he would get full HRC support but upgrades don't get to him as fast as they do to HRC riders. But as long as he can't beat his teammate on the standard bike he really doesn't deserve it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I don't think you are correct with this comment. As far as I know they are all using the screamer format and have done from the beginning of 800cc because the power of the 800cc was never going to be unrideable like the screamer 990's. Maybe those that have heard them live will be able to shed some light as the sound is distinctly different.

Yup it's correct all manufacturers use Big-bang except Ducati. Capirossi got a big bang engine for the Montmeló race, but was dumped cause it didn't give him any advantage and was 10km/h down on the straight with respect to Casey.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 26 2007, 02:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>sound like theres a mutiny brewing at honda. sounds like all there riders are ready to jump ship.

Mr HONDA is turning in his grave...if he wasn’t after the Pedrosa & Hayden incident last year...Well he is now!!! Good as the boys at

There are two sins in racing and the HIND..A boys have managed to do both in two years...1. Stuff it up on the management side OR 2. Stuff it up on the engineering side; well they did a great job of #1 last year...Now it’s time for #2...lol...but this year it’s going to cost them big time like it should have cost them last year!!!

You may be right. I am not 100% sure of Honda's firing order. But, so much fan fare has been made of Ducati's swiutch back to screamer and nothing from the Honda/Yamaha camps.

Also, this Pedrosa's bike on this clip sounds like a twin (big bang)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X6Xa-MKt2s...related&search=

Compare to Stoner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C58rIv9YrI


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jun 25 2007, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think you are correct with this comment. As far as I know they are all using the screamer format and have done from the beginning of 800cc because the power of the 800cc was never going to be unrideable like the screamer 990's. Maybe those that have heard them live will be able to shed some light as the sound is distinctly different.

Honda were the first to push for the 800cc limit. Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki all eventually followed suit. When the change was made, Ducati was the only manufacturer still opposed to it because of the massive costs to be incurred.

Honda will get it sorted sooner or later, they are Honda after all. I don't think Pedrosa is going anywhere, just putting the fear of God into HRC. Surely they must be pissing themselves thinking the man they designed their entire future around is possibly leaving. But where would he go? The rumors sound as if Lorenzo is slotted in at Yamaha and Melandri at Ducati. Does Dani really want to risk leaving the biggest factory in motorcycle racing to join Kawasaki or Suzuki? Doubtful.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jun 25 2007, 10:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with you about Hayden. Americans should be proud of their man. He is a credit to himself and his people. Under difficult circumstances he conducts himself with utmost respect for his team and his fellow riders giving props to those who deserve it and never biting the hand that feeds him.

He reminds me of a person who has earned his place and never wants to devalue the environment that he has fought hard to be a part of.
Absolutely, what a great thing to say.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jun 26 2007, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Honda will get it sorted sooner or later, they are Honda after all. I don't think Pedrosa is going anywhere, just putting the fear of God into HRC. Surely they must be pissing themselves thinking the man they designed their entire future around is possibly leaving. But where would he go? ... Does Dani really want to risk leaving the biggest factory in motorcycle racing to join Kawasaki or Suzuki? Doubtful.
I wonder how much of this was Pedrosa and how much of this was A. Puig?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vale4607 @ Jun 25 2007, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's interesting that the only rider not digging at Honda in public is Hayden. Everyone knows of his problems, but he hasn't come out and said .... like this.
I'm a fan so most may read this and think it just bias, but the man is humble. His whole family is like this, and if you've ever had the pleasure of speaking to his parents, you will get an idea where this comes from.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jun 27 2007, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm a fan so most may read this and think it just bias, but the man is humble. His whole family is like this, and if you've ever had the pleasure of speaking to his parents, you will get an idea where this comes from.

I think this is why I enjoy Hayden's personality. He's ego doesn't seem to consume him. It's nice to see someone with that sort of respect for the manufacturer that gave him his shot.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>QUOTE(TP70 @ Jun 25 2007, 10:36 PM)

I agree with you about Hayden. Americans should be proud of their man. He is a credit to himself and his people. Under difficult circumstances he conducts himself with utmost respect for his team and his fellow riders giving props to those who deserve it and never biting the hand that feeds him.

He reminds me of a person who has earned his place and never wants to devalue the environment that he has fought hard to be a part of.

did you not watch motogp last year ? hrc are working flat out to make new parts and all nicky did was whine about them ( chassis, clutch ect ) then winge that he is only hondas #2 rider and evey thing was for dani. if that is not biting the hand that feeding you then i dont now what is,after all hrc did take him to his first world championship so the parts must have been ok. personaly i dont find the man that humble at all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jun 27 2007, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Absolutely, what a great thing to say.

I wonder how much of this was Pedrosa and how much of this was A. Puig?

I'm a fan so most may read this and think it just bias, but the man is humble. His whole family is like this, and if you've ever had the pleasure of speaking to his parents, you will get an idea where this comes from.
1. you would say that, take off the nicky coloured glasses mate.

2. just what i was thinking, good point.

3.humble....my arse, humble people dont winge about there team to the media, humble people dont do loads of stupid tv stuff like the mtv show, the dateing show ect just to inflate his ego.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jun 26 2007, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Honda will get it sorted sooner or later, they are Honda after all.I wonder how long it will take. I'd say if they still had Rossi/Burgess then they'd be doing a damn sight better than they are now. Who's the only guy doing anything in terms of getting the 800 set-up in a way that makes it anywhere near competitive? Pedrosa, and he ain't happy. I think there is a very distinct possibility that Dani may leave Repsol/HRC if the Honda/Michelin combo is still underperforming at the end of the year. Screw Honda anyway, they believe the rider has nothing to do with it, that it's all to do with engineering and the bike, that the rider is expendable, well they got that one wrong didn't they? That's part of the reason they lost Rossi, who'd have thought that could happen 4 or 5 years ago? Why should it be so unlikely that they will loose Pedrosa? Melandri is already going to leave so who does that leave them with to develop a bike?



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jun 27 2007, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm a fan so most may read this and think it just bias, but the man is humble. His whole family is like this, and if you've ever had the pleasure of speaking to his parents, you will get an idea where this comes from.That's why Honda have tramped all over him. You know the history Jumkie. I have a huge respect for Nicky, he's a genuine guy, that's obvious. But when the bike is obviously not working, when all the other Honda riders are publicly slating the RCV about how crap it is, it does get nauseating hearing Nicky being such a nice guy about it. .... me, he's the world champion. He doesn't seem to be pushing HRC, more like he just rides whatever they give him and is grateful for it. Very noble indeed but he needs to light a fire under HRC's ....



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 27 2007, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>did you not watch motogp last year ? hrc are working flat out to make new parts and all nicky did was whine about them ( chassis, clutch ect ) then winge that he is only hondas #2 rider and evey thing was for dani. if that is not biting the hand that feeding you then i dont now what is,after all hrc did take him to his first world championship so the parts must have been ok. personaly i dont find the man that humble at all. Roger, I know how you feel about NH but I can't agree. ( still laughing ) I don't think Nicky whinned once last year except for THAT crash, which given the circumstances, was understandable. He did what he's always done, dug in deep and got on with it, which is why he won the title. If you want a lesson in whinning, check out Rossi in MCN today, he's having a good old whinge about tyres.
( sorry couldn't resist )

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jun 27 2007, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Roger, I know how you feel about NH but I can't agree. ( still laughing ) I don't think Nicky whinned once last year except for THAT crash, which given the circumstances, was understandable. He did what he's always done, dug in deep and got on with it, which is why he won the title. If you want a lesson in whinning, check out Rossi in MCN today, he's having a good old whinge about tyres.
( sorry couldn't resist )
1, just trying to wake up some haystack fans ,there better entertainment than these new stoner fans,

2. ive read the mcn article,and i dont see he is "whinning" at all. all he is saying is what we already no,they have tyre problem, he also says he is partly to blame for a poor performance and could have done more,to be honest i cant see how he could of on such a shot tyre. he also gives props to stones.

very funny skid,guess your upto the same tricks as me

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 27 2007, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>very funny skid,guess your upto the same tricks as me .... Rog, you're on to me