I understand that Rossi is one of those riders that divide fans, you seem to either love him or hate him. I can't say a lot about him since I've not even been watching a full season of motogp yet, but it's been 10 months, you can't believe you've had to put up with me that long can you?
Anyway, back to my point. I don't really have an opinion either way of him as a man. His riding in the few races I saw last year and so far this year don't show him as being anything special to me, though I am fully aware you can't win as many championships as he has and not be a good rider. If he was still as good as he is supposed to have been then he wouldn't be so far behind Lorenzo pretty much every race. So my conclusion is, probably was really good (not qualified to say as I never saw him at his peak) but fading some now.
Anyway, back to my point. I don't really have an opinion either way of him as a man. His riding in the few races I saw last year and so far this year don't show him as being anything special to me, though I am fully aware you can't win as many championships as he has and not be a good rider. If he was still as good as he is supposed to have been then he wouldn't be so far behind Lorenzo pretty much every race. So my conclusion is, probably was really good (not qualified to say as I never saw him at his peak) but fading some now.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote1372175052
Its really not the man himself that divides people, its his fans and Dorna. For some, they are very leery of another human who pours that much adoration on another human being. Its a sign of a weak mind that is easily manipulated. Dorna saw it and manipulated the weak minds to the extent of sacrificing the legitimacy of the sport. I guess you could partially blame Rossi for going along with the manipulation of the sport he supposedly loves, but 100's of millions of dollars were at stake, and that tends to sully even the most pure.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
Lyria
It's a shame you never saw him in his glory days. Just watching him ride around the track you could easily realize what made him so much better than all the others.
See if you can get a tape of some of his old races. Pay close attention when he's rounding the corner. Focus on the two black things that are attached to his rims. There you will see something special indeed that nobody else had
It's a shame you never saw him in his glory days. Just watching him ride around the track you could easily realize what made him so much better than all the others.
See if you can get a tape of some of his old races. Pay close attention when he's rounding the corner. Focus on the two black things that are attached to his rims. There you will see something special indeed that nobody else had
Joined Sep 2007
2K Posts | 60+
here
Mental Anarchist
Not a mindless fanboi, but feel the need to take issue with the bolded section. It can be argued that the championships he won up to 2005 were always on superior machinery with SNSs against relatively lacklustre opposition. I personally think that if you argue this way then the majority of WCs have asterisks after them, but meh.
However, 2008 and 2009 had none of those characteristics - care to explain them if he should have been "rightfully only 4th or 5th" throughout his whole career? Or is it just that 34 playing 20-something is hard to do.
Not a mindless fanboi, but feel the need to take issue with the bolded section. It can be argued that the championships he won up to 2005 were always on superior machinery with SNSs against relatively lacklustre opposition. I personally think that if you argue this way then the majority of WCs have asterisks after them, but meh.
However, 2008 and 2009 had none of those characteristics - care to explain them if he should have been "rightfully only 4th or 5th" throughout his whole career? Or is it just that 34 playing 20-something is hard to do.
I have been watching Motogp for a very long time and I know everyone has an opinion and I think that's great. But we have to give credit to what Rossi has done in his career and for the sport. I was watching some old videos on Motogp and the show he would put on dog fighting with other great riders like Biaggi, Gibernau, Lorenzo, and of course Stoner. I thought those rivals brought out the very best in Rossi. It's to bad Stoner retired so soon I would have liked to have seen them battle this year.
I know Rossi is getting older now but I think he is still getting familier with the Yamaha again. I thought after Qatar he would have been on top again. Qatar is a perfect example of what Rossi can do. Everybody was amazed by his skill at that race. He's a great overtaker and in the rain he is incredible. I was hoping Rossi would pass the torch to Marco but we are never going to see that happen unfortunatly but that's a whole other topic.
I know Rossi is getting older now but I think he is still getting familier with the Yamaha again. I thought after Qatar he would have been on top again. Qatar is a perfect example of what Rossi can do. Everybody was amazed by his skill at that race. He's a great overtaker and in the rain he is incredible. I was hoping Rossi would pass the torch to Marco but we are never going to see that happen unfortunatly but that's a whole other topic.
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
povol
You "guess?" Sorry, but I see a darker version of events.
The dude is ENTIRELY in on the scam. Everything 'Vale' does is calculated to manipulate his adoring fans. The winks and waves and not-so-causal press conference statements; he's no different than a baby-kissing politician, pretending to mix with the unwashed masses, all the while smiling to himself about how easily they are duped. IMO, he's smart enough to be fully conscious of his acts, and is fully capable of playing a role to achieve a desired effect.
You "guess?" Sorry, but I see a darker version of events.
The dude is ENTIRELY in on the scam. Everything 'Vale' does is calculated to manipulate his adoring fans. The winks and waves and not-so-causal press conference statements; he's no different than a baby-kissing politician, pretending to mix with the unwashed masses, all the while smiling to himself about how easily they are duped. IMO, he's smart enough to be fully conscious of his acts, and is fully capable of playing a role to achieve a desired effect.
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
VROSSI46
Now I KNOW you're a shill. No true Rossi fan would refer to Gibbers, Biaggi, or Stoner as 'great.' The accepted groupthink mythology holds that they were brittle, Mentally Weak ....... that Rossi shattered into a thousand pieces. Only Lorenzo escaped this fate, although there were great efforts to label him in a similar light when he first arrived.
Now I KNOW you're a shill. No true Rossi fan would refer to Gibbers, Biaggi, or Stoner as 'great.' The accepted groupthink mythology holds that they were brittle, Mentally Weak ....... that Rossi shattered into a thousand pieces. Only Lorenzo escaped this fate, although there were great efforts to label him in a similar light when he first arrived.
yamaka46
2008 & 2009 saw the advantage taken from his rivals and given back to him, again. He definitely had to step up his game and I agree that these were his hardest fought championships. But would he have won them if Bridgestone weren't forced to provide him with tyres?
2008 & 2009 saw the advantage taken from his rivals and given back to him, again. He definitely had to step up his game and I agree that these were his hardest fought championships. But would he have won them if Bridgestone weren't forced to provide him with tyres?
Mental Anarchist
If Rossi's results were all contrived then basically there has never been a worthy GP champion, the whole thing is a sham, and we should all stop bothering to post about it.
The problem for me was that element among Rossi fans (which certainly didn't include yamaka for one) who were wont to attempt to tear down all other riders, and particularly to claim that other riders only won because of bike advantages. I think it is possible for those people be wrong, annoying and totally devoid of any notion of the concept of irony simultaneously with Rossi being a great rider.
If Rossi's results were all contrived then basically there has never been a worthy GP champion, the whole thing is a sham, and we should all stop bothering to post about it.
The problem for me was that element among Rossi fans (which certainly didn't include yamaka for one) who were wont to attempt to tear down all other riders, and particularly to claim that other riders only won because of bike advantages. I think it is possible for those people be wrong, annoying and totally devoid of any notion of the concept of irony simultaneously with Rossi being a great rider.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Distinctions. Im not sure u are making them. If one person is falsely convicted and sent to jail, that doesnt mean his cellmates are innocent. U sir have made it ur mission to argue Stoner's WC was legit in the face of all manner of rationalizations to disparage it. So it seems my friend, because u dont want ur self to appear as if its a double standard, ur locked into the position that no WCs were ever facilitated by inauthentic means.
povol
Ta for explaining that, I didn't know that was how it worked.
JohnnyKnockdown
Hey even before I ever knew what motogp really was I knew the name Valentino Rossi, maybe I should try and see some of his oold stuff to understand the adoration of the man.
Ta for explaining that, I didn't know that was how it worked.
JohnnyKnockdown
Hey even before I ever knew what motogp really was I knew the name Valentino Rossi, maybe I should try and see some of his oold stuff to understand the adoration of the man.
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
Why should anyone show him respect if they don't want to? This is a motorbike racing forum, not a Valentino fan site. There are millions who jerk off over this clown world-wide, so a few peeps on a racing forum not liking the guy aint gonna hurt him too much.
I don't like the guy because:
Throughout his career, he has shown little respect to other riders
He has received advantages to gain his titles
His followers see him as a God, rather than a human
He has contributed enormously to marketing the sport into mediocrity and entertainment, rather than pure racing
Plus, he comes across as a shifty slim-ball that's always hiding something behind that ........ grin.
But that's just my opinion. Put me up against the effing wall and shoot me if ya don't like it!
I don't like the guy because:
Throughout his career, he has shown little respect to other riders
He has received advantages to gain his titles
His followers see him as a God, rather than a human
He has contributed enormously to marketing the sport into mediocrity and entertainment, rather than pure racing
Plus, he comes across as a shifty slim-ball that's always hiding something behind that ........ grin.
But that's just my opinion. Put me up against the effing wall and shoot me if ya don't like it!
Jumkie
You know what my position on the Ducati is, I don't believe even the 2007 Ducati was as good let alone better than the Yamahas and Hondas, in anyone's hands except Stoner's, and think it required a riding method non-sustainable for him in the long term both because of the stress on him and likelihood of injury, and that it became less competitive with the years.
I agree with Arrabbiata that Rossi had a marked bike advantage in 2002 and 2003. He did pretty well in many other years though, including in the 125s and 250s, in his first year on a 500, and in 2004 when I believe his Honda competitors were fairly adequately equipped. He may not be quite the legendary superhero , the boots of whom the likes of Stoner and Hayden are unworthy to polish, that some of his fans contend, but he is or was pretty handy, particularly at setting up and executing passing manouevres.
I started as a Gardner fan and became a Doohan fan, but was obviously a fan of all the "Golden Era" 500 riders. As a Doohan fan I do appreciate though that it has always been part of the nature of things for the best riders to unite with the best bikes, and possibly make those bikes better than they were, and as someone who enjoyed Doohan's titles as well as Stoner's you are corrrect in surmising I would consider it hypocritical to attribute Rossi's titles to bike advantage.
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with the later post by Mad Mick that he showed scant respect for quite a few of his competitors and collaborated to an extent in the character assassination of some of them.
You know what my position on the Ducati is, I don't believe even the 2007 Ducati was as good let alone better than the Yamahas and Hondas, in anyone's hands except Stoner's, and think it required a riding method non-sustainable for him in the long term both because of the stress on him and likelihood of injury, and that it became less competitive with the years.
I agree with Arrabbiata that Rossi had a marked bike advantage in 2002 and 2003. He did pretty well in many other years though, including in the 125s and 250s, in his first year on a 500, and in 2004 when I believe his Honda competitors were fairly adequately equipped. He may not be quite the legendary superhero , the boots of whom the likes of Stoner and Hayden are unworthy to polish, that some of his fans contend, but he is or was pretty handy, particularly at setting up and executing passing manouevres.
I started as a Gardner fan and became a Doohan fan, but was obviously a fan of all the "Golden Era" 500 riders. As a Doohan fan I do appreciate though that it has always been part of the nature of things for the best riders to unite with the best bikes, and possibly make those bikes better than they were, and as someone who enjoyed Doohan's titles as well as Stoner's you are corrrect in surmising I would consider it hypocritical to attribute Rossi's titles to bike advantage.
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with the later post by Mad Mick that he showed scant respect for quite a few of his competitors and collaborated to an extent in the character assassination of some of them.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
mad mick
Dont forget , he was the puppet master of the mindless hord that went after anyone who dared beat him. He could whip those mutants into a fury that sent cold chills { dollar signs ] down Uncle Carmelo's spine. Whatever the hord wanted, just to keep them glued to the tube.
Dont forget , he was the puppet master of the mindless hord that went after anyone who dared beat him. He could whip those mutants into a fury that sent cold chills { dollar signs ] down Uncle Carmelo's spine. Whatever the hord wanted, just to keep them glued to the tube.
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