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Should DORNA implement a secret plan?

Joined Mar 2007
8K Posts | 2K+
Texas
Since Dorna cannot control the machines or how closely they race, should DORNA implement a secret plan designed to pay the riders for keeping it close until the end?

For instance, DORNA could enact a plan that pays the top 5 positions for circulating within 1 second of the leader (at the line) on each lap. The payment would vary based upon the number of people within 1 second and the position of each rider (to encourage overtaking).

If the top 5 riders all crossed the line with 1 second of each other, the payout for the lap would be:

1. $2500
2. $2000
3. $1500
4. $1000
5. $500

If only 3 positions crossed the line within 1 second, the payout for the lap would be:

1. $1500
2. $1000
3. $500

If no one is within 1 second of the leader, no one gets paid.

At Catalunya, the max payout for such a program could have been: $187,500
At Catalunya, the max individual payout for the program could have been: $62,500

If such a plan were in place at Catalunya the individual payouts would have been:

Lorenzo: $24,000
Rossi: $23,500
Stoner: $5000
DePuniet:$1000
Pedrosa: $500

Total purse: $54,000

If you told Ezy he had to pay $54,000 per round to have a season of Catalunyas, what do you think he would say?
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I think it would raise viewership and create more revenue than expenditures. It would certainly rejuvenate viewership if successful, and since getting riders to collaborate together is difficult, the program would only be successful at random events. It would be nearly impossible to detect.

What's the worst that could happen? If the program payout is too low the racing continues as is. If needed DORNA could raise the quantities to elicit participation. If the program becomes detectable they can vary the number of riders eligible at each event.

Someday way down the road, someone will reveal the secret plan. If history is any indicator, the fans won't care for the same reasons they don't care that riders from key markets get boosted onto good equipment by the governing body.

As an unintended consequence, maybe the top factories would pay the top riders less and expect them to earn close-racing contingency money.
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The obvious ulterior motive is to cement the support of the IRTA. If DORNA can get the IRTA in their back pocket, they can do whatever they want with the sport b/c DORNA casts all tie-breaker votes. They've already cut costs and implemented the rookie rule. Why not pay the riders for their support? It would be a max payout of only 4 or 5 million dollars for the season
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Why am I asking you if DORNA should implement a secret plan? Because that's what I would do if I were in Ezy's shoes
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Catalunya was like a junky's first hit. Ezy had better keep us supplied or we will kick his old Spanish ... straight to FOTA!
 
No.

Simply put, to implement any system whereby people are paid in order to achieve close results immediately indicates a manufactured result and opens up corruption opportunities for the less scrupulous.

Again, No.






Garry
 
I didn't read your post but from the bits I did skim through, it sounded pretty absurd. Even for the Lex Files (which I am a known fan of).
 
Besides what everyone else said, compared to what they're raking in, that's going to be chump change. Even Guintoli, kicked out of MGP and into BSB can afford a new Lamborghini, let alone Rossi.

The risk of giving your rival the chance to take your position isn't worth some loose change.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Jun 15 2009, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why is Jorge's pay larger than that of Vale?

I don't see it happening, the secret plan I mean.

Jorge lead more laps I guess. I could have made a Maybe Rossi is supposed to be slightly more than Lorenzo. One way or another, those payouts are pretty close.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jun 15 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I didn't read your post but from the bits I did skim through, it sounded pretty absurd. Even for the Lex Files (which I am a known fan of).

Of course it's absurd.
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But it's meant to stimulate the mind.

The rookie rule is also absurd. The 1 bike rule is absurd. The engine rule (5 engines for the last 7 races) is absurd, and a blow up resulting from the rule might decide the championship which is also completely absurd. The sometimes one-make tire and sometimes control tire is completely absurd.

This sport is utterly ludicrous but the pastime upon which it is based is 100% genuine so people will always love GP.

The question is whether or not another absurd program would actually be beneficial for fans, riders, manufacturers, and DORNA alike?

Would the prototype tire war have been saved if they had implemented this plan? Would the governing body be trying to outlaw various types of useful electronics? Would engine life be improved?

Back in the day, riders would routinely posted moderately fast laps to save the tires and fuel for a late surge. The 800s have made passing more difficult so the leader always tries to win it on the first lap. If DORNA can alter those incentives, would GP be better off?
 
I like the part where you said "IF" it happens. You don't have to "setup" races to make it like WWF or something. You just throw the bone out there and let the riders and teams decide if it's worth it. I am guessing that most would still check out if they could.

Besides the Rossi boppers on here have always claimed that he would hold back (pre 800 cc days) just to make it interesting and play with the other riders. Under this plan he would be rewarded for his skill and craftiness
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Only 4 Yamahas in 2010

Quote from the motogpmatters.com article:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Much has been said on the subject of the need for more machines on the MotoGP grid, but despite all the plans and hopes of the FIM and Dorna, the entry remains stubbornly close to the 18 bikes believed to be the minimum number guaranteed by Dorna as part of the deal with the FIM to organize the championship. Dorna has consistently pressured all of the manufacturers to provide more bikes, pressure which the manufacturers stubbornly continue to resist.

Tech 3 ran out of money a long time ago, even in the 990 days when the sport was cheap they had to run Dunlops to make ends meet.

Last year, they showed up with shiny new bikes and Michelin tires, but they had NO title sponsor.

This season Dorna hooked Gibby up with Equitorial Guinea sponsor but the FIM allegedly shot it down before the season began b/c sponsorship from an unscrupulous state enterprise was not an appropriate sponsor for the sport. Ezy went out and secured a deal with Francisco Hernando Group.

Also, don't forget that Dorna signed a deal with DeWalt, but DeWalt is no where to be seen this year. If Dorna aren't suing their pants off in court, it means that DORNA breached by failing to deliver (probably in terms of bikes on the grid or factories on the grid) and DeWalt pulled out.

I think it's obvious that DORNA are paying a pretty penny to keep the wheels on this sport. Ezy is spending a majority of his time trying to hook sponsors like San Carlo and Monster Energy up with the satellite teams so they can get off of the DORNA dole.

I think MotoGP is in more dire straights than people know. The only way out of this mess is to raise viewership. Obviously, a few more Catalunyas before the end of the year would drastically lift the sport's prospects moving forward.

All of Dorna's new rules were done simply to keep the sport running. Now they need a comprehensive program for producing closer racing.

My idea is perhaps ludicrous
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, but it seems like DORNA must do something unconventional very soon so they can build momentum off of the overwhelming success at Catalunya.
 
Obviously you aren't suggesting rigging the races, but surely there are ways to increase viewership in the series without compromising its integrity. The most common suggestion is not likely to happen, as Dorna would have to swallow their pride and repeal fuel limitations and perhaps revert to the 990s. That's my personal opinion on how to fix the situation, anyways. The 990s will likely never return, but unlimited fuel could really go a long ways.
 
I've been thinking...................I know it's dangerous.

Anyway, while I do think close racing in the premier class is important and I do think MotoGP is in dire straights, Dorna has an ace up its sleeve.

Moto2

Dorna have just secured a 41 rider grid and interest in the new class is going to be massive from a viewership standpoint. I rarely ever watch the 250s, but I will definitely watch Moto2 with great interest.

If the hype whirl wind continues to circulate around Moto2, it may end up bringing much needed revenue that can be siphoned into MotoGP.
 
Lex, are you in any way related to Humpy Wheeler?
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For all the Euro fans: Wheeler is the legendary former promoter of Charlotte Motor Speedway. He epitomized NASCAR's P.T. Barnum/ WWF approach to racing, which is to simply make it entertaining (authenticity be damned!). Wheeler once determined starting positions for "The Winston," now the NASCAR all star race, by drawing numbers out of a bingo wheel!

That said, the world's racing championships aren't necesarily 100% honest and authentic above NASCAR. I think the stock car series is simply more up front about it in most cases. For example, Rossi/Dorna strong-arming Bridgestone, the FIA's Ferrari favoritism, and the diesel rules and homologation for Le Mans Prototypes are all pretty manipulative.

But no, I don't like this rule. Let the race play out. What's the point of running 25 or so laps if the riders are supposed to stay in touch until the last few laps? Just run a five-lap shootout. This goes back to the discussion of the convenient full course yellow in the Daytona 200. Why run 200 miles if the bulk of the riders' previous work is to be nullified?

This rule could favor factories anyway. Would the Gresinis and LCRs stay together, gunning for the paycheck, while the factories run off in the distance, their marketing goals taking precedence over prize money?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Jun 17 2009, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lex, are you in any way related to Humpy Wheeler?
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No, but I do love coming up with absurd unconventional ideas.
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What's not authentic? They are only changing how much the riders get paid. Furthermore, the riders aren't required to participate, but if the plan didn't work DORNA could introduce onerous fines for riders who won by too much.
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Imagine you found out that Catalunya was rigged to be close, but that the governing body didn't have any control over the outcome. Would it have been any less exciting? Would Rossi have been any less amazing? I really don't think people want authenticity at all, they want anticipation of an major event.

Maybe my plan is too complicated how about this:

The winning rider gets a bonus based upon when the pass for the lead happens. Let's say they get $0 for the first ten laps, $10,000 for the next ten laps, and $20,000 for every lap after that. A pass on the last lap doubles the purse, and a pass on the last corner quadruples the purse.


Let's see. Rossi passed on lap 25 in the last corner, so that would be:

(($0x10)+(10,000x10)+(20,000x5)x4)= $800,000

He's worth every damn penny.
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If Lorenzo had won, he would have raked in $400,000 also worth every penny
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The obvious unintended consequence would be that EVERY good rider would be sandbagging in practice just like the 990 days.
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Whatever happened to the good old days, when the fastest riders didn't give the entire paddock a performance benchmark? Posting the fastest times isn't demoralizing, it lets other teams know how fast they need to go and it gives them a chance to stifle your race day strategy (e.g. Laguna Seca 2008). Personally, I think nearly ALL of Ducati's competitive advantage evaporated because Stoner tipped their hand to the entire planet. When 2008 rolled around, he found out that someone had taken away his toys and other teams had used the off season to develop their bikes and change tire manufacturers.

Oops.

Somebody must get these unwise children under control.
 
Bribing Lorenzo with 50g's is like bribing you with 1 cent. You are in denial. Motogp is pretty good and getting better in direct contrast to the naysayers.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jun 17 2009, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Bribing Lorenzo with 50g's is like bribing you with 1 cent. You are in denial. Motogp is pretty good and getting better in direct contrast to the naysayers.

Negative.

07 was better than 08 and 08 was better than 09 until Catalunya came along.
 

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