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Rossi: Electronic aids make bikes boring

Joined Jun 2006
2K Posts | 20+
south wales UK
LINKY: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71809


Eight-times world champion Valentino Rossi has blamed the increasing reliance on electronic aids in MotoGP as a key reason for the lack of wheel-to-wheel racing in 2008.

The Yamaha rider described the latest generation of 800cc bikes as 'boring' compared to their predecessors and that while other factors played their part, the ease at which they could be ridden on the limit was a contributing factor in creating processional races like the series finale at Valencia last weekend.

"For sure the 800cc is a more boring bike compared to the 990cc: there's too much electronics," he told Italian magazine Motosprint. "Now, if the electronics work well the bikes become almost perfect and the gaps increase, instead of reduce."

"The [Valencia] track is to blame too, because at no point you can take alternative lines, so you end up lining up one behind the other."

Asked to comment on the fact that it has been two years since there had been a last-lap lead change in a sport that prides itself on close racing, Rossi said: "That's a very bad thing. It's worrying.

"I don't think the single-tyre [rule] is the solution for this problem," he added. "I repeat: the electronics are very sophisticated, the technical evolution is incredible, and next year will be even worse.

"However, there have been some good races this year, so the track counts for a lot. But tracks like Valencia are not good for the show."

Rossi added that while he believed that reducing the reliance on electronic aids such as traction control would help to solve the problem, he didn't believe that it was likely to happen in the near future.

"These engines are designed considering the electronics, so the power output can afford to be aggressive because there are these systems helping out anyway," he said. "We'd need a smoother power output, to the detriment of power, but the engineers don't even want to hear that!

"So these days you can be aggressive, without being precise with the gas, because electronics helps you out anyway."
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Oct 29 2008, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"So these days you can be aggressive, without being precise with the gas, because electronics helps you out anyway."

Throttle Control is an art form by itself... theres riders who are really good at it and riders who struggle and crash alot.

the difference between a class rider and an average one is not so big with electronics but Rossi still kicks ...
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I vote for no TC. Watch the bike spit off the riders with no throttle control. Those wicked high sides have mostly gone away. I don't want to see anyone get hurt, but they really do have too many aids to help many riders get around the track these days.
 
Hmmm I wonder where all the prototype fanatics are on this forum. Anytime a member brings up this topic its always about prototype vs the spectical. It's hard to argue against someone of Rossi's stature. I will continue to watch MOTOGP but only because I am a die hard. MOTOGP will lose the casual fan and I would argue that they amount for far more fans than the die hards. I don't know but I am guessing that these casual fans will slowly migrate to the spectacle of WSBK or some other form of excitement because the racing really is boring. And Rossi believes we are in for more of the same next year.
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Maybe Ben Spies knew what he was doing when he went to WSBK
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Does anyone think it's good that Honda suck?

I mean that in 2 ways. 1) They are the evil empire and I'm glad they've gotten their come-uppins for changing the sport to 800s. 2) the comfort of a 990 V5 is just 1 technical committee vote away.

I know Yamaha and Ducati might not be eager to go back, but you can almost guarantee that Suzuki and Kawasaki would swing the vote in favor of Honda.

BRING BACK THE 990s!
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Well complain as he may about why Valencia was bad ...... he didn't complain about the winning races .

I think he is just trying to copy Stoner with this article ie. ..... he is whinging even though he won the championship! ........ which is just ike Stoner ( as all the Rossi fans complain ) ...... which was just like Doohan ( apparently ) ...... which is why Stoner is the next Doohan ...... and now Rossi is trying to be Stoner
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One thing in Rossi's favour though .... he was the first guy to get anything new in electronics in motGP so he still has the jump on everyone else regardless of wheter he likes the electronics or not.
 
To throw another slant on it.

He says that the electronics contribute to processional racing at some circuits such as Valencia (I am paraphrasing a bit).

So, why not keep the electronics, increase the fuel limit and not race at the type of circuits whereby the effect of electronics is magnified.

As for the throttle control argument, that is (IMO) a bit old hat as all of these riders have throttle control but have learnt to ignore their 'natural' instincts and instead twist the throttle and trust the electronics. If electronics were to go, you would still see the cream at the top just as it was in 2007/2008 etc.




Garry
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 30 2008, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for the throttle control argument, that is (IMO) a bit old hat as all of these riders have throttle control but have learnt to ignore their 'natural' instincts and instead twist the throttle and trust the electronics. If electronics were to go, you would still see the cream at the top just as it was in 2007/2008 etc.

Casey up until 06 didn't win anything major... not saying he wouldn't have matured into a good rider but i doubt the Ducati would be able to win without some help from the electronics (its a beast of a bike)

Then theres riders like De Puniet, would he even be in MotoGP if it wasn't for electronics and he still manages 10 crashes a season!

Then theres Hayden who would rightly rather use his 'natural' instincts to control the bike than get his ... kicked by inferior riders.

Rossi is one of the few riders in this crop who you cannot doubt can ride the bike exceptionally with or without electronics.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Oct 30 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Casey up until 06 didn't win anything major... not saying he wouldn't have matured into a good rider but i doubt the Ducati would be able to win without some help from the electronics (its a beast of a bike)

Then theres riders like De Puniet, would he even be in MotoGP if it wasn't for electronics and he still manages 10 crashes a season!

Then theres Hayden who would rightly rather use his 'natural' instincts to control the bike than get his ... kicked by inferior riders.

Rossi is one of the few riders in this crop who you cannot doubt can ride the bike exceptionally with or without electronics.
Stoner doesn't use TC on qualifying tyres...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Oct 30 2008, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi is one of the few riders in this crop who you cannot doubt can ride the bike exceptionally with or without electronics.

When did he last not ride without electronics aids? I think you are very mistaken.

But I still think he will be one of the riders at the fore even without electronics. I don't think there is as much import, on electronics, as many say.

Who do you expect would show a drastic change in performance with no electronics and why?

I think there is still some of the absolutely sill idea that "its the electronics not Stoner" going around even though we had such graphic demonstrations as Melandri's season ......... or are you saying not only do electronics help bad riders .... but distract from good riders?

Now Hayden comes and and confirms .... "the Ducati is an animal" ....... doesn't sound very "tamed by electronics" to me .....

Bit of a funny thread really ...... last year it was "the Ducati is so tame and easy to ride even Stoner can win on it" ......... now we have a thread "Hayden can tame the beast"! ....
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 29 2008, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When did he last not ride without electronics aids? I think you are very mistaken.

500cc two strokes 'Last of the Mohicans' Champion rings a bell!
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So no mistake from an4rew there!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 29 2008, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But I still think he will be one of the riders at the fore even without electronics. I don't think there is as much import, on electronics, as many say.

Who do you expect would show a drastic change in performance with no electronics and why?

Most of the kids, because it was the difference that made 'men from boys'… So as Rossi has proved repeatedly, he would be at top spots, and I believe 'Podium late year comers' would turn into midfielders!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 29 2008, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think there is still some of the absolutely sill idea that "its the electronics not Stoner" going around even though we had such graphic demonstrations as Melandri's season ......... or are you saying not only do electronics help bad riders .... but distract from good riders?

Not only 'Electronics'… but Melandri just did not adapt to the team as a whole!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 29 2008, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Now Hayden comes and and confirms .... "the Ducati is an animal" ....... doesn't sound very "tamed by electronics" to me .....

The Ducati is an animal tamed by electronics, but not to its whole!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 29 2008, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Bit of a funny thread really ...... last year it was "the Ducati is so tame and easy to ride even Stoner can win on it" ......... now we have a thread "Hayden can tame the beast"! ....

A bit more to Hayden's riding style than a tiny ultra Honda!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Oct 30 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Casey up until 06 didn't win anything major... not saying he wouldn't have matured into a good rider but i doubt the Ducati would be able to win without some help from the electronics (its a beast of a bike)

Then theres riders like De Puniet, would he even be in MotoGP if it wasn't for electronics and he still manages 10 crashes a season!

Then theres Hayden who would rightly rather use his 'natural' instincts to control the bike than get his ... kicked by inferior riders.

Rossi is one of the few riders in this crop who you cannot doubt can ride the bike exceptionally with or without electronics.

I've seen good posts from you but that is complete populist rubbish. For what its worth Casey has said repeatedly that he would rather race a factory 990, more so a 500 two stroke.

The problem with the average rider theory on the Ducati is just that, there have been a lot of really average riders on it. Not the remote control miracle of 2007 that it never actually was...Marco butchered that theory and so many people predicted the world championship for him in 2008.

Casey has said repeatedly that he uses next to no TC. This has been argued out so many times. Shame on you for running with old wives tales.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Oct 30 2008, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner doesn't use TC on qualifying tyres...

And without TC he is just so slow...in his BMW
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 30 2008, 05:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>500cc two strokes 'Last of the Mohicans' Champion rings a bell!
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So no mistake from an4rew there!


With respects, that proves nothing other than he won a world title on the 500cc two stroke, something only Capirossi and Hopkins (of the current field) have had the opportunity to achieve. No small feat, but in terms of current situation his win on the 500 is irrelevant (for this argument).

But, lets just throw it around a little.

If your argument is correct and to take another slant, does it then mean that he has won 5 world titles whilst using the very electronics often complained about?

So, if the 'y0oungsters' are deemed as not having the throttle control to win on a four stroke MotoGP bike, what proof do we have that Rossi has the same throttle control as his entire four stroke career has involved electronics to some degree.

Now, before you or anyone else jump to conclusions about my allegiances I would refer back to my earlier post where I have no doubt that with or without electronics the cream rises and VR is the creamiest of the cream, so I am not doubting him. But, I am asking why doubt others when VR has not yet proved himself (poor choice of wording on my part) without the very same electronic aids.

Basically, he has proven himself to be the best and most adaptable user of the electronics in the four stroke era, that cannot be questioned as 5 WC's in that time prove it.





Garry
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 30 2008, 03:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who do you expect would show a drastic change in performance with no electronics and why?

The riders who can't adapt of course. As the electronics have become more sophisticated all the riders have to adapt. Rossi lost a couple of championships getting his head around it and Hayden just got left behind. Tat isn't to say that "inferior" riders beat them, just that as the circumstances changed not all riders were able to cope equally well.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 30 2008, 03:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>With respects, that proves nothing other than he won a world title on the 500cc two stroke, something only Capirossi and Hopkins (of the current field) have had the opportunity to achieve. No small feat, but in terms of current situation his win on the 500 is irrelevant (for this argument).Should add euther Sete or Shinya/West to that list, depending on whether you mean next season's or last season's field.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Oct 29 2008, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi is one of the few riders in this crop who you cannot doubt can ride the bike exceptionally with or without electronics.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 29 2008, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When did he last not ride without electronics aids? I think you are very mistaken.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 29 2008, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>500cc two strokes 'Last of the Mohicans' Champion rings a bell! (This one was I).

Sorry but I understood we were talking about "who can do it with NO 'electronics' from today's Bikes". Rossi did it with barely 'Electronics' on 500cc 2 Strokes. Rossi did it with more 'Electronics' on 990cc 4 Strokes. Rossi has done it with too many 'Electronics' on 800cc 4 Strokes. I was just answering your question. Therefore, doubt will prevail for other Riders as long as they do not prove otherwise!

In fact, the best way to get rid of the 'It's The Bike not the Rider' Theory has already been already established (again by 'The Doctor'!). Let's see when and which Riders will, in order of relevance, dear change a winning package for a losing one and transform it? Pedrosa can take with him Puig, Stoner can take with him Suppo, may Hayden do the same. Lorenzo and Dovizioso may in the near future!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 30 2008, 08:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In fact, the best way to get rid of the 'It's The Bike not the Rider' Theory has already been already established (again by 'The Doctor'!). Let's see when and which Riders will, in order of relevance, dear change a winning package for a loosing one and transform it? Pedrosa can take with him Puig, Stoner can take with him Suppo, may Hayden do the same. Lorenzo and Dovizioso may in the near future!
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Well, stoner left (the poor man's version of) the championship-winning bike from his rookie year and immediately dominated on the Ducati. Not that that's at all what you meant, but it does loosely fit within those bounds.
 

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