Questions about the status of LEGEND in GP.

easy....your name has to be on THIS list MULTIPLE times...not just once or twice.



2007 27 Casey STONER (AUS), Ducati Desmosedici GP07 Moto GP (800cc)
2006 69 Nicky HAYDEN (USA), Honda RC211V Moto GP (990cc)
2005 46 Valentino ROSSI (ITA), Yamaha YZR-M1 Moto GP (990cc)
2004 46 Valentino ROSSI (ITA), Yamaha YZR-M1 Moto GP (990cc)
2003 46 Valentino ROSSI (ITA), Honda RC211V Moto GP (990cc)
2002 46 Valentino ROSSI (ITA), Honda RC211V Moto GP (990cc)
2001 46 Valentino ROSSI (ITA), Honda NSR500 GP 500
2000 2 Kenny ROBERTS Jr. (USA), Suzuki RGV500 GP 500
1999 3 Alex CRIVILLE (SPA), Honda NSR500 GP 500
1998 1 Mick DOOHAN (AUS), Honda NSR500 GP 500
1997 1 Mick DOOHAN (AUS), Honda NSR500 GP 500
1996 1 Mick DOOHAN (AUS), Honda NSR500 GP 500
1995 1 Mick DOOHAN (AUS), Honda NSR500 GP 500
1994 4 Mick DOOHAN (AUS), Honda NSR500 GP 500
1993 34 Kevin SCHWANTZ (USA), Suzuki RGV500 GP 500
1992 1 Wayne RAINEY (USA), Yamaha YZR500 GP 500
1991 1 Wayne RAINEY (USA), Yamaha YZR500 GP 500
1990 2 Wayne RAINEY (USA), Yamaha YZR500 GP 500
1989 1 Eddie LAWSON (USA), Honda NSR500 GP 500
1988 3 Eddie LAWSON (USA), Yamaha YZR500 GP 500
1987 2 Wayne GARDNER (AUS), Honda NSR500 GP 500
1986 2 Eddie LAWSON (USA), Yamaha YZR500 GP 500
1985 4 Freddie SPENCER (USA), Honda NSR500 GP 500
1984 4 Eddie LAWSON (USA), Yamaha YZR500 GP 500
1983 3 Freddie SPENCER (USA), Honda NS500 GP 500
1982 # Franco UNCINI (ITA), Suzuki RG500 GP 500
1981 # Marco LUCCHINELLI (ITA), Suzuki RG500 GP 500
1980 1 Kenny ROBERTS (USA), Yamaha YZR500 GP 500
1979 1 Kenny ROBERTS (USA), Yamaha YZR500 GP 500
1978 2 Kenny ROBERTS (USA), Yamaha YZR500 GP 500
1977 7 Barry SHEENE (GBR), Suzuki RG500 GP 500
1976 7 Barry SHEENE (GBR), Suzuki RG500 GP 500
1975 4 Giacomo AGOSTINI (ITA), Yamaha YZR500 GP 500
1974 # Phil READ (GBR), MV Agusta GP 500
1973 # Phil READ (GBR), MV Agusta GP 500
1972 # Giacomo AGOSTINI (ITA), MV Agusta GP 500
1971 # Giacomo AGOSTINI (ITA), MV Agusta GP 500
1970 # Giacomo AGOSTINI (ITA), MV Agusta GP 500
1969 # Giacomo AGOSTINI (ITA), MV Agusta GP 500
1968 # Giacomo AGOSTINI (ITA), MV Agusta GP 500
1967 # Giacomo AGOSTINI (ITA), MV Agusta GP 500
1966 # Giacomo AGOSTINI (ITA), MV Agusta GP 500
1965 # Mike HAILWOOD (GBR), MV Agusta GP 500
1964 # Mike HAILWOOD (GBR), MV Agusta GP 500
1963 # Mike HAILWOOD (GBR), MV Agusta GP 500
1962 # Mike HAILWOOD (GBR), MV Agusta GP 500
1961 # Gary HOCKING (GBR), MV Agusta GP 500
1960 # John SURTEES (GBR), MV Agusta GP 500
1959 # John SURTEES (GBR), MV Agusta GP 500
1958 # John SURTEES (GBR), MV Agusta GP 500
1957 # Libero LIBERATI (ITA), Gilera GP 500
1956 # John SURTEES (GBR), MV Agusta GP 500
1955 # Geoff DUKE (GBR), Gilera GP 500
1954 # Geoff DUKE (GBR), Gilera GP 500
1953 # Geoff DUKE (GBR), Gilera GP 500
1952 # Umberto MASETTI (ITA), Gilera GP 500
1951 # Geoff DUKE (GBR), Norton GP 500
1950 # Umberto MASETTI (ITA), Gilera GP 500
1949 # Leslie GRAHAM (GBR), AJS "Porcupine" GP 500

hahaha you guys!!!


just take a momentary look at that list again guys .... then tell me they aren't all legends!!!

Maybe to make it more obvious to you, someone should post a list of all the GP riders in that time .... then to make it more obvious, a list of all racers in the world since then!!!

questions:

What do you consider to be, or how do you define legendary status in MotoGP?

someone who nearly everybody around the world has heard of, including granmar who does not follow the sport.

Do you consider the new world champion Casey Stoner to be a ‘legend’? Why?

no, not even close yet.

Can you think of some racers that could be considered legends in MotoGP that have won only one or zero championships?

no, only barry sheene but he won 2.

Are lower class GP/national championships considered in your estimation of what makes a 'legend' at the MotoGP level?

not in my country, but 125s and 250s are followed with more passion else where

Are there any multiple champions that are not considered ‘legends’?

not in the the way i would define "legend"
there are legends nown only to people who follow motogp and there are legends like sheene and rossi who are a house hold name's ie everybody nows who they are.

I think it depends on exactly where your standing on the planet when you decide what a legend is.Wayne Gardner has 1 title but he is a legend in Australia,Schwantz is a legend in the US and im sure other places and has 1 title.Casey is a legend right now in Australia but the rest of the world is in a wait and see mode.Same with Nicky here in the States.Rossi,Doohan,Rainey,Roberts,Spencer,Agostini,Hailwood,Lawson, ,etc,[im sure i forgot someone]are no brainer legends to anyone who ever watched Gp.In 58 years,22 guys on the planet have achieved the title of Moto GP World Champion.That to me makes every last one of them special if not legendary

A legend is someone who dominates their game, leaves a big mark.

The only legend i don't like is Honda love child Doohan taking nothing away from his achievements he was boring to watch.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xx CURVE xx @ Oct 3 2007, 05:28 PM) [snapback]93694[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
easy....your name has to be on THIS list MULTIPLE times...not just once or twice.


I agree; legend status for stoner or hayden awaits further achievement by them.

I am however coming around to racejumkie's point of view on schwantz who
only won one world title and probably would not have won this without injuries to doohan and rainey. He won 25 races against the likes of lawson, rainey and doohan by wringing the neck of his suzuki which was always a significantly inferior bike.

A legend is someone who leaves their mark on the sport and is talked about way into the future. He doesn't necessarily have to win a championship at all. Case in point Randy Mamola.
Casey Stone, whilst not a legend yet, IMO, will probably go down as one (in a lot of people's eyes) even if he doesnt win another one, simply for the fact he's the first ducati world champ and the first to win on a non jap machine in 30 odd years.
I think anyone who has won more than 1 title in the top class will go down as a legend for the sheer fact that it's so hard to do.
As for single championship winners, in Australia I think most people would consider Wayne Gardner a legend for his sheer tenacity and the fact he was our first world champion.
Out of that list out of all the winners I've seen since 1986 (besides Hayden and Stoner as they are still young and have time to reach legendary status), I would leave out Criville and Roberts. The rest are legends definately.
I think lower classes can count but you've got to win at least a lot of races in the top class as well to be considered.
And where will Max fit into this equation? A definate legend on a 250 but in the top class didn't do enough IMO.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 4 2007, 09:29 AM) [snapback]93754[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>


The only legend i don't like is Honda love child Doohan taking nothing away from his achievements he was boring to watch.

Why was Doohan boring to watch? The way he could ride a 500cc stroker could never be boring. Boring cause he flogged the opposition time and again?

Ah well, may as well throw my bit in.


What do you consider to be, or how do you define legendary status in MotoGP?
For me a 'legend' is someone who leaves an indelible mark on the sport by having achieved high results over a sustained length of time and often against adversity.
It is someone talked of in awe in terms of their presence and ability.
But in all fairness for me there are many more aspects that those I have listed that make a legend and I am one who uses that word very sparingly and judges hard.

Do you consider the new world champion Casey Stoner to be a ‘legend’? Why?
I do not consider Casey to be a legend yet but do consider him to be very good and something a little 'special' and very potentially on his way to greater things, but only time will tell if he is a legend.

Can you think of some racers that could be considered legends in MotoGP that have won only one or zero championships?
I am uncertain with Schwantz but readily recognise why so many consider him in the legendary class.
Mamola I would consider great, very good but not in the class of legendary by my definition.
Of the more recent riders I would go close with Max as for me a legend does not have to be from the MotoGP/500cc class and Max was purely sensation in the 250GP. For me I would call Max a legend of the 250GP class, just as I consider Jorge Martinez a legend in the tiddler classes.

Are lower class GP/national championships considered in your estimation of what makes a 'legend' at the MotoGP level?

Yes, refer above.
For me there are different levels of greatness or legendary status and each has to be marked individually within the classes in which they competed. But, for me it would be rare to bestow the term legendary on someone who has not achieved results in the international arena.

Are there any multiple champions that are not considered ‘legends’?
Definitely, but primarily due to me being a harsh marker and my definitions of legendary which would differ greatly from many.
One only has to look at the 'other' thread to get an idea that peoples opinion of legendary varies and that is what makes for good discussion.





Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Son of Doohan @ Oct 4 2007, 05:01 AM) [snapback]93765[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
And where will Max fit into this equation? A definate legend on a 250 but in the top class didn't do enough IMO.That's a great point & the same goes for Capirossi.

I also think Gibernau was very memorable, he certainly was there during some legendary battles.

Schwantz is the only 1 time winner who is a legend. With 25 wins he has more than other multiple champs and he accomplished that tally on a Suzuki in the Lawson/Rainey era.

Spencer is a legend too. Youngest champ ever, first win for Honda, only man to win the 250 and 500 GP class in the same season. Not only that, he is the only man to recapture a title from Lawson.

Who's not a legend. Sheene.

I'm sorry but he's famous for being the last British champ. He won twice when Ago packed it in, then he got his ... handed to him by King Kenny. Besides that, he is the only person cockeyed enough to say throttle steering is a myth after Kenny wiped the floor with him and American dirt trackers won nearly every title for a decade and a half.

I dunno. Maybe I'm being unfair, he did invent the back protector. Perhaps that's good enough to be a legend.

Nicky is not a legend either. It kills me to say that, b/c if he had switched to Duc this season he would be half way to being the new lawson, and 2/3 of the way to being Rainey or KR. The only way he'll be a legend now is to make 3 championships or do something of notoriety his second go round.

Stoner is not a legend; however, if he posts another 8 or 9 wins next season I think he is a legend. If he can do that he'll be first 800cc champ, first Duc champ, first back to back Duc champ, and he'll have notched 16-20 wins in two seasons!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Oct 3 2007, 06:17 PM) [snapback]93693[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I guess it’s how you define the word LEGEND. I for one attribute the title ‘legend’ to a racer in GP as somebody who had a lasting impact, one who was a great of the sport whos presence is talked about well beyond their time as a racer, one who may or may not have won multiple championships (though this certainly helps) as well as somebody who had longevity at a high level, and somebody who accomplished something significant/noteworthy in the sport.

I don’t really think Casey is ‘legendary’ (nor Hayden for that matter, yes, I know, and I’m a huge Nicky fan) simply because they haven’t had ‘longevity’ yet. Even though both have won a MotoGP championship, and will forever be among a few elite group of racers that have achieved this splendid feat, still they simply haven’t been in the sport long enough in my opinion to have ‘legend’ status.
Then there are those riders that have never won a championship or only won one who I do consider to be ‘legends’ of the sport. One name that for sure is an absolute ‘legend’ of the sport is Kevin Schwantz. Yes he only won one championship, however, he was runner up several times, considering the machine he rode (Suzuki). He won many GP races, sometime even having more wins in the same year than the rider who won the title. He certainly had ‘longevity’ racing for over a decade and against arguably the best generation of racers ever in the history of the sport past and present.

However, there are other riders that I think can be considered as a ‘legend’ of the sport without having won a championship. The name that comes to mind is Randy Mamola. He came runner up several times and presently has the most wins and podiums of any non-title holder. He has more wins and podiums than some champions. Mamola also had many years of racing which would suffice a considerable ‘longevity’ to have made an impact on the racing. His career has also made a significant impact by virtue of his continued association of the sport as a writer and commentator.

I thought of making this a thread topic because I read on another thread a member saying Stoner is a “legend” but did not consider Mick Doohan to be a “legend” because there was an absence of significant competition during his years. Even though I strongly disagree, it does seem something to consider; moreover, we all have a right to our opinions, though that doesn’t mean the opinion is truth or near truth. So I pose the question to you:
So here are a few questions:

What do you consider to be, or how do you define legendary status in MotoGP?

Do you consider the new world champion Casey Stoner to be a ‘legend’? Why?

Can you think of some racers that could be considered legends in MotoGP that have won only one or zero championships?

Are lower class GP/national championships considered in your estimation of what makes a 'legend' at the MotoGP level?

Are there any multiple champions that are not considered ‘legends’?

Your thoughts…


Like you said its the impact they have.

Barry Sheene is a legend
Kevin Schwantz is a legend
Rossi is of course a legend

To me at least, Stoner most certainly is not on this list yet. But things can change.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Oct 4 2007, 08:25 PM) [snapback]93857[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Jumkie and Tom, friends for life!


Perhaps, start a topic about him as a rider and things will swing back the other way.

Schwantz is my all time favourite and I spoke to him on the 'phone this year when he was in the Isle of Man. As his race number is the only number to have been officially retired it seems people in higher places than us also think he's a legend. No other one time world champ has ever come close to the 'legend' status.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Oct 4 2007, 07:16 PM) [snapback]93844[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

Who's not a legend. Sheene.


tell me your joking.
my great gran has never watched a race in her life, she has not even got a tv but she nows who sheene is and what he did. now if that aint legendary status i dont now what is !!

Without anything else, Sheene's return to action after both Daytona '75 & Silverstone '82 crashes, make him a legend.

What do you consider to be, or how do you define legendary status in MotoGP?
Legend is someone that will be remembered long into the future. I hate to say it, but the only reason people will remember KRJR into long into the future is because of this father's name and not his 2000 title. I also hate to say it, but Haydens 2006 title will be more remembered for Rossi and Yamaha blowing it and not for Hayden consistency. If Hayden ends up closer to 10th in this season than 5th then he is in danger of become another KRJR.

Do you consider the new world champion Casey Stoner to be a ‘legend’? Why?
Yes and No, Casey will be remembered for his 2007 performance long into the future. However, unless he put in a top 3 fight next year then 2007 will be a seen and remembered as a fluke of bike and tyres.

Can you think of some racers that could be considered legends in MotoGP that have won only one or zero championships?
Mamola is the obvious one for never wining it, but always being a there....Capirossi, Barros, Gibernau, and Definitely Biaggi.


Are lower class GP/national championships considered in your estimation of what makes a 'legend' at the MotoGP level?
Yes, Angel Nieto and Max Biaggi ... Legend in the little classes....I also think Pedrosa will end up in this category as well.

Are there any multiple champions that are not considered ‘legends’?Nope!

So here are a few questions:

What do you consider to be, or how do you define legendary status in MotoGP?
Someone who has staying power, is known everywhere as someone else said, shows they can win on superior and inferior machinery.

Do you consider the new world champion Casey Stoner to be a ‘legend’? Why?
No. What stoner has done is impressive and he is a good rider. However, it cant be denied that this has been an unusual year in moto gp with riders performances due to tyres/bikes. Im not saying this has applied in every race but it has DEFINATELY affected results. If Stoner shows in the future that once the playing field is levelled out then i will consider my opinion again.

Can you think of some racers that could be considered legends in MotoGP that have won only one or zero championships?

I think that capirossi should deserve some credit, not necessary legend status but considering the bridgestone tyres could be fab one race and rubbish the next i think he has done well with the bike. You have to remember stoners bike now will have had a lot of input from capirossi over the years.

Are lower class GP/national championships considered in your estimation of what makes a 'legend' at the MotoGP level?

I think that its harder to win a race in 125s/250s due to the fact there are so many more riders so i think to even get multiple wins in 125s is impressive considering there are often 6/7 competing for 1st.

Are there any champions that are not considered ‘legends’?Personally i dont think hayden is a legend - yes he did well last year but when you ask yourself
1 - did he produce stunning races
2 - was he constantly battling for 1st?
i think the answer is no.

I think its worth considering the point that when you get a rider in moto gp or any sport who is particularly dominant like rossi it puts a lot of other people in the shadows. I think if rossi hadnt been in moto gp the last few years rather than another rider have consistent championships there would just have been multiple world champions eg. gibernau, capirossi, biaggi maybe and hayden.